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Back in the day, I was fairly active in AOL's evolution/creation chat rooms. There were a few people I debated with on a regular basis, most of whom were typical creationist douchebag retards. Two of them, however, were a pair of 15yr old sisters from California. They were actually quite intelligent, but their upbringing was about as rabidly fundamentalist as you could imagine. Nevertheless they were always friendly and polite, and as time went by our debates became fewer and ordinary friendly conversation became the norm.

That was five years ago. Now the two of them are in college, and one of them has found a guy she likes. (Neither of them have ever so much as been on a date, and for the record they're very cute.) She's really shy, but the guy seems to like her, and earlier tonight I finally convinced her to let her sister talk to him for her. Problem is, he's an agnostic. Mom and Dad are dead-set against their daughter dating a heathen (their words) and she's too good to lie to them. For that matter, she was apparently too devoid of guile to avoid mentioning both her crush and his agnosticism in the first place.

Anyway, I'm really crossing my fingers here. This is the first time either of them has found someone they'll even admit to being willing to date. Like I said, they're both extremely bright, and I'm hoping a little secular exposure will break them out of the mold their upbringing has stuffed them into. Their eagerness to debate in favor of creationism has dimmed tremedously over the years, I've noticed, though I don't think they're in a place psychologically to call it bullshit out loud.

Anyone have any sage advice I ought to pass along to her?

Tell her that she's a woman now, not a girl, and her relationship decisions are between her and God. If she looks into her heart and really feels like she belongs with this guy, then she should be with him. Her parents should trust that they raised her well enough to make good decisions--even if the good decision turns out to be the one that they wouldn't make.

I'm sure Lord Wong can fill us in well on the reasonability of fundie parents, but nevertheless you phrased that well. I'll have to remember that next time I talk to her.

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:I'm sure Lord Wong can fill us in well on the reasonability of fundie parents, but nevertheless you phrased that well. I'll have to remember that next time I talk to her.

Oh, this is all for her benefit. Her parents can go get bent. The trick is, your friend has to believe that she has the right and the ability to make this decision. If she believes that, she might not LIKE that her parents don't approve of what she's doing, but there's a much better chance that she'll do it anyway.

If the parents prove a trouble, you could always point out God gave us all free will because he wanted us to make our own decisions, not so others could dictate to us(Yes, yes.. I know, I know.. I'm trying to be helpful, and a number of moderates think just this).

Heh... moderates... None of those on the scene. Over the years I've conversed online with her parents and grandfather, once or twice each. Grandpa is a full-on tinfoil hat lunatic, while mom and dad have lively family debates regarding the thickness of the supposed pre-flood vapor canopy.

Anyway, I'm encouraged. She blows off all the eligible fundies flung at her in church as being idiots and takes a liking to a heathen. Meanwhile her sister is all for going after the guy, and making up some BS about him being converted for mom & dad.

I guess this thread is much ado about nothing, but I've spent a long time hoping for these two to break out of their fundie cocoons.

RedImperator wrote:Tell her that she's a woman now, not a girl, and her relationship decisions are between her and God. If she looks into her heart and really feels like she belongs with this guy, then she should be with him. Her parents should trust that they raised her well enough to make good decisions--even if the good decision turns out to be the one that they wouldn't make.

Good advice. It should be her decision between herself and her own faith (though we have to admit, parental approval would probably play a big part in this). The only thing you should fear is that she does a complete 180 like a "Pastor's-Kid" syndrome. You know, when they're in college they experience unparalleled freedom and go crazy.

Marriage outside the church can work fine, if both people are willing to make it work. Rebecca and I have been married for over 11 years and we're happy. Of course, her parents didn't take it well at first, and their behaviour became so intrusive and irritating that we eventually severed all ties with them and put a "call block" on their telephone number. But when we had kids, they seemed to finally accept that the marriage was permanent and that they'd better find a way of getting along with me instead of trying to drive me away.

I figure thread necromancy is better than thread redundancy, and I actually have something to say...

She's not letting her sister talk to the guy for her, but she's drafted ME to write and ask him if he has a girlfriend or not. lol

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:She's not letting her sister talk to the guy for her, but she's drafted ME to write and ask him if he has a girlfriend or not. lol

What are you going to tell the guy?

Just "Hey, I'm a friend of a classmate of yours, and she's real interested in whether you're single or not." and so on like that.

Shit i nearly choaked on my cup of tea. Prawn has a friend? Does she know?

Lord Pounder wrote:Shit i nearly choaked on my cup of tea. Prawn has a friend? Does she know?

What a wonderful sentiment.
At any rate, good luck Prawn, may the shellfish be with you.