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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64744,00.html



SILVER SPRING, Md. — Police are searching for the killer or killers who gunned down five people within a one-mile radius in less than 24 hours in several suburbs of Washington.

Police said three men and two woman were shot dead one by one in public places Wednesday night and Thursday morning.

Police were trying to determine whether the shootings were related, and they would not dismiss the possibility that a spree killer was on the loose.

"At this point we can't say definitely they are all related, but it's probably they are all related," police spokeswoman Nancy Nickerson said.

Police were looking for two individuals in a white delivery truck, possibly an Isuzu, with black or purple lettering and a damaged rear lift. Several witnesses told police they saw the vehicle leaving some of the shooting scenes.

As a precaution, Montgomery County schools canceled all outdoor activities and locked down school buildings. No one was being allowed to leave or enter school buildings unless a parent calls ahead to retrieve their children. District of Columbia schools also canceled outdoor activities.

The lockdown would remain in effect until police said it was safe to lift the restrictions, schools spokeswoman Kate Harrison said.

A 55-year-old man was killed in the parking lot of a Wheaton grocery store Wednesday night, police spokeswoman Nancy Demme said.

A man riding a lawnmower was killed about 7:45 a.m. Thursday in the White Flint area, and another man was shot at 8:15 a.m. while pumping gas at a Mobil station in the Aspen Hill area. He died at the scene.

About a half-hour later, a woman died at a post office next to the Leisure World retirement community in Silver Spring. The woman was shot in the head, according to a spokesman for the Montgomery County Fire and Rescue Department.

A woman was then shot about 10 a.m. at a Shell gas station in Kensington. Mechanics at the gas working said they heard the shots but didn't see the person or persons who killed the woman, who was vaccuuming her van.

"We didn't see any confrontation or anybody around her," mechanic John Mistery said.

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I used to live 10 miles from LEISURE WORLD, and my mother works as
a Health Room Tech at the Public Schools in Rockville, MD......

Ahhh, the gun free utopia of Maryland, which was awarded by Clintler
for "leading the nation in gun safety" - based on restrictive legislation
(not low crime rates!!).

.........

Here's the latest, especially if you have kids in MoCo schools:

The shootings prompted Montgomery County schools to put a Code Blue in effect Thursday. Schools are effectively locked down for the rest of the day. Schools canceled all outdoor activities for students Thursday.

Afternoon kindergarten and Pre-K classes have been canceled. All morning students are being held at school, unless a parent is picking up a child.

The lockdown will remain in effect until police say it's safe, said spokeswoman Kate Harrison.

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EDIT, my mom saw one of the killers at the gas station as she was
driving to work this morning.....

**********

MD has some of the most restrictive gun legislation in the nation, and they most certainly prohibit concealed carry, for any reason. MD congressional candidates FIGHT over who's the TOUGHEST on guns , with comments like "I can't wait to take on the NRA" - who votes these clowns into office???

The PG county DA has publicy stated he'll HAPPILY prosecute any luckless Virginia CCW holders dumb enough to carry a gun for protection in the most dangerous county in the region.

WTF???

This is definately cause for the death penalty.

Not a cause for more gun control; Apprehending these individuals should be a top priority!!!

PS, in instances like this I have to agree with you about being armed against this kind of shit.

Here in Maryland we are prevented by the anti-gun nut liberals from protecting ourselves. No concealed carry, no open carry, and no firearms allowed in your car (unless unloaded, in a locked box, and locked in the trunk). We are all sitting ducks if a sniper or nut decides to start assasinating random people.

...........

Perhaps what we are seeing is the natural result of further restrictions on handguns. Maryland has been steadily increaseing restrictions on handgun purchase/ possession. Perhaps now these restrictions, in addition to the obvious hampering of law-abiding citizens, are now making it slightly more difficult for criminals to get handguns. So the criminal, whose desire to murder is not affected by gun control laws, simply now finds it easier to use a rifle than a handgun. We haven't seen this in the cities because concealability is so much more important when travelling in crowded cities on public transportation. But when the severe handgun restrictions reach the suburbs and more rural areas, where concealibility is of less relative importance and transportation is wholly by motor vehicle, the criminals may well switch to rifles.

