Return of the City State (Versus Style)

[Stravo]

The Greek style city state returns as central governments collapse around the world (who cares why) The major cities inherit whatever was in their city when the government vanishes.

What major cities immediately become dominant in terms of trade and warfare. Does NYC become the Athens of the East Coast or does Norfolk rule with its vast preponderance of military naval vessels?

Does LA rule the waves on the West Coast?

What about major cities in Canada, are they reduced to client stated of the larger cities to the south or can they fight to maintain theri independence.

Armies would have to limited to the poeple that can be raised by teh city's population so a population powerhouse like NYC or LA would have massive (relatively speaking) land armies. But the cities that have army bases would have modern militray equipment to offset numbers differences.

To be clear here a citystate will also include the suburbs radiating around it so NYC may encompass a tristate area while Boston would have all its burbs as well.

*God, PLEASE let me go home.

BTW our European brothers are allowed to play too. Does London conquer Oxford to begin forming a single Island nation again or do the Scots sweep down to get revenge on the English cities? Etc.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I don't know, but my city, San Antonio, has 3 or 4 air bases on in it, as well as Fort Sam Houstin and National Guard station, so I think we'll do fine.

[Darth Wong]

The Greek style city state returns as central governments collapse around the world (who cares why) The major cities inherit whatever was in their city when the government vanishes.

What major cities immediately become dominant in terms of trade and warfare. Does NYC become the Athens of the East Coast or does Norfolk rule with its vast preponderance of military naval vessels?

NYC wins economically, and Norfolk is taken along for the ride. Attacking NYC would serve no purpose for Norfolk and cost them in the long run.

Does LA rule the waves on the West Coast?

Don't know that much about California's economic balance (except that it's really fucked up right now).

What about major cities in Canada, are they reduced to client stated of the larger cities to the south or can they fight to maintain theri independence.

Toronto is actually larger than most of the cities to the South. It is behind only Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Mexico City in terms of North American metropolis cities. It is most likely that the entire "golden horseshoe" around the west end of Lake Ontario would become a single city-state, extending to a portion of western NY state including Buffalo.

Armies would have to limited to the poeple that can be raised by teh city's population so a population powerhouse like NYC or LA would have massive (relatively speaking) land armies. But the cities that have army bases would have modern militray equipment to offset numbers differences.

This assumes the cities would immediately go to war. Since an essentially unarmed country like Canada can hold its own economically against the US despite having no military leverage whatsoever, I would say that this should not be a major factor unless there's some particular reason for major hostilities.

To be clear here a citystate will also include the suburbs radiating around it so NYC may encompass a tristate area while Boston would have all its burbs as well.

*God, PLEASE let me go home.

What the fuck are you doing there, then?

BTW our European brothers are allowed to play too. Does London conquer Oxford to begin forming a single Island nation again or do the Scots sweep down to get revenge on the English cities? Etc.

Well, at least we can say with some certainty that Paris will surrender to somebody.

[The Cleric]

Do you think that Paris will pull a pre-emptive surrender to the Germans or Dutch bellhops first?

[CmdrWilkens]

DC Collapses under the weight of the slowly decaying former federal government. Baltimore loses what was once a proud health care system and, already #1 in two different venereal diseases, begins a steady population decline that decimates the region. The surrounding suburban cities turn lawless and begin infighting over the resources of the Potomac and the Chesapeake Bay with Annapolis emerging as a new powerhouse dominating trade up and down the Chesapeake, challengin Norfolk in a series of wars piting the superior land forces of the former DC area against the Naval Control of Norfolk/VA Beach. After a series of fights reminiscent of the Punic Wars Annapolis gains unrelenting control of the Bay and the DelMarVa penninsula becoming THE power in the central Atlantic seaboard.

Challenges will undoubtably arise with Richmond (as it seeks to dominate the Appalachians, However with a population advantage and a thrivin trade abroad by sea Annapolis will be able to hold them at bay (no pun intended) while Philly and New York fight each other (and New York likewise Boston) thus keeping the northern frontier along the Susquehanna largely seren even as the Newark/Wilmington/Newcastle state tries to continue to exist with pressure from both sides and residents fleeing to the neutral (and increasingly decadent) Atlantic City.

[Stravo]

Well, at least we can say with some certainty that Paris will surrender to somebody.

I can't BELIEVE I missed that one. Good one Mike. And I'm stuck here waiting foir a client's approval on some papers. UGH.

[Stravo]

SNIP

NNIIICCCEEE. I would read that book if you wrote it.

[CmdrWilkens]

SNIP

NNIIICCCEEE. I would read that book if you wrote it.

