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It's the early 30's, and you're the new Fuherer of Germany. Your goal: Do a better job than the real thing. Only minium requirement for this scenario: Take and hold France. (Just to keep anyone from having the bright idea of simply being a nice guy and averting war altogether.)

Stop murdering the jews, concentrate on building up an army to attack France. When taking poland only go far enough to build a buffer zone against the USSR. Tell the Japanese NOT to attack the americans. Tell them to work on China and begin building a force to attack the USSR.
Take France. Bomb the hell out of the British coast and navy with the Uboats and the bomber squadrens.
Once the Brits are routed give the Russkis a panzer pincer until we meet Tojo in Moscow.
Welcome the Americans with open christian arms to a holy alliance, then 'reform' them until they bend to my authority. Ten years down the road make sure their puppet leaders formalize my control. And the Northern hemisphere is mine.
Then Nuke the aussies.
muahahahahaha
MUAhahahahhahahah
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*Conan/Carrey laugh

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:It's the early 30's, and you're the new Fuherer of Germany. Your goal: Do a better job than the real thing. Only minium requirement for this scenario: Take and hold France. (Just to keep anyone from having the bright idea of simply being a nice guy and averting war altogether.)

Hmmm, armed with the knowledge I have now:

1) No anti jewish, racist, or pure aryan crap. But would still promote a strong, united and powerfull fatherland and use the swastika as the national symbol.

2) Initiate intense R&D into turbojet engines and aircraft craft so that planes like the Me262 and Arado 234 would be in full production by 1942 at the latest and with engines that wouldnt break down nearly as quickly.

3) Provide tank developers the right ideas and incentives to build our tanks like the T-34 right from the very beginning instead of the boxy primitive stuff Germany had at first.

4) Would NOT have Herman Goering and others like him in charge of key forces like the Luftwaffe.

5) Would build stronger ties with my allies so that information and technology sharing would be much easier and more widespread between us. Would also make sure Japan does not attack the US.

6) Would initiate an atomic bomb program similar to the one the US did very early in the 1930's. Einstein will not have left Germany because their would not be any anti semitism and our gov't would be funding and supporting him and his teams well.

7) Initiate R&D into assault rifles and weapons like the Panzerfaust and RPG much eariler so that they would be in use for when we go to war.

8 ) Once all is said and done, I attack France from the very beginning instead of Poland. With our vastly superior forces, weapons tech and intelligence to what Germany had in real history, France will be surrendering quicker than anything. After that, Britain and the rest of Europe fall within 1.5 or 2 yrs at most and a strong buffer zone has been put up between Russia and us. But in the event that the british somehow manage to hold out against our superior tech and forces for longer than they should their are at least 5 A-Bombs ready and more in the making to force their and anyone elses surrender by early 1945.

9) Once Europe is taken and secured, we, along with Japan, pincer strike Russia in a massive assault from both sides. Since we have been providing Japan with weapons knowledge and tech for years, their forces will be of similar quality and power to our own and they wont be tied up fighting anyone else.

Don't forget sending Rommel the occasional memo reminding him to send scouts ahead to investigate British coastal fortresses.

Some of the stuff above makes little sense. You'd have to bring entire duplicates of the work from the 1930s to wartime. Even if you have them it would still be difficult to place the infastructure needed to acheive all of this. also, Germany has limited funds the same as any other nation. I would eliminate the SS and build my army around Prussian leadership. Milch as head of the air force and Raeder may be around by Doenitz or Albecreht. I'd also relequenish far more cptrol to my staff and field commanders. I would build sea worthy transport flotilla and seriously invest in naval bombers that can take down the RN's supremacy. I'd also try to be as close to te Allies as possible, sharing some of my techs for vital ones for me. I'd do Anchulus but I wouldn't remilitarize the Rhineland since they are my "friends". I may annex the Czechs right before war, DOW eastward into Polannd, sign Molotov-Ribbentrop and offer unholy alliance with the USSR. The only reason this is done first is to let the BEF onto France. After Britain straves or is invaded, I puppet them an send troops back east. The same for France, I'd give the rest of the nation to vichy then DOW the USSR. Also, if Japan DOWs US, I refuse over contract.

