Will Baseball ever strike out?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-10-06 02:52pm

My dad is a HUGE baseball fan, this is the time of year that he sits in front of the TV and does not move as he sits revited by the action on screen. Personally I find baseball as exciting as reading through the Darkstar/Wong debate. My brother is pretty much of the same opinion and sometimes I feel sorry for him because his kids weren't the fanatics that he is. When he tries to talk baseball to me I try and fake it as best I can and fail miserably.

Anyway, I've noticed that baseball seems to strike many people in my age group and younger as dull and slow moving. Football and Basketball's fanbase seems to grow on a yearly basis but it doesn't look that way from the baseball side. Will it ever get to the point where baseball's fanbase erodes to the point where the sport is relegated to the background of the sports page and Football or Basketball become the new National past time?

I just can't find what is so exciting about sitting there and watching a game that lasts for hours and there's very little going on screen. Very little movement like we see in Basketball.

Anyone's thoughts? I'm not bashing baseball I just wanted to get real fans' opinions unlike my disinterested self. And maybe you can tell me what's so exciting about the sport.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-10-06 03:05pm

While going to a baseball game is a nice day out, Ive never been a fan of the sport. From my perspective it is kinda slow moving. I played soccer as a kid which is always moving ( from a players perspective ) and as an adult I played Badminton quite a bit. (very fast moving for people who have really played it)

I keep wondering why the fans go back to baseball when the players act like spoiled brats most of the time. I think this is true in many professional sports. Id like to say that high school sports are better, but then you get parents acting like brats.

My dad likes to watch football but never has he expected me to join him. My dad always let me do my own thing.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-06 03:09pm

I enjoy watching baseball, but college football is my obsession (as if you didn't already know that).

I don't think baseball will be going away anytime soon, which is a good thing. Another pointless players' strike might do the trick, though (in which case I would never watch a game again).

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-10-06 03:31pm

You're right in that baseball is losing popularity (personally I don't care for it as much as, say, hockey or football), but basketball is also hurting for fans, right now. Apparently the low scoring games and the lack of a Michael Jordan is crippling their fan base. Strangely enough, GOLF is one of the sports that is rapidly gaining fans. Tiger Woods has popularized the image of the game, and has exercised a TREMENDOUS pull on the general population.

While baseball won't be going away anytime soon, I think it's going to have trouble retaining its fanbase in the next 20 or so years. Durran Korr is right in that another players' strike would have crippled the sport, which is part of why their recently averted walkout was such a big deal.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-10-06 04:26pm

*raises hand* That's me.

I was a Cubbie fan until the strike ten years ago. Now I could give a shit about baseball. It is nothing to me. Granted, I enjoy playing baseball. With the boys or with my boys but as for being a fan, blah.

If the spoiled fuckers had gone on strike again last year (or was it two years ago) I think it would have killed the sport. It could still happen, we'll see.

Though I could see it happening to any sport, if a strike happened in say Basketball or (god forbid) Football, then those sports will be badly hurt.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-06 06:03pm

I think baseball is also fadeing because fewer kids grow up playing it. There is much more action and less cost and sweat playing a video game version of baseball than playing the real thing. Not to mention all the other outside sports that are more fun and/or are less involved than baseball.
As team sports go soccer kicks baseball's ass when it comes to playing, not to mention the overall cost is less.

Now inline hockey is very expensive to play if you have to get all the gear but it too is much more action oriented when it comes to play.

The last year I played Little League we played I doubt we played even 40 games all summer but with that and practicing I got pretty tired of baseball. My dad was also the coach so it was like baseball all the time.

One thing I've noticed about baseball is that it seems to have designed itself for the stat freak. I mean, who cares about all the various stats and streaks and crap they come up with? The only reason to have a season as long as the current one is because of stats. How about we cut the season in half and see those guys get out there an bust their ass because every game counts that much more?

I'm disappointed that football, especially the NFL seems to be following suit in the "stat" game. It seems like they are manufacturing new stats to make "stars" out of people. I guess some of it might be an offshoot of the free agency thing since they have to have something "concrete" to base performance incentives on. They never used to keep track of sacks and I remember a few years ago when (in colleg football) Ohio State kept track of "pancake blocks" by Orlando Pace as part of the push for the Heisman trophy.

Anyway, I figure baseball will die eventually but it keeps finding things to save it. If it hadn't been for the McGuire/Sosa homerun race I doubt it would be doing as well as it is now. Barry Bonds might have given it a boost a few years later but I'm not sure it would have been as good of one as what McQuire/Sosa generated.