Maybe I should write it, or alternatively we could all write scenarios,. Picture this: We have a lead scenario, the means by which the Federal Government collapses in the US and manages to take most of NA and the EU along with it for the ride (easiest scenario imaginable: Bush wins re-election ) Following this are a series of multi-chapter mini-stories (perhaps 3-4 chapters a piece) telling the story of a given individual city as it stakes out its claim in this brave new world. We could designate certain cities as receving treatment (while leaving others to die at the mercy of those writing for other cities). Colelct these into a long edited book and present it dfor publicaiton...I think it might even sell.

[HemlockGrey]

Philadelphia enlists its clueless white suburban population to begin a methodical campaign of conquest and integration into the new empire. Territories that surrender voluntarily will recieve numerous perks, including real cheesesteaks and the ability to park in the middle of the road.

[Darth Fanboy]

San Diego would be the dominant city of the lower west coast. With its Military bases and an economy thats fairly strong.

[Sebastin]

Nice Scenario. Well, for the start it would be a matter of simple survival for most cities. Modern cities are not self sufficient after all. They depend on the surrounding country for power supply, drinking water, food, waste water treatment (equally important) and so on. Even if some of the corresponding facilities can be captured they will be located far outside city limits and very difficult to defend. Not that it matters much since few city-states will have any hope of supplying their power stations for any notable amont of time ,what with oil-fields being very rare in cities and all. Other, more vital, ressources may be even more difficult to sustain. New York for example depends on tens of thousands square kilometers of land in upstate new york to sustain its water supply. It is very doubtfull that it would be capable of protecting that and continue operation of the entire system (without power, no less) and without fresh water supply new york is screwed. Any current economic strength won´t matter much either since curren production is far to spread out and dependent to survive such a fragmentation which woul make any trade and freight transport indefenitly more difficult and dangerous and therefore costly.

Ergo, the relative status of the cities will depend not on their current importance but on how well they are suited for this new world and especialy how well they manage to do during the collapse which would be the time where future power structures are formed.

Considering all this my beloved hometown, Berlin, is extraordinarily well prepared for such a scenario. Not only is berlin already a city-state, it was completly isolated up until ~14 years ago with reintegration still just starting. The city is self-sufficient in power supply, fresh water supply and waste water treatment, all of which within city limits, as well as having a still largely self sufficient industry. It also provides all other functions required to sustain a population (basic food production, recreation, education (3(!) full blown universities), etc ) within city limits.
On top of that up until ~10 years ago the city actively prepared for an extendend blockade to the point that food reception cards for the entire population were already printed and kept ready for use. While preparations were stopped then most of the constructed facilities are still in place, meaning storage space for enough oil and coal to keep the city running for two years and storehouses for corresponding amounts of food. All this could be quickly brought back to use. There also are public accesible drinking quality hand operated water wells every ~200 or so meters in the city. Citizens of berlin would probably hardly notice the change.

[Stravo]

SNIP

Very good analysis Sebastin, you brought up points I did not consider and of course this puts pressure on cities like New York to exand into surrounding territories quickly if they are to maintain a standard of living that they are used to. Thus we get conflicts and wars between the city states.

With armies like the 405 Manhattan of the 14th New York engaging the 58th Albany over the reservoirs in the North while simultaenously holding off probes from the South as the Philadelphia Irregulars try to incoroporte parts of South Jersey.

[Col. Crackpot]

what we are also forgetting is the possibility of tiny hamlets like Moose Shit Junction, Wyoming or Whogivesafuckistok somewhere in the former Russia becoming massive nuclear powers with all of the missle silos left behind.

[Robert Treder]

what we are also forgetting is the possibility of tiny hamlets like Moose Shit Junction, Wyoming or Whogivesafuckistok somewhere in the former Russia becoming massive nuclear powers with all of the missle silos left behind.

We can say that the base commanders, upon seeing the dissolution of Mother Russia (for reals this time), commit suicide and destroy the launching equipment, and they seal the silos behind T3-style blast doors. That's an effective plot device that should keep that nasty little bug down.

Especially since if we say that Russia doesn't have these same city-state problems, then some even bigger problems arise, namely Moscow running the world, rather than Moose Shit Junction.

[CDiehl]

It's most likely that after a few years or decades of chaos, order would resume. The largest and most aggressive cities would maintain their independence and conquer or annex large numbers of smaller towns and cities to supply their needs. They would have to hire armies of mercenaries, mostly former soldiers or police, to provide protection at first, but eventually, the most stable city-states might declare themselves nations and establish national armies.

Movements to reunite the USA (or some idealized version of it) might begin to appear as the chaos dies down. Some cities, such as Washingtn D.C. might declare themselves the USA and attempt such a reunion by force or diplomacy.

It's hard to say how large corporations would be effected. If they are devestated by the collapse, they might support the new status quo in order to rebuild. If not, they might support restoring a single government, either a continuation of the old one or some particular city's government, in order to restore the old status quo.