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Which is the better rifle?

I read about the problems the M-16 had in Vietnam with jamming. The AK-47 did not have this problem since it was built with a "wide tolerance" on the moving parts. This was to prevent jamming. But did this have any effect on the accuracy of the weapon?

Also, how does the AK-74 stack up against the AK-47? Is the AK-74 just a modernized AK-47 that uses a smaller round (7.62 mm vs 5.45 mm)?

That was Vietnam era. Present day between the two, I'd say the M16. What's the latest production modification of the class? I think its the M16-A4. Why do you ask?

Rogue 9 wrote:That was Vietnam era. Present day between the two, I'd say the M16. What's the latest production modification of the class? I think its the M16-A4. Why do you ask?

I read a news report on Yahoo that some sources in the Pentagon were looking to replace the M-16 before the OICW comes into service.

M16A2 owns the ass off of any AK-74 variant. The AK-74 ups the -47's paltry 300m effective range to 500m, which still pales in comparison to the M16A2's 800m effective range. The -A2 doesn't jam nearly as much as the Vietnam-era baseline and -A1, but the AK line does do better in that respect.

The modern M16 is actually a fairly resilient weapon that does not have serious issues with reliability the way the early M16 models did. It also has a much greater range, better accuracy, and slightly better firepower than the AK variants. I would go with the M16, due to its light weight and superior workmanship.

I've heard stories about the M16 and I think somewhere I read that it does not hold 30 rounds due to it's cotinuous jamming, or some such crap.
Persoanly I'd go for the AK-47, simply for all the bad things I've heard about the M16, anyone wanna convert me, go right ahead.

Long live the M-14!

Dorsk 81 wrote:I've heard stories about the M16 and I think somewhere I read that it does not hold 30 rounds due to it's cotinuous jamming, or some such crap.
Persoanly I'd go for the AK-47, simply for all the bad things I've heard about the M16, anyone wanna convert me, go right ahead.

Its standard issue for the most powerful army in the world.

'Nuff said.

the AK47 is way cooler than the M16 because all the bad guys use AK47s.

JediNeophyte wrote:

Dorsk 81 wrote:I've heard stories about the M16 and I think somewhere I read that it does not hold 30 rounds due to it's cotinuous jamming, or some such crap.
Persoanly I'd go for the AK-47, simply for all the bad things I've heard about the M16, anyone wanna convert me, go right ahead.

Its standard issue for the most powerful army in the world.

'Nuff said.

Whos elite soliders are called the "Special" forces (private joke), doesn't fill me with confidence.

Dorsk 81 wrote:

JediNeophyte wrote:Its standard issue for the most powerful army in the world.

'Nuff said.

Whos elite soliders are called the "Special" forces (private joke), doesn't fill me with confidence.

Well, said special forces are among the best, most versatile, and highly trained in the world, and they tend to gravitate toward SOPMOD M4A1s (which are based on the M16) and SPR sniper rifles (again, based on the M16).

And let's not be forgetting the Somalia kill ratio (a good deal of which were made with, you guessed it, the M16A2).

Dorsk 81 wrote:

JediNeophyte wrote:

Dorsk 81 wrote:I've heard stories about the M16 and I think somewhere I read that it does not hold 30 rounds due to it's cotinuous jamming, or some such crap.
Persoanly I'd go for the AK-47, simply for all the bad things I've heard about the M16, anyone wanna convert me, go right ahead.

Its standard issue for the most powerful army in the world.

'Nuff said.

Whos elite soliders are called the "Special" forces (private joke), doesn't fill me with confidence.

Uh, pretty much every nation calls them spec-ops.

I'd rather have someone adopt a new rifle with a better round, I'm just obsessed with something like an M-4 or G36 chambered for the 6.8 x 43mm SPC round.

Explanation for "Special" forces reference: While reading The Zombie Survival Guide there was a paragraph about how the US Special forces use machine guns (designed for saturation) as rifles (designed for accuracy?). Well, that's how it was read to me which prompted the responce from me "I guess that's why they call them the 'special' forces".

It was one of those have-to-be-there moments.

Note: This is an extremely short explanation, the full length one involves hours of banter while playing Resident Evil and quips about how stupid STARS were.

Dorsk 81 wrote:Explanation for "Special" forces reference: While reading The Zombie Survival Guide there was a paragraph about how the US Special forces use machine guns (designed for saturation) as rifles (designed for accuracy?). Well, that's how it was read to me which prompted the responce from me "I guess that's why they call them the 'special' forces".

It was one of those have-to-be-there moments.

You can still "saturate" with assault rifles, you'd just be a total tit if you did that and were spec-ops. Accuracy is more pertinent.