I'm also thinking that if this year's WS ends up being Cubs vs. Red Sox the ratings and interest in the WS will be huge. Cubs vs. Yankees would also do pretty well. If it's Marlins vs. A's I don't expect many people will watch and that should contribute to the downturn of baseball.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-06 06:19pm

Knife wrote: If the spoiled fuckers had gone on strike again last year (or was it two years ago) I think it would have killed the sport. It could still happen, we'll see.

We can only hope. Actually I'd prefer that the sport and league stick around but have to do some major retooling because of loss of support due to another strike. Make everything much more fan friendly and oriented.

I was suprised to find out that the Diamondbacks offer extremely cheap seats the day of the game. If you don't mind waiting in line they are less than $10 bucks I think. That's a bit more family friendly than some of the prices I had been hearing.

Knife wrote: Though I could see it happening to any sport, if a strike happened in say Basketball or (god forbid) Football, then those sports will be badly hurt.

At least we'll have college football (which is best anyway) and failing that there's always JC and high school football to watch.

I wouldn't mind some ego being taken out of basketball. Maybe then we see some teams play instead of a collection of hot dogging showboats. Oh wait, I forgot that the Pan American games had the US getting spanked regularly by a bunch of teams that played like teams. Unfortunately I doubt that will have much impact on the NBA. It is definately one of the sports that's been most hurt by those "Sportcenter" moments.

I'm wondering, has anyone here picked up a spectator's interest in any sport that they haven't played as a kid or aren't currently playing? Football is stll my favorite sport and I haven't played any organized version of it since grade school but as a kid we played in the backyard etc... all fall. Baseball was the same in the summer. Soccer, I mainly played in organized leagues because most of the neighbor kids didn't really play.

What I'm trying to say is that I generally don't watch any sport that I don't have a personal interest in or that I didn't grow up playing. I guess the sport I played the least but still ocassionally like watching is tennis.

I've tried to get into hockey but I just don't like the NHL. International Hockey with the larger rinks is a bit more fun since there is a lot more passing and less contact.

I still don't know why anyone fucking watches golf. It's only slightly less boring to watch than bowling and I even nominally like bowling once in a blue moon.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-06 07:29pm

The Twins have the cheapest seats in pro sports - if you go on the right night, you can get four people in for 25 bucks (not counting downtown Minneapolis parking - another five bucks - and food), and get pretty decent seats in the bargain (lower deck left field general admission). Plus if you want to trade up, it's pretty easy to do so - just wait for the fifth or sixth inning, when the ushers are starting to help people into their complementary neck braces down the first and third base lines.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-06 07:38pm

The Dome also has pretty decent beer, if you're willing to trek behind the center field seats to get it (the Beers of the World concession stand). Wally the Beerman is interesting, but overrated, plus he sells MGD, which contrary to their ads is crappy over everything.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-06 07:56pm

As a parent, I'd much rather have my kids playing soccer than baseball, since soccer is a more athletic game and vastly superior exercise. In baseball, when you're on offense you spend 95% of your time sitting on the bench, and the other 5% hacking with the bat, if you're lucky. And when you're on defense you spend 90% of your time standing still, 9% watching somebody else handle the play, and 1% actually fielding the ball yourself. This is not good exercise, folks.

Not to mention the fact that baseball is boring as hell because of all the step-outs, walking around, delays between pitches and batters, etc. What they need is a shot clock. As soon as the batter steps into the box, he's locked in; he's not allowed to step out again until the pitcher throws or it's an automatic strikeout. And the pitcher must throw within 20 seconds of the batter stepping into the box or it's an automatic walk. That would help with the fucking painful boredom factor.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-10-06 07:59pm

From the way I understand it, baseball was huge #1 sport in America until the strike several years back, then a lot of its fan base dissapeared. That's how my Dad is, and all his friends. As it is, I can't find anyone my age who likes baseball. Which is fine; they all give way to hockey in the end. Wings pwn j00.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-10-06 08:03pm

Knife wrote:Though I could see it happening to any sport, if a strike happened in say Basketball or (god forbid) Football,then those sports will be badly hurt.

That's why we have The Replacements right?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-06 08:08pm

I couldn't care less about baseball. Football, hockey, good basketball (not NBA, college ball), soccer, virtually ANYTHING is more fun to watch than baseball.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-10-06 08:27pm

Baseball is almost as slow and long as cricket. IMO

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-10-06 08:54pm

all your punny little american sports will be overrolled by the mighty sport of soccer in a couple of decades. baseball won´t be an exception.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-10-06 09:19pm

Chess is far superior to all your atheletic sports with the use of puny muscles.

Thats the fastest growing sport as evil genius children are quickly signing on. I prefer playing basketball though my "skillz" as they say aren't really good.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-06 09:22pm

Just goes to show that some people dont have the attention span for the game these days.