First, none of this racist Gas-All-the-Jews bullshit. I ain't having that. I want to conquer the world, not destroy it. I would implement a plan quite similar to Icehawk's, except that as I build a huge arsenal of techno-toys and the giant armies it takes to run them, I'd be busy trying my best to reverse the damage two thousand years of Christianity has done to the world. There would be no state religion at all, just science, logic, and good sound morality. In twenty years, we would be colonizing the Moon. In fifty: Mars, its moons, and the Asteroid Belt. One Hundred: We'd be heavily researching a robust form of FTL. One Thousand? We'd be spreading across the Galaxy, spreading the Light of Humanity with us...

I shave my moustache

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:First, none of this racist Gas-All-the-Jews bullshit. I ain't having that. I want to conquer the world, not destroy it. I would implement a plan quite similar to Icehawk's, except that as I build a huge arsenal of techno-toys and the giant armies it takes to run them, I'd be busy trying my best to reverse the damage two thousand years of Christianity has done to the world. There would be no state religion at all, just science, logic, and good sound morality. In twenty years, we would be colonizing the Moon. In fifty: Mars, its moons, and the Asteroid Belt. One Hundred: We'd be heavily researching a robust form of FTL. One Thousand? We'd be spreading across the Galaxy, spreading the Light of Humanity with us...

The idea is to let go of your dick before you post.

As others have said, I'd lose the Aryan Superman rhetoric and concentrate on the 'Crusade against Bolshevism'.


While rearming (and directing it into the areas others have already mentioned), I'd draw the Poles into an anti-Soviet treaty. That'd free me up from worrying about the British and the French when I crash across the Soviet border along with my Austrian, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Romanian, and Finnish allies.

In fact, if the USSR could be provoked into attacking Finland or Poland, that'd be my excuse to 'unleash Hell'.

Mussolini can hold my coat.

My troops would be armed with StG45 assault rifles that were developed in the mid-30's instead of 1942-45 (the concept dates back to WW1). Panzerfaust antitank rockets would have been developed earlier as well.

And instead of wasting time and effort in developing the Panther, I'd order that the T34 be copied and 'product improved' for reliability and ease of maintenance by Porsche and upgunned with the 88mm if it'd fit, or a copy of the Russian 85mm if it wouldn't.

Of course this assumes that my espionage system can get hold of the plans to the T34. If not, well then we develop the Panther and Tiger a few years earlier than IRL.

Since war with the west isn't in my plans, I wouldn't devote too many resources to the Navy at this point. Defeating the USSR would be the main priority.

In this 'alternate Hitler' scenario, he'd be just one more authoritarian ruler on a continent filled with them and would be decidedly the lesser of the 2 evils given a choice between a Nazi or a Communist victory in Europe.

The Western powers would stay neutral in this situation. Stalin wouldn't have lend-lease to supply him with material to replace that which will be lost in the western USSR.

Propaganda also would play a part. I'd invite western journalists to accompany the Northern armies when they liberate the arctic gulags.

My troops would be under orders to be 'decent' to the civilian population and act as liberators of the Russian people from the depridations of the Bolshevik regime and the NKVD.

Once Stalin has been defeated (or killed in a coup and his successors sue for peace), then I can rearm and either attack France or just use diplomacy to get Alsace and Lorraine back into the Fatherland.

Darth Fanboy wrote:I shave my moustache

You win.

IMHO, the key to being a 'successful' Hitler is knowing when to stop.

Glocksman wrote:While rearming (and directing it into the areas others have already mentioned), I'd draw the Poles into an anti-Soviet treaty. That'd free me up from worrying about the British and the French when I crash across the Soviet border along with my Austrian, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Romanian, and Finnish allies.

But at this point aren't the Poles and British Allied against Germany?

No, because I don't antagonize and threaten the Poles like Hitler did in real life. Instead I play on their fears of Stalin and paint them as a noble ally in the anti-Bolshevik crusade.

The T-34 isn't a tank that could be produced easily, considering German shortage of neccesary resources like Aluminium. Better to go ahead with the Panther, especially when one considers the primitive nature of the gunsight on the T-34 vs the Panther.


IMO, victory over the Allies rest in a few simple maneveurs.

Join hands with Italy immediately in dominating the Mediterran, if not, convince her to attack Malta immediately after the fall of France. Charity, Faith and Hope can kiss my ass goodbye.

Focus Barbarossa into an attack designed to take over Ukraine. Centre job would be to attack into Ukraine, North to advance and link up to Finnish forces, thus linking the front and creating defences to help protect the northern flank from troops in Moscow, South stragetic targets to assist in taking overKiev and the protection of Centre flanks. Create defences that will help in winter and more importantly, focus on building up stockpiles of food and ammunition. To achieve this,pirority needs to be given to railway troops and infantry to secure the railway lines.