Dorsk 81 wrote:Explanation for "Special" forces reference: While reading The Zombie Survival Guide there was a paragraph about how the US Special forces use machine guns (designed for saturation) as rifles (designed for accuracy?). Well, that's how it was read to me which prompted the responce from me "I guess that's why they call them the 'special' forces".

It was one of those have-to-be-there moments.

If it was referring to the M249, which I assume it was as that is one of the most common infantry "machine guns" in the US Army, then that seems prefectly legitimate to me. The machine guns of WWI are long gone, the M249 AR (Automatic Rifle, fancy that) is fully capable of accurate fire.

JUST LET IT DIE! IT WAS FUNNY AT THE TIME!

MKSheppard wrote:Long live the M-14!

And, by extension, the Garand!

The original M16 had serious problems with jamming in Vietnam, largely because the chambers at the time were not chrome-plated and were corroded by the humid environment, there. Many soldiers only used 15-20 rounds in each magazine due to this problem (and because of a closely related problem involving the springs in the magazines), but the problem has since been addressed in later models of the M16 (albeit largely ineffectively during Vietnam). The modern M16 assault rifle is nearly as durable as the AK-47 and most of its knock-off variants, and is actually superior to the most modern Russian assault rifles which require more maintenance but arguably deliver even better accuracy over close range. The modern M16 is a far superior weapon to the Kalashnikov weapons it's being compared to in this scenario.

The Ak-47's renowned reliability is largely the result of the entire action being massively overpowered. That makes it very inaccurate; you might as well just carry a good submachine gun and bring more ammunition.

paladin wrote:
I read a news report on Yahoo that some sources in the Pentagon were looking to replace the M-16 before the OICW comes into service.

The plan has always been to issue some troops with the XM-8, which is based off the G36, and some with the XM-29/OICW. As things are going the XM-29 may never enter service because it's too awkward and heavy and that will just mean all riflemen get an XM-8 while the M249's stay the same as they would in any case. The XM-8 can accept different barrel lengths so it can replace both the M16 and M4.

But the AK-47 is cooler, and thats all that really matters in the end.

Nathan F wrote:

MKSheppard wrote:Long live the M-14!

And, by extension, the Garand!

What's with all this "self loading" nonsense? It merely encourages the solider to waste ammunition, what they need is a fine bolt-action weapon of the longest range. The Boer war has after all shown what great value long range fire is. To meet both these requirements the modern solider needs the Lebel M1886. Its sights are calibrated out to 2000 meters and the eight round tubular magazines ensures that the soldiers will concern himself with the matter accuracy and conservation of ammunition.

There's also a need for a new long-range light machine gun, I would suggest the Maxim '08/15. This incredible Hun weapon weighs a mere 40 pounds with water and bipod, but its unlikely it can lay down accurate fire at 4500 yards so the infantry shall be issued with the full weight version of the weapon, but one fitted with an indirect fire sight.

The demands of the modern long-range battlefield also call for infantry accompany guns firing the marvelous shrapnel shell.

justifier wrote:But the AK-47 is cooler, and thats all that really matters in the end.

Pff, who wants a gun that's most commonly assosciated with RPG-7-toting towelheads?

What you want is an AK-74 with GP30, a weapon commonly assosciated with the Glorious Red Army! And if Communism ain't cool, then I don't know what is.

JediNeophyte wrote:

justifier wrote:But the AK-47 is cooler, and thats all that really matters in the end.

Pff, who wants a gun that's most commonly assosciated with RPG-7-toting towelheads?

What you want is an AK-74 with GP30, a weapon commonly assosciated with the Glorious Red Army! And if Communism ain't cool, then I don't know what is.

Pardon my ignorance of automatic weapons linked with religious nuts and communists, but whats the difference between and AK-47 and an AK-74?

Dorsk 81 wrote:

JediNeophyte wrote:

justifier wrote:But the AK-47 is cooler, and thats all that really matters in the end.

Pff, who wants a gun that's most commonly assosciated with RPG-7-toting towelheads?

What you want is an AK-74 with GP30, a weapon commonly assosciated with the Glorious Red Army! And if Communism ain't cool, then I don't know what is.

Pardon my ignorance of automatic weapons linked with religious nuts and communists, but whats the difference between and AK-47 and an AK-74?

The AK-47 is the original weapon of the series, based off of the German StG44 (though that went by about 4 different names, but I digress). Contrary to popular belief, it ceased production completely in 1951 and has not been mass produced since. A variety of knock-offs and copies were made by many countries outside the Soviet Union, however. I forget the exact date, but IIRC in the mid-50s the AKM assault rifle came into production to replace the AK-47. It offered pretty minimal improvements and that too ceased production. In 1974, as you may have guessed, the AK-74 was adopted by the Soviets. It was rechambered for 5.45mm Russian, down from the older AKs' 7.62mm. The smaller and lighter weight round had a much more stable flight and thus increased the effective range of the AK-74 to 500m.