The declning popularity of Baseball as a professionally played sport can be directly attributed to several things. It used to be that there were fewer teams, with the 30 professional teams there are now the talent pool has dwindled, meaning that there is a disparity in talent among all of the players as a whole. this also means that it is now necessary to go to greater legnth in order to get and keep the best players on a team. The Yankees have done this with their large payrool as have teams such as Boston, Arizona, and Seattle. However this creates further disparity between teams such as New York and Small MArket teams such as Milwaukee. There are definitely rare exceptions to the small payroll problem, the twins for Example and this season's Florida Marlins, but they have a much different problem. When their talented players reach time for a new contract, they want more money than the small payroll can accomodate for and then the two must part ways. The Twins will probably lose two, maybe three of their best players from this season.

Baseball as a professional sport suffers from the fact that people's attention spans are gradually dwindling, people these days prefer more flow than baseball allows for. Fans these days are also a lot more fickle than they were years ago, and a franchise that doesn't win will pay for it in their gate reciepts. THe Detroit Tigers were the pride of michigan not too long ago back when they were the best team in baseball. now thatthey are in the cellar no one is willing to shell out for a ticket. Those people in Detroit however aren't going to switch teams, they switch sports entirely, hence the rise of the Red Wings shortly after the fall of the Tigers. On the flip side,Anaheim's success in baseball last year led to a record Attendance this year with the club reaching 3 million fans in attendance on the season, the first time ever. this goes to show that some ranchises are not only appreciated in their areas, but that appreciation is directly tied into recent success.

BAseball needs to contract 2-4 Franchises. Definitely Tampa Bay and Montreal. It then needs to realign itself somewhat, and change interleague play so that they play regional rivalries exclusively. Case in point, the Los Angeles Dodgers had no sell outs last year until Interleague games with the Anaheim Angels, when it sold out Dodger Stadium 3 games in a row. Inter City rivalries and close city rivalries are sell out games and are incedibly exciting for the fans as well as being guaranteed ticket sales.

The San Diego Padres were hard pressed to pull in very many fans per game this year during the middle of the season, averaging around 20,000. If they were to pick up three games a year against Anaheim and another 3 against fellow in state team Oakland, they would have sold a lot more tickets. Assuming they merely doubled their average for those six potential games (though it could have been nearly tripled) from 20,000 to 40,000 thats another 120,000 tickets at a low end average of $10.00 each plus concessions. Its win-win because the teams would make more money and the fans would get the matchups they wanted. Nobody in say...San Francisco gives a shit if the BLue Jays come to town, but if teams like Oakland came to town a guaranteed three tiems a year thats a huge financial gain.

As for people contending that baseball isnt a very athletic sport, well, they neglect throwing a baseball as hard as they can one hundred times in a day, running ninety feet as fast as possible, and taking a big wooden club and trying to swat this tiny little ball as far as it can go, then doing it twenty times a month for the remainder of the season.

Baseball is far from dead my freinds, the game is still great to many people.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-06 09:27pm

salm wrote:all your punny little american sports will be overrolled by the mighty sport of soccer in a couple of decades. baseball won´t be an exception.

Nah, I don't see soccer taking root in America anytime soon.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-06 11:46pm

The chances now of a team doing what the Twins did in '91 and pick up two drastically underrated power hitters off another team's scrapheap for next to nothing (Shane Mack from the Padres and Chili Davis from the Angels, each of whom contributed a good 20-30 home runs and 75-95 RBIs to the Twins' 1991 World Championship season) are seriously diminished.

Incidentally, I think the reason Kent Hrbek (Twins player from 1982-94) spent a lot of time playing in Kirby Puckett's shadow is because Puckett was the game-maker, the guy who got everybody excited - and Metrodome PA announcer announcer Bob Casey shouting, "KIRBYYYYYYYY PUCKETT!" over those big, woefully static-filled speakers (the Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome is an acoustic nightmare, BTW) never failed to get the fans on their feet. Whereas Hrbie was kind of the big affable doofy guy. Plus he always batted cleanup right after Puckett. Hit a lot more homers than Kirby did, though.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2003-10-07 12:02am

Don't let all this crap about "Small Market" teams being unable to compete distract you from the real issue of franchise mismanagement. Milwaukee is in a position where it caters to just about the entire state of Wisconsin without other instate competition. HELLO, WISCONSIN IS NOT A SMALL MARKET! The Green Bay Packers are able to survive and thrive here, and there's no reason a baseball franchise can't do the same. The real reason these teams do poorly is because bad management runs them into the ground. Case in point being the Detroit Tigers. The Tigers, even during their successful stretch in eighties, were the absolute worst team in baseball when it came to basic organizational fundementals such as talent evaluation, talent training, and foreign scouting. The Tigers completely mismanaged their draft, and wasted their draft picks on marginal talent that had next to no chance at panning out at the major league level. The Tigers are now paying for severe organizational flaws that have been in place since the eighties.

