StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Coming back from the only lecture I had today, I find that on my usual route from bus stop to Gregg's to get a latté, chicken pasty and caramel shortbread, there are more than the usual charity people on the street.

Unfortunately, I wasn't awake having spent an hour listening to the foraging tactics of barnacle geese, so what woke me up was when a bright eyed young Indian girl in a bright yellow jacket asked if I could spare two minutes to hear her out and "change someone's life". I must've been there five minutes, stuck in the middle of the street listening to her and nodding as she went through how easy it was to live if you had eyes and ears that still worked and how the charity Sense could help these people for the price of a beer a week.

By this point I was really getting agitated. I wanted my lunch, I was going to sleep standing up and I simply don't have the cash to start paying other people's ways as it is. So I made the excuse that I needed to urgently go, despite it failing in the first instance, yet she still protested to me filling these forms out.

Eventually, I put my foot down and said I didn't have time nor the cash (she didn't seem to know there was a uni here, letalone I was a student) and I was on my way.

On my way through a damn minefield of other similar charity agents who only differ from the SS in swiftness by their attire.

I had to say no to at least 3 other such people before I got my damn lunch, I'm only 100 metres from my flat from that bus stop anyway! Yet, I can't help but feel sorry for the girl and her comrades and that I was being selfish. So does anyone else have to put up with similar problems like homeless guys or wandering flower girls who will practically weep or beat you up, respectively, if you don't give them cash?

Don't worry about it. If you want to feel a bit better, then I can tell you that begging is a lucrative business (at least where I live - in Poland, beggars 'earn' twice or trice the standart worker pay - and that is a fact).

But seriously, you shouldn't feel bad about it. You (probably) pay your taxes, and part of those taxes goes to the social care (dunno how it works in the UK, but I think it should be pretty universal) - in fact it is the government's duty to look after homeless, poor or challenged in any way.

I know those things make you feel sorry - I meet my share of such people on my way to the university - and I never give them money. You did more than normal by listening to the poor girl's story - maybe she needed to 'vent some steam' out to someone. Don't worry, you're not a monster.

*sigh* Alas, 'tis but one of my many weaknesses (sp?) I live near downtown J'ville. It's hoity toity enough to be quite nice, as it's near the river and all, but close enough to downtown to have the homeless people wandering around, some drunk, some high, and have those seedy convenience stores that sell "Tobacco water pipes". Every month or so, on my daily constitutional up to one of said stores to visit a buddy of mine, a homeless guy of one kind or another will come up to me asking for money. My favorite bullshit-you-til-I-get-money-for-more-beer story was one guy who had a daughter in a hotel room, who should have been in a hospital and he was just out trying to get money for food for her and to be able to pay the doctor, just so they'll see her. This from a guy who can barely maintain his balance and is getting ME drunk just from his breath!
"HA!" thought I, "You'll get no cash from me, I'm afraid."

then I gave him 10 bucks on the miniscule chance he was telling the truth. I'm such a sap.

Yeah, it's annoying, but they always seem to know when to hit me up for cash (When I have some extra) and my conciense (GOD MY SPELLING!) won't let me tell them to get bent.

As an aside I'm anxious to hear what other SDnetters do to avoid giving handouts.

It may sound cruel, but when I get annoyed (exactly Valdemar's case) I tend to say "Im a student, do I LOOK like I have money?". But thats marginal, pissed off 'me'. Normally when I scope out a potential beggar I go into a high orbit which does not intersect with his ejection burn trajectory from the stationary orbit he's on. Its tough when they nab me tho. They know what to say to apply to your conscience, feeling of guilt. But when I actually discovered those means of 'psychological war' it became easier to walk by. Despite what I said in the last post, sometimes, when they hit the 'soft conscience spot' on me I give them some spare change.

But what's more funny, I don't feel much better afterwards.

This happened to me the other day. I'm walking to class (already late), and some guy stops me. I never actually stop, but sort of slow down but keep walking. This guy is apparently from the Muslim Student Alliance wanting me to join their Ramadan "Fast-a-thon". So, I'm walking to class, this guy following me, and I end up saying, "You got a flyer or anything? I'm late for class and don't have the time to listen to this." He just kind of went "blah blah blah..huh? Uh..no..." So, I just walk off. Just walking off usually works, but the first time, it didn't with this guy.

Wow....a Fast-A-Thon? Was it really called that? That's just sad when you have fundies heckling you on your way to class of all places...My condolences. (As an aside do things like this often happen at the campus you are at?)

Chardok wrote:Wow....a Fast-A-Thon? Was it really called that? That's just sad when you have fundies heckling you on your way to class of all places...My condolences. (As an aside do things like this often happen at the campus you are at?)