Last but not least, most important of all, written in Big Red Bold Letters painted on the Reichstag .

DO NOT DECLARE WAR ON AMERICA!

You are taking the matter of Japanese taking Russia faaaar to easily. Russia lost the 1903 war with Japan, but that's because Russia was the aggressor. Imagine how stretched the Japanese supply lines would be. Its a huge country. Weak technologically, but superior in numbers (and with some brilliant leaders) - they could easily push Japanese back.

Remember Napoleon? And Hitler? And they were trying from the west side, considering Moscow is in Europe. Now imagine how it would look like from east - Soviets would be able to trade LOTS of territory for time, and when Japanese supply lines are stretched, BOOM. And no more Japanese.

SyntaxVorlon, your idea of

Bomb the hell out of the British coast and navy with the Uboats and the bomber squadrens.

was actually called Operation "See Lowe" (Sea Lion) and it...kinda...failed.

Also, I have my doubts about building a huge aggressive military power without proper "hate propaganda". Soviets used capitalists as scapegoats, Hitler did that with Jews and Slav races.

I would take Poland, France, maybe part of Czechoslovakia - and stop. Allies didn't really give a shit about Poles - and British probably would be quite happy to see French have their butts kicked. Defending against Soviets would be tricky, I would have to give it a deeper thought. Then ally with Brits and Americans, guarantee peace and begin building economical and military power. Soviets would still be a threat, so maybe idea of engaging Japan in war with Russia isn't so bad.
After all, the best guarantee of my empire being big, strong and everlasting is economical strenght. And I don't really want the whole world for myself, because frankly I doubt that I would be able to hold control for more than 50-100 years.

That's at least how I see it.

EmKay wrote:
I would take Poland, France, maybe part of Czechoslovakia - and stop. Allies didn't really give a shit about Poles - and British probably would be quite happy to see French have their butts kicked.

Funny that they declared war over a country they didn't care about and that Britian sent its army to France.

They didnt. Allies sat on their laps while Poland was defending itself. They DID in fact declare war on Nazi Germany (according to the pacts between Poland, France and Britain) but Brits and French did absolutely NOTHING (SitzKrieg, as was it humorously called). Poland surrendered (to fascist Germany and Soviet Russia) in October, while the first hostilities against France (Operation "Fall Gelb") began in April 1940. Brits sent their army to France because they wanted to stop Nazi's at that point. And at that point Poland was wiped off the map, being a property of Germans and Soviets. Apart from declaring a war on Germany, Allies did nothing. Remember the famous/infamous words "We will not die for Gdansk?". Its French.Gdansk is a city in the northern part of Poland, located on Baltic's shore, where the Nazi's first salvo from Cruiser "Schleswig Holstein" was fired on Polish fortifications on Westerplatte.

If I offended anybody, please accept my apologies as it was not my intention. It's just the history the way I've been taught - at school and from my own reading. I don't want to start a discussion which will bring up political and historical POV's differences - it will end as a flamewar probably, calling each other names. Im interested in history, but I also regard it as past time and I don't think that we should blame anyone for anything now.

EmKay wrote:They didnt. Allies sat on their laps while Poland was defending itself. They DID in fact declare war on Nazi Germany (according to the pacts between Poland, France and Britain) but Brits and French did absolutely NOTHING (SitzKrieg, as was it humorously called).

The French need to mobilize their army, which required three weeks. However they did launch an attacking using what was available on September 7th in the Saar. It however didn't go well and convinced the French they needed to wait an assemble there whole army, least it be destroyed in pieces. Even when fully mobilized the French only had about 70 divisions available for operations, with which to attack about 44 German divisions manning the Seigfired line. Though in fact allied inteillgence reported total German strength as over 200 divisions, with far more then 44 in the west. At the time of the Saar attack the French had 57 divisions available against 34.6 German divisions with nine more moving into position.

Those are not winning ratios, nothing France or Britain could do would have saved Poland, but an overly hasty attack could have very badly weakened the allied armies in the west. Though the BEF couldn't get its first corps into position before early October.

Poland surrendered (to fascist Germany and Soviet Russia) in October, while the first hostilities against France (Operation "Fall Gelb") began in April 1940. Brits sent their army to France because they wanted to stop Nazi's at that point. And at that point Poland was wiped off the map, being a property of Germans and Soviets. Apart from declaring a war on Germany, Allies did nothing.

I've already covered that, and of ocurse then theres the whole Norway thing.