Unintended consequences. First they ban "high-capacity" magazines. Then they watch in horror as smaller guns and larger calibers become more popular. Then they place so many restrictions on handguns, that criminals eventually become inconvienced. Then the politicians watch in horror as criminals start using rifles to do their killing, with the ironic effect that the criminal act is even more deadly because rifles are so much more lethal than handguns.

...............

Our County Police Chief, Charles Moose, was preparing to conduct his first press conference (after 15 hours and 5 shot and dead in a few mile radius). He was telling the assembled reporters the ground rules (not realizing that some cameras were already running). "Now look, we are not going to play 40 questions. We are not going to take any questions and I don't want to look like the asshole as I walk away."

That cop is an ass. Period.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... 2Oct3.html
More links.......

From DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND......

Of the four that info was made available,

they appear to be Hispanic or Black, which makes one wonder about targeting.... Blatant speculation on my part....

.......

Fox News is reporting that all are in a 1 mile radius... This has to be same nut killing them.

........

"one black man, one hispanic man, a white woman and a hispanic woman and a cab driver are the victims" . . .

.............

The police are looking for a white "box truck", possibly an Isuzu, which might have been seen near several of the killings.

.................

They are saying that they believe 2 people are in the vehicle. It has a damaged rear end at the hatch and a logo with black lettering with a purple outline square around it on the side of it. No race or gender stated yet on who is in the vehicle.

EmperorMing wrote:WTF???

This is definately cause for the death penalty.

Not a cause for more gun control; Apprehending these individuals should be a top priority!!!

Apprehend them if possible, shoot them if not.

This is why private citizens ought to have guns. There are dangerous people out there and you have every right to defend your self against them.

from various gun boards....

This scenario sound similar to what was covered in the Al Quada Training tapes. No?

......

was just thinking about that!! (somebody's home/yard; 2 gas stations; a grocery store parking lot; a bus stop in front of a P.O.)
hmmmmm....

................

Based on the randomness of these attacks, I'm guessing terrorists.
We KNEW the Al Qaeda was planning attacks like these.

...........

I was just thinking--perhaps this is a terrorist attack. I've noticed over the years that unskilled shooters (Columbine, etc.) tend to leave many wounded and few killed. These shooters seem to be killing everyone they shoot at, which speaks of skill. I hope everyone keeps the means to shoot back handy. Also, keep your wits about you.

..........................

Well, so much for Maryland getting a Republican Governor.

Interesting timing.

.........................

I was thinking the same thing. You bet that Townsend will be playing this up to the hilt, even though it's all happening under her watch.

The suspect(s) are taking advantage of people in defenseless situations (mowing lawn, vaccuming car). Why can't anti-gun people see that predators SEEK the defenseless. If we are armed, then they are less apt to confront us.

*I passed by a stopped white IZUZU truck on the beltway, two males are handcuffed and questioned between Georgia and Connecticut Ave. exits. **

................

It makes you wonder if they were entering homes last night and killing people in their homes. I wonder if more reports will come in of shootings that have not been discovered yet. Why kill one last night and then start again this morning killing 4 more? How many more is there that have not been discovered yet? It is all strange why it started last night with one victim and then restarted this morning with 4 more victims... that is if they are all related to the same killer or killers.

.............

Gee, they haven't found any shell casings! Chief Moose is waiting for reports from the crime scene people. Duh. Could the sniper be shooting from [inside] the Cube [truck]? Duh.

.............


The shit's hitting the fan here in MontCo here people.

Hey MKShep, thats why you need to come down south here where the gun laws are almost nil. heh, in the county im from, i would say that 90% of the population are gun owners and the violent crime rate is INCREDIBLY low, i think there have been like 2 murders in the last 3 or 4 years, and those were by out of towners.

But about that thing about those murders, that is EXACTLY why the sane and law abiding populus needs to be armed.

NF_Utvol wrote:Hey MKShep, thats why you need to come down south here where the gun laws are almost nil. heh, in the county im from, i would say that 90% of the population are gun owners and the violent crime rate is INCREDIBLY low, i think there have been like 2 murders in the last 3 or 4 years, and those were by out of towners.