The reasons the Yankees were so successful in the nineties was that their farm and scouting system was able to produce such stars as Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Andy Pettite, and Alfonso Soriano. All of these players contributed mightily to the Yankee success of recent years. Granted, it helped that George Steinbrenner was willing to throw down the cash required to keep these guys in New York, but the fact remains that the Yankees farm system produced quality baseball talent that the organization was able to cash in for World Championships. The Yankees were willing to pump their resources into making sure they could bring in the best talent available into their organization. Not a whole lot of organizations are willing, or capable of doing that in Baseball, and that is the big difference between the haves and the have-nots.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-07 12:18am

irishmick79 wrote:Don't let all this crap about "Small Market" teams being unable to compete distract you from the real issue of franchise mismanagement. Milwaukee is in a position where it caters to just about the entire state of Wisconsin without other instate competition. HELLO, WISCONSIN IS NOT A SMALL MARKET! The Green Bay Packers are able to survive and thrive here, and there's no reason a baseball franchise can't do the same. The real reason these teams do poorly is because bad management runs them into the ground. Case in point being the Detroit Tigers. The Tigers, even during their successful stretch in eighties, were the absolute worst team in baseball when it came to basic organizational fundementals such as talent evaluation, talent training, and foreign scouting. The Tigers completely mismanaged their draft, and wasted their draft picks on marginal talent that had next to no chance at panning out at the major league level. The Tigers are now paying for severe organizational flaws that have been in place since the eighties.

The reasons the Yankees were so successful in the nineties was that their farm and scouting system was able to produce such stars as Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Andy Pettite, and Alfonso Soriano. All of these players contributed mightily to the Yankee success of recent years. Granted, it helped that George Steinbrenner was willing to throw down the cash required to keep these guys in New York, but the fact remains that the Yankees farm system produced quality baseball talent that the organization was able to cash in for World Championships. The Yankees were willing to pump their resources into making sure they could bring in the best talent available into their organization. Not a whole lot of organizations are willing, or capable of doing that in Baseball, and that is the big difference between the haves and the have-nots.

The Twins are an example of what happens when you've got a team with great talent but not a lot of available money (please note: a lot of this is largely because of the shitty lease the Twins are stuck in with the Metrodome). Sure, they can dominate the AL Central - a division with a lot of bad decision making concentrated over the last decade - but until they get some power in the lineup, they're not going to be able to win the AL or the World Series. And to do that, they need filthy lucre. To get that, they're going to need team owner Carl Pohlad - or his successor - to accept losses on the team for a few years to build up its stars as media figures that are nationally recognized, so the team can make up in merchandising revenue what it lacks in stadium receipts.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-07 12:53am

The argument you made about the Yankees being built on players theyve built up in the farm systems, is what i've been trying to expain to Yankee Haters for years.

However I dont think your take on the small market teams is 100% accurate, because it fails to take into account Television broadcasting revenue. The Milwaukee brewers might be able to cater to the whole state of Wisconsin, but they cannot reach as many homes like the Braves, Cubs, and Yankees can and thus cannot bring in the large amounts of revenue those teams can bring in.

Most teams have a local channel or regional cable channel such as Fox Sports Net to broadcast the games. Teams in a more densely populated area are going to reach more viewers, which means more money.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-07 12:58pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:As for people contending that baseball isnt a very athletic sport, well, they neglect throwing a baseball as hard as they can one hundred times in a day, running ninety feet as fast as possible, and taking a big wooden club and trying to swat this tiny little ball as far as it can go, then doing it twenty times a month for the remainder of the season.

You forgot to mention all of the time spent sitting on the bench between bursts of activity, or the fact that overweight pigs such as David Wells or Mo Vaughn can succeed at the highest levels of the game. Baseball is not an athletic sport.

PS. The only reason most people watch it is hometown pride, in my opinion. I watched both World Series when the Blue Jays won in 1992-93 because that's my hometown team. I have not watched since (although the strike in the following year certainly didn't improve my ardour for the game).

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-10-07 01:20pm

Captain Lennox wrote:Chess is far superior to all your atheletic sports with the use of puny muscles. Thats the fastest growing sport as evil genius children are quickly signing on. I prefer playing basketball though my "skillz" as they say aren't really good.

chess is not a "sport". it is a challenging game of strategy, but it is not a sport.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-10-07 05:09pm

JUST SAY NO TO BASEBALL!!!!!

SAY NO TO THE DOWNTOWN BALLPARK!!

SAY YES TO A NEW GROCERY!!

(actual signs in the East End of Charleston, when it was announced that Charleston wanted to build a new ballpark ... two years after the grocery store left and the city did nothing to get a new one in place.)

Personal opinion?
Baseball sucks. Get rid of them.