Icehawk wrote:6) Would initiate an atomic bomb program similar to the one the US did very early in the 1930's. Einstein will not have left Germany because their would not be any anti semitism and our gov't would be funding and supporting him and his teams well.

A few thoughts: an ultra-nationalist Germany might still have Einstein leave. We'll still get other scientists from various other places. Secondly, Einstein was never on the Manhatten Project - I'm not sure how much assistance he'll be outside the theoretical physics he usually worked in.

8 ) Once all is said and done, I attack France from the very beginning instead of Poland. With our vastly superior forces, weapons tech and intelligence to what Germany had in real history, France will be surrendering quicker than anything. After that, Britain and the rest of Europe fall within 1.5 or 2 yrs at most and a strong buffer zone has been put up between Russia and us.

Germany is not taking the United Kingdom even with all of this in hindsight. You still have to deal with the Royal Navy, and your technological programs may not prove decisive even with all of the hindsight you historically have.

But in the event that the british somehow manage to hold out against our superior tech and forces for longer than they should their are at least 5 A-Bombs ready and more in the making to force their and anyone elses surrender by early 1945.

Of course, if the US enters the war they'll have their own atomic programme and with such an early point-of-departure, may very well have a transcontinental bomber more advanced than the OTL B-36 ready to rain down their own nuclear weapons on Germany.

9) Once Europe is taken and secured, we, along with Japan, pincer strike Russia in a massive assault from both sides. Since we have been providing Japan with weapons knowledge and tech for years, their forces will be of similar quality and power to our own and they wont be tied up fighting anyone else.

Not neccessarily. You'll have to build up their industrial infrastructure first, which is no easy task. Then you'll have to deal with America vs. Japan when that inevitably comes around - and Japan will lose.

Also, what of the economics of Germany? You can't pour too much money into such projects without destroying her economy - and historically, they required national conquest to keep feeding capital into it. Plus, when other nations start seeing your frantic, early armament programs they could well follow suit.

One interesting outcome might be to prod Stalin into invading Poland earlier than usual, thus making it seem as if Germany was merely countering the Soviet threat...

And of course, cutting out the "purges" would help PR immensely.

Crayz9000 wrote:One interesting outcome might be to prod Stalin into invading Poland earlier than usual, thus making it seem as if Germany was merely countering the Soviet threat...

And of course, cutting out the "purges" would help PR immensely.

I think that some of the NSDAP's more unsavory activities would be needed to keep in power and ensure that your policies go in line. Otherwise, you might just find yourself kicked out of office (forcibly, if need be) before you can fufill the 'Invade France and Win' requirement.

Trouble is this,
Would a leader who is not driven by Hitlers insanities want to do what hitler did. I would want to increase the battle strength of my forces but woudl I want to attack everybody in sight.

3) Provide tank developers the right ideas and incentives to build our tanks like the T-34 right from the very beginning instead of the boxy primitive stuff Germany had at first.

I would specifically disgree with this, their Mk IV tank was a pretty good tank actually. I have read a book where one Mk 4 was able to take out multiple T-34 tanks.

Kitsune wrote:Trouble is this,
Would a leader who is not driven by Hitlers insanities want to do what hitler did. I would want to increase the battle strength of my forces but woudl I want to attack everybody in sight.

Possible motivations could include wanting to forge a reborn Prussian empire, or re-forging the "Holy Roman Empire".

phongn wrote:I think that some of the NSDAP's more unsavory activities would be needed to keep in power and ensure that your policies go in line. Otherwise, you might just find yourself kicked out of office (forcibly, if need be) before you can fufill the 'Invade France and Win' requirement.

I wasn't referring to those kinds of purges. I meant the ethnic cleansing.

no ethnic cleansing bullshit for one. if i want to take over the world, i'd go for the quickest and most efficient means possible.

First, i'd start going after the satellite countries that nobody really gives a shit about, claiming buffer zone purposes. Make a non-agression treaty with russia, that way they won't be motivated to do anything against you. The last thing you want is a war on two or more fronts.

next, make an alliance with italy immediately. the more allies you can get on your side the better. once you have as many satellite countries and allies as you can, you concoct a scenario with france that gives you an excuse to invade them, and make you appear justified in doing so. After claiming the territory, you put your own heads of government in place so to firmly take hold of it, while leaving the general overall governmental system intact. no need to upset the populace to the point where they'll rise against you. after all, it was strictly a military affair.

then, you start by locating all the major 'bread basket' suppliers of food in europe, and having third parties begin decimating their food supplies, while your countries' food supplies remain intact. a hungry country is no good in a fight after all. Concoct a similar scenario with england as what happened to let you take over france, except with a few slight alterations. Give them an ultimatum to surrender.