But about that thing about those murders, that is EXACTLY why the sane and law abiding populus needs to be armed.

FREEDOM IS ACROSS THE POTOMAC IN VIRGINIA.


As soon as possible, I will try to escape across the Potomac for Virginia,
where taxes are lower as is crime.

also. some more thinking......by other gun board members...

..............

Some quick observations about this deal.

1.) This guy or guys, is five for five, He has shot five people and placed a killing shot in each case. Head shots and center torso.

2.) This guy or guys are shooting people of all ethnic origins, almost as though, they wish to make a point of not selecting on racial group, so far he has shot whites, Hispanics, and blacks at random.

3.) It looks like the shots are being made from either the road or the next parking lot, this distance combined with the accuracy of the shot placement suggest a long weapon of at least 9 mm carbine or above...most likely a scoped high powered rifle. (let us pray that it is not an AR15.)

4.) Witnesses have reported a loud report, suggesting that the weapon is not suppressed.

5.) If the Izuzu truck with damage to the rear is in fact the shooter vehicle (and with the unreliability of the witnesses this is a very big if.) it sounds as if their are multiple shooters. One shooter, one driver. this does not sound like a lone wacko on a suicide mission. (Does anybody remember a while back when they were having the nuclear reactor scares, were the authorities stopped the middle eastern guy, with all the weird stuff in his panel truck. Is their a training pattern here?

5.)This person or persons seem to be bent on keeping this series of murders going, for the maximum amount of time, inflicting the maximum amount or terror in the community, they have not just walked into a crowded place and opened fire. this suggests so level of training., they seem to have used carefully thought out escape and evasion techniques.

6.)We will know in a couple of hours if the killers have gone to ground (they may well have access to police scanners and media outlets.)if the killers go to ground, instead of going ahead with their murder spree, this will suggest terrorism, with the idea being to kill some people at random then vanish only to repeat the process at random intervals over the coming weeks. On the other hand, if they continue to shoot today, this would be evidence of some sort of suicidal intent. they may be waiting for 3pm when the schools have to let the children out.

6.) if this is an act of terrorism. This could well be the reason, that the government may push for a immediate halt to the sale of ammunition and or firearms for the duration of the "war on Terror".

MKSheppard wrote:Here in Maryland we are prevented by the anti-gun nut liberals from protecting ourselves. No concealed carry, no open carry, and no firearms allowed in your car (unless unloaded, in a locked box, and locked in the trunk). We are all sitting ducks if a sniper or nut decides to start assasinating random people.

Right. But if you had a handgun in your pocket and a sniper with a rifle picks you off from 100 metres away, you would have ... predicted the shot and killed him with your handgun? *snicker*

How realistic are these claims about people defending themselves against a shot that comes with no warning?

A bank robber might be stopped by an armed person, because he stands there and a whole shitload of people can get a good look at him. But the kind of person who walks up and shoots you with no warning, like in this story? Sorry, but unless you have Jedi prescience, you'll just be another dead guy who happens to have a gun on his corpse. Maybe the killer will pry it from your cold, dead hands before he leaves.

PS. As an ex-convict, YOU shouldn't be heavily armed under ANY reasonable legal system.

Darth Wong wrote: A bank robber might be stopped by an armed person, because he stands there and a whole shitload of people can get a good look at him. But the kind of person who walks up and shoots you with no warning, like in this story? Sorry, but unless you have Jedi prescience, you'll just be another dead guy who happens to have a gun on his corpse. Maybe the killer will pry it from your cold, dead hands before he leaves.

PS. As an ex-convict, YOU shouldn't be heavily armed under ANY reasonable legal system.

Actually, unless the badguy is very very good or scores a headshot,
you have an excellent chance of survivng long enough to get him
back. Did you know that if someone is properly motivated enough,
they can function for 30 seconds with a heart that's just been shot
thru with a bullet?

Most people just drop down and die, because they've been conditioned
by action films where someone gets shot and dies instantly.

In my time in jail, I've talked with people who have been fucking
RIDDLED with bullets and are still alive except for some scars...