Yep, they had a big banner that said: "Ramadan Fast-A-Thon". And this doesn't very often, really. Occasionally we'll have somebody handing out flyers for some church or something, and even rarer, someone handing out the 'end is near' flyers. Somehow, they always seem to hand them to me, though. Do I really look that much like a heathen?

Heh, get this though, I have a good friend who is a Seikh, and he always wears the traditional turban on his head. Let's just say that he ALWAYS gets handed those flyers.

I don't feel bad about it. Here in Canada, people can collect welfare, they can get job retraining (the gov't paid my mother to take nursing courses) , there are aid programs for street kids, if you're disabled you can get a disability pension (my friend gets checks from the gov't to pay for all sorts of things)

... and having lived for 6 years in Montreal as a student, I came to know the panhandlers by name practically, and you'll see some of them walking around normally without the crappy clothing doing day-to-day-stuff, then the next day back in their "bumb" clothing. Some you'll see every day asking for a buck, not because they need it, but because they lost their wallet and just need change for a taxi or something.

There was an article in Montreal newspapers that interviewed some of these people. Some make a huge profit; they're pulling in more than $20 bucks an hour, 8-10 hours per day, 6-7 days a week, plus welfare, all taxfree. There's one woman on the street, a blind woman with a dog who plays a clarinet, I rarely walk by her without seeing someone give her a buck.... she must make a killing. I consider most of these people to be street performers without a good act.

In conclusion, no I don't feel sorry. Many are doing OK, others can can real help if they really need it.

Now there is this one guy who dresses up in a batman suit and dances to hip hop music... now HE'S funny and deserves my money

Of course your a monster, how dare you try to live you life without trying to fix ohter people's problems. Afterall, your responsible for the success or failure of everyone else in the world because there is no such thing as personal responsibility.

Organized begging like this is nothing more then an attempt to emotionally mug you through the guilt your supose to have for making a success out of yourself. If you have no guilt then this shit will just bounce off of you.

To quote from the Devil's Advocate: "Guilt is like a bag of fucking bricks, all you have to do is set it down."

On a side note, the only charity I will even consider giving money to is one devoted to helping orphans/deprived children. This is because they are genuinly not responsible for the shitty situation that they are in.

Zoink wrote:I don't feel bad about it. Here in Canada, people can collect welfare, they can get job retraining (the gov't paid my mother to take nursing courses) , there are aid programs for street kids, if you're disabled you can get a disability pension (my friend gets checks from the gov't to pay for all sorts of things)

... and having lived for 6 years in Montreal as a student, I came to know the panhandlers by name practically, and you'll see some of them walking around normally without the crappy clothing doing day-to-day-stuff, then the next day back in their "bumb" clothing. Some you'll see every day asking for a buck, not because they need it, but because they lost their wallet and just need change for a taxi or something.

There was an article in Montreal newspapers that interviewed some of these people. Some make a huge profit; they're pulling in more than $20 bucks an hour, 8-10 hours per day, 6-7 days a week, plus welfare, all taxfree. There's one woman on the street, a blind woman with a dog who plays a clarinet, I rarely walk by her without seeing someone give her a buck.... she must make a killing. I consider most of these people to be street performers without a good act.

In conclusion, no I don't feel sorry. Many are doing OK, others can can real help if they really need it.

Now there is this one guy who dresses up in a batman suit and dances to hip hop music... now HE'S funny and deserves my money

Montreal panhandlers amuse me. We were there for a week in August and every day we walked down Ste. Cathrine street from the Royal Bank of Canada to Crescent St. Every day each panhandler was in the same spot wering a differnt set of rags. There was also a bumfight over the panhandling rights to some corner over by Concordia. I had to laugh. The locals just walk by them but the tourists (like me on the first day) were constantly tossing them change. (i accidently gave a guy 5 bucks. stupid Canadian $2 coins!)

I always say, "Sorry, I can't help you," and keep walking.

The most obnoxious pan handlers I've seen are in downtown San Diego in the gaslamp. Some of them are fucking rude bastards, and one time a couple followed me and this girl i was with for a couple of blocks telling her how beautiful she was. I told them I had AIDS and I was gonna bite them if they didn't go away.

Motherfucker, I hate that shit!!!

The fact that you felt bad proves you are not a monster Admiral Valdemar. It is not a big deal to not help every charity that comes along, after all some may not even be a cause that is personaly important. And being a student how much help can you really provide? Donating to a charity should not put the donor in financial hardship and being a student that is a likely possibility.
Something else to think about.
Alot of phone charities are fakes, I remember watching 20/20 or nightline this past summer and they did a investigation of fake charities, and it is a big business. There is a guy you can hire to teach you to set up fake charities and make alot of $$$.
Also you have to be careful of who you give to these days, back when I was in High School working at the local grocery store we had a guy claiming to be from the Salvation Army show up in the Santa suit and with the red bucket and collect donations for a week before he was found out to have stolen the red bucket and did not work for the Salvation Army.