If they refuse to surrender, which is most likely, don't attack them directly. Instead put up coastal blockades around the country, denying any ships to enter or leave, and attack their food sources.

Eventually they'll get to the point where they either starve to death, or surrender to you, as you have the only major source of food in the continent and nobody else is allowed to supply.

Don't get other big powers, such as america involved, and leave japan out of the conflict. they're too far away to offer much aid, so may as well sign a non-agression pact with them as well. After all, you're dispensing justice. their countries wronged you, and the other countires don't have any right to interfere. If you can make your situation seem most sympathetic, you'll likely get the most aid.

Darth_Zod wrote:no ethnic cleansing bullshit for one. if i want to take over the world, i'd go for the quickest and most efficient means possible

First, i'd start going after the satellite countries that nobody really gives a shit about, claiming buffer zone purposes.

Just what Hitler did. Sooner or later the Allies are gonna say 'enough'.

Darth_Zod wrote:Make a non-agression treaty with russia, that way they won't be motivated to do anything against you. The last thing you want is a war on two or more fronts.

Hitler did that. You'll only give Stalin time to consolidate his forces, allow the time for the Red Army to recover from the purges, and get flooded with The Horde. With new leaders in place, the Red Army will be pretty much unstoppable, especially if you tie up your resources blockading England.

Darth_Zod wrote:next, make an alliance with italy immediately. the more allies you can get on your side the better. once you have as many satellite countries and allies as you can, you concoct a scenario with france that gives you an excuse to invade them, and make you appear justified in doing so. After claiming the territory, you put your own heads of government in place so to firmly take hold of it, while leaving the general overall governmental system intact. no need to upset the populace to the point where they'll rise against you. after all, it was strictly a military affair.

You'll get resistance anyway. France was historically very lightly governed (relatively, of course), and there was still a sleek and efficient resistance, especially when supplied with aid from Britain.

Not to mention that your scenario is nearly exactly what Hitler did, and it didn't really work out for him

Darth_Zod wrote:then, you start by locating all the major 'bread basket' suppliers of food in europe, and having third parties begin decimating their food supplies, while your countries' food supplies remain intact. a hungry country is no good in a fight after all. Concoct a similar scenario with england as what happened to let you take over france, except with a few slight alterations. Give them an ultimatum to surrender.
If they refuse to surrender, which is most likely, don't attack them directly. Instead put up coastal blockades around the country, denying any ships to enter or leave, and attack their food sources.

Unfortunately, blockades only work if your navy isn't outmatched by your enemy, and if your air force can effectively cover your ships from enemy attacks. It won't work if you want to cover the entire British Isles. What makes you think Churchill will just sit on his ass while Kriegsmarine turns back every merchant vessel? You've already invaded France!

Sure, you can try intercepting convoys on the Atlantic. Wait, someone did that already, and failed...

Darth_Zod wrote:Eventually they'll get to the point where they either starve to death, or surrender to you, as you have the only major source of food in the continent and nobody else is allowed to supply.

Or they strike a Lend-Lease deal with the US, you loose many ships attempting to hold the blockade despite the RAF attacking your heavy vessels constantly. Then, the Roayl Navy rules the sea, and the Allies can project power much more effectively.

Darth_Zod wrote:Don't get other big powers, such as america involved, and leave japan out of the conflict.

How do you do that? Japan will get pissed off after Roosevelt introduces the oil embargo, and the Lend-Lease act will happen anyway. Any blockade is impossible to hold, the Royal Navy has a firm hold on the Channel, and the Soviets will attack by 1943. In other words, you're still as screwed as historical Germany.

Darth_Zod wrote:they're too far away to offer much aid, so may as well sign a non-agression pact with them as well.

Too bad America is already involved in world affairs, and will not stand idle while your country distorts the balance of power on the continent.

Darth_Zod wrote:After all, you're dispensing justice. their countries wronged you, and the other countires don't have any right to interfere.

Of course, Hitler said the same thing. It didn't stop the USA from getting actively involved in the war nearly from the beginning, did it?

Darth_Zod wrote:If you can make your situation seem most sympathetic, you'll likely get the most aid.

Yeah, sure. After invading France, blockading the British Isles, destroying most of the food sources ont he continent and striking a deal with Stalin, everyone will view Germany as the good guys