My favorite was the guy with a .45 hollowpoint just to his chest right
above his heart.

Darth Wong wrote: Right. But if you had a handgun in your pocket and a sniper with a rifle picks you off from 100 metres away, you would have ... predicted the shot and killed him with your handgun? *snicker*

They've had their free kills now. Everyone knows about the Isuzu Truck now.

Their life is about to get much much harder.

There now reporting shots at the UN. This is not looking good. Not good at all.

They just confirmed them. Happened as the cheif weapons inspectors was speaking.

Darth Wong wrote: Right. But if you had a handgun in your pocket and a sniper with a rifle picks you off from 100 metres away, you would have ... predicted the shot and killed him with your handgun? *snicker*

From a gun board......

The VICTIM might not have had a chance, but a WITNESS might have been able to stop the THUG/THUGS.

I can't think of the TX State Rep's name is, but her Mom and Dad were killed in the Luby's restaurant several years ago. She is responsible for bringing CCW to Texas.

Prior to creating the CCW law, she REGULARLY carried a gun on her person, but she thought she would be legal that day and left it in her car.

The shooter came in and she and her Mom and Dad (and 21 other people as I recall), were SITTING DUCKS! As the guy fired his first shot, she thought "no problem, I'll just pull out my gun" and then realized it was about 100 feet away in her car.

The guy shot one of her parents and she realized that parent was dead. She tried to get the other parent to run to the back of the restaurant, but that one stayed with the first parent---and also got shot and died.

She felt so helpless and OUTRAGED that by being legal (i.e. not carrying a gun), a bad guy was able to kill her parents and she was right there and couldn't do ANYTHING about it, she decided to file a bill to enable people to be able to DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST THUGS WHO DON'T CARE A WHIT ABOUT THE LAW---NO MATTER WHAT IT IS!!!!!!!

In Texas---where people CAN carry guns---the gun crime rate went DOWN because the THUGS KNEW THEY MIGHT BE KILLED by a bystander.

The places where the gun-toting thugs like to go now to kill people are the places where it still is NOT legal to carry guns---Post Offices, churches, schools, hospitals. GE,, I wonder why??? (NOT)

In related news Ayman al-Zawahiri is dead.



Url: Here Sorry in Swedish only

No news on either the shooting or Ayman on CNN anyone have a good link to the news?

Faram wrote:In related news Ayman al-Zawahiri is dead.



Url: Here Sorry in Swedish only

No news on either the shooting or Ayman on CNN anyone have a good link to the news?

Is this one of those: he's dead. No he's not. Yes he is deals? Or do they have actual proof?

Sorry did't read all of the news it is a is / is not deal i was so exited that a scumbag would be dead so i did't check to good.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/03/ ... index.html

MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- One person is dead, following a fiery fuel tanker explosion. The tanker rolled off an exit ramp early Thursday and exploded in the parking lot of a women's jail, detonating ammunition inside several parked police cars.

The driver of the tanker, whose name was not released, died in the accident, said Lt. Julio Pajon, a spokesman for the Florida Highway Patrol. No other injuries are reported.

The driver of the tanker lost control of the vehicle while exiting Interstate 95 to Highway 836 shortly after 3 a.m., Pajon said. The tanker rolled off the ramp and landed in the lot of the women's annex of the Miami-Dade County Detention Center, he said.

The fire burned at least 10 cars, including patrol cars, city and county vehicles, Pajon said. Witnesses reported hearing "gunshots" as rounds of ammunition caught fire inside the police cars.

None of the 417 women detainees at the center was harmed, a spokeswoman for the detention center said.

Portions of the westbound lanes of Highway 836 remained closed early Thursday as rush hour traffic backed up. Engineers searched for structural damage on the road, which is a major commuter route into downtown Miami.

"The fire is out but it burned long enough to cause the concrete to crack on the outermost guard rail" of the highway, Pajon said.

MKSheppard wrote:
SHOTS FIRED AT THE UN BUILDING IN NYC!

Some details, including a photo of the gunman, at:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Northeast/10 ... index.html

The gunman appears to be ethnic asian (Chinese?) rather than one of al Qaida's native population (Saudis).