Yep, you have to watch out for hoaxes. I heard about a guy that disguised himself as a charity collector, 'worked' like that through the summer and earned enough money to buy a car. Don't know him personally tho, so can't say how much truth is in it.

In short: giving away money to people on the street - no.
Donating money to charity actions and other organized forms of charity - yes.

That is my policy at least

Whenever I'm accosted by a charity collector or panhandler, I simply ignore them. If they get in my face, I just say "no thanks".

No more elaborate ritual is required, I'm not going to bother arguing with them or letting them draw me into a conversation, and I don't feel guilty about it. I figure that if I pay thirty thousand dollars of fucking taxes to support the nation's social programs, I've already given enough.

A forced charity donation sounds more like a feudal tax collection.

If they're going to resort to thrusting papers in your face and demand that you sign them, they might as well just wear black hoods and carry axes like in Hagar the Horrible...

Whenever I'm accosted by such people, I close my eyes and remember the scene in "Airplane" where Captain Kramer (?) beats up several such people in the airport terminal.

I wouldn't mind, but I give to charity quite a bit if I can, any loose change I have and there's a convenient charity rep around and they spot me, I'll give them it. No idea why today was so different, I can just wave them off and rush away, but this time it's like some mind control was used. Maybe because it was a girl my age and, I have to say, quite cute.

Funny, the others were guys and I had no trouble in telling them to sod off in the end.

I take it on a case-by-case basis. For instance, one time I walked by a beggar who was claiming that he needed money to get a zebra spine transplant, and I found that so amusing that I had to give him money.

Giving beggars money will only encourage them, when they could just go on welfare and get the fuck out of my face (of course, they might already be on welfare and they just panhandle for more drug money). Mind you, I live in Canada where welfare bums aren't quite as destitute as American welfare bums, so I don't feel that I need to sympathize too much (the only ones who can't make ends meet are the ones who insist on living in Toronto, and if they want to live in the most expensive city in the country, that's their own fucking problem).

Durran Korr wrote:I take it on a case-by-case basis. For instance, one time I walked by a beggar who was claiming that he needed money to get a zebra spine transplant, and I found that so amusing that I had to give him money.

You would not believe how many wackos we have in this city. I never noticed them until I actually moved to uni, everytime you visit the place it's okay, but then you notice a lower class of life. We've got wandering groups of hobos with scruffy dogs, bags of booze and a smell that has become an individual entity. There's also a guy with the Stars & Stripes tattooed on his face.

Iowa City has its share of crazies and wierdoes, but mostly it's infested with the aluminum can-hunting elderly. It's pretty sad, really...

giving some bum change rarely helps them. as someone else said, it only encourages them, and if anything it'll just give them that much more money towards supporting their habbit, whether it be booze, pot, hard drugs, etc.

where i live there's all kinds of panhandlers, and you'll often see the same ones in the exact same place every single day. giving them change won't alter their lives at all. if someone asks for your help or bothers you for money, and you want to help, don't give them change.

instead, point them to a day labor location, help wanted ads, give them job hunting tips, help them out with bus tickets if they need 'em, but never spare change. if they won't take your help for finding a job, then they don't deserve anything from you, and you don't need to feel guilty for it.

Durran Korr wrote:I take it on a case-by-case basis. For instance, one time I walked by a beggar who was claiming that he needed money to get a zebra spine transplant, and I found that so amusing that I had to give him money.

I was talking to a cop once who has known beggars who make ~$3500/week begging. I don't have much sympathy for such people.

Fuck 'em. You don't owe anything to these people, the reason for you to give is because you actively want to. Giving away your money and time is not the default expectation, nor should it be.

I used to give a buck to every bum I saw, but then I turn 11 and started actually using my money. I only give cash to a bum if they're doing something entertaining or for South Park Movie-esque arrangements.

While i feel sorry for the people these parasites are trying to help i haven't the time nor the money. Belfast City Centre is full of these leeches, they make 6 quid an hour and then they expect me to fork over my hard earned money. There are certain shops i can't visit now because they make getting to them so hard, i only get an hour for my lunch.

I told one guy once that i already worked and volunteered for a charity, and i honestly do, he looked me up and down and calm as you like said "Aye and very well you do out of it from the looks of you". Cheeky bastard, i reported him to his charity and i never saw him again.