Darth Wong wrote:

MKSheppard wrote:Here in Maryland we are prevented by the anti-gun nut liberals from protecting ourselves. No concealed carry, no open carry, and no firearms allowed in your car (unless unloaded, in a locked box, and locked in the trunk). We are all sitting ducks if a sniper or nut decides to start assasinating random people.

Right. But if you had a handgun in your pocket and a sniper with a rifle picks you off from 100 metres away, you would have ... predicted the shot and killed him with your handgun? *snicker*

How realistic are these claims about people defending themselves against a shot that comes with no warning?

A bank robber might be stopped by an armed person, because he stands there and a whole shitload of people can get a good look at him. But the kind of person who walks up and shoots you with no warning, like in this story? Sorry, but unless you have Jedi prescience, you'll just be another dead guy who happens to have a gun on his corpse. Maybe the killer will pry it from your cold, dead hands before he leaves.

PS. As an ex-convict, YOU shouldn't be heavily armed under ANY reasonable legal system.

If we cant trust him with a gun, then why the fuck is he on the streets? Anyway..


Its more like, shooter hits one person, then gets cut down by an armed third party. This has happened countless times. Even that third party putting some bullets holes in the getaway vehicle would be a big boost to search efforts.

"Where looking for a white truck" becomes "where looking for a white truck with a shattered windshield." That narrows things down quite a bit.

As for taking damaging and still managing to get shots off, one IJN pilot took two 12.7mm machine gun bullets in the HEAD and managed to fly his damaged Zero over 500 miles back to base. He was also basically blind from blood running into his eyes. He recovered and fought again.

Pople have been hit with everything from 9mm to 14.5 AP, a round with twice the power of an M2 12.7 and still managed to use there weapon. One Marine in 1968 got hit five times with 12.7mm from a captured waud fifty, and still managed to take it out with his M79.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:PS. As an ex-convict, YOU shouldn't be heavily armed under ANY reasonable legal system.

If we cant trust him with a gun, then why the fuck is he on the streets? Anyway...

Feeble legal system.

Its more like, shooter hits one person, then gets cut down by an armed third party. This has happened countless times. Even that third party putting some bullets holes in the getaway vehicle would be a big boost to search efforts.

I think the question is not one of absolutes, but of simple proportions. Nobody seems to want to ask the simple question of whether factor A outweighs factor B. There is no THEORETICAL way to determine it; the simple question is whether the widespread availability of firearms solves more problems than it creates.

It is a lie to say that firearms cannot possibly solve problems, as you point out. However, it is also a lie to say that firearms cannot possibly create problems (stick a gun in the hand of an enraged idiot, and you've got a problem). The only question is: which one is worse?

One thing I've noticed about American vs Canadian crime is that American crime tends to be much more unpredictable (not to mention more frequent; Toronto is the fifth largest metropolis in North America and averages 100 homicides a year). Canadian murders usually involve an identifiable motive; the criminal knew the victim. But when I lived near the states, I was astonished at the huge number of lethal "crimes of passion" or random violence. These are the sort of crimes which happen when you combine an asshole with a gun; is that an acceptable price to pay for the notion that an occasional criminal will be taken down by gun-wielding civilians?

Again, I'm not saying that all guns should be banned, but they should be more difficult to get. Someone like Shep is a walking poster boy for gun control; he is a violent ex-convict who insists that he should have the right to carry concealed firearms.

I don't think making guns more difficult to legally get would have any affect at all unless the black market is wiped out. I very much doubt any of the people involved in the various gang related shootings in Toronto over the past few years used legally purchased handguns and bullets. In fact with their lengthy prior criminal records there's no way in hell they could legally purchase a firearm. They used stolen weapons, or ones that have been smuggled in. Remember the gun shop in Toronto that got held up and robbed about a month ago? I wonder where those 70 odd stolen firearms are headed to? They're probably floating around in Rexdale, the Jane/Finch area, and other criminal hangouts, waiting to be used in yet another gang shooting or for more muggings, robberies, and home invasions. There's a saying that goes with this, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns", that's not a world I want to live in.