You rule the Roman Empire

[Setzer]

Through some funky twist of fate, you have been sent back in time, just before Commodus took the throne. You have been crowned Emperor/ess in his place. You and the Praetorian guard have been made into immortal demigods, with the Praetorians under your absolute command. They're little more than robots, so they won't go killing you if you don't pay them enough.

What changes do you make to allow the Empire to last longer?

[Lord Pounder]

Don't make the christians into maryters and thus christianity will die off and my empire won't become pussified. After that I'll go to an all you can eat orgy. Romans new how to party.

[Setzer]

Stay home and have orgies. That'll lead to a strong, eternal empire...
well, it will solve any possible manpower problems, but otherwise...

[Pablo Sanchez]

I assume you want to avoid disrupting the technological development too much, so:

I do my best to set up an effective peace treaty with Parthia.

I enact a vigorous reform of the army, including greater emphasis on training and drill. All men will be required to maintain a higher state of conditioning than before (regular forced marches to build endurance, etc.). Benefits for soldiers are also increased to make it a more attractive option for Roman citizens. I oppose any effort to incorporate foreigners into the legions proper and include them only as auxilia.

Since I am a man from the future and a demigod, I hereby invent the stirrup and massively expand the cavalry. I have a lot of good plains area in Gaul, the Po valley, and Anatolia, and if I want more cavalry, I can get it.

I encourage religious toleration.

I improve the defenses along the Danube and Rhine as much as is fiscally feasible.

Wait until the Germans arrive, followed closely by the Huns, and hope for the best. I'll have a better drilled army not rotting from the inside, and including a massive cavalry contingent equipped with stirrups; my troops will additionally have the benefit of some good fortresses along river lines. If I can get a good general in command it's very possible for me to win.

[Lancer]

Through some funky twist of fate, you have been sent back in time, just before Commodus took the throne. You have been crowned Emperor/ess in his place. You and the Praetorian guard have been made into immortal demigods, with the Praetorians under your absolute command. They're little more than robots, so they won't go killing you if you don't pay them enough.

What changes do you make to allow the Empire to last longer?

Get rid of lead plumbing and lead-based glazes in pottery.

Go and set up alliances with other major powers at that time (ex. China, Egypt), gradually either incorporating them into the Empire or making them vassal states.

Let Israel be it's own little vassal state, under the protection of Rome but still independently ruled.

Take over Norway, Sweeden, Denmark, found a Naval academy there.

Expand Naval fleets, introduce capital ships based upon Chinese and Viking ships of the time, use local ships designs for smaller patrol craft.

Build on the ruins of Greece, have the remains of Sparta be a military academy to train an officer corps, have Athens be a school for science and technology. For example, explore primitive gunpowder, Greek fire, and alloys.

[Solauren]

First, I update them on math. There are a few quirks in roman math my latin teacher told me about that I'd have to have ironed out.

I agree with not turning the Christians into martyrs

Actually, I would legalize the religion, and summon the leaders to me, and offer them a chance to found a roman province based on there religious teachings. I'd let them set that up in England, or possible France or Germany, knowing that should negate either the christians, or the future barbarian hordes.

Next, I'd give Israel a little more freedom, and let them know it's by my will they get it.

Next, I'd order research into the sciences, and encourage intelligent thought.

I'd also be very tempted, if I'm 'Highlander' immortal (the opening post said Demigod, which implies powers IMHO, but I'll get into them later), to, in front of the religious leaders, do the old 'die and then get up' trick to convince them I'm am there diety. That should keep rebellions down.
I'd slowly build the major religion of the Empire into worshipping ME. What quicker way to get everyone behind me then proving I'm there god?

Now then, back to developments
First, I'd aim for making better armor, as well as firearms. Much like when I play "Civilizations", I'm aiming for Gunpowder, armor that can take most sword and bow shots, razor sharp weapons, electricity, and refrigeration.

I envision a Roman army, with the soliders also having bolt action rifles, and swords on the level of a true mediveal era Katana. (a roman gladius with that level of edge and structural strength)

During this weapons development phase, there will be no offensive actions, and the word will be spread that the new roman emperor-god is giving new knowledge to his people.

When my armies were up to the level I want them, it's time to march.

I'd also set up a system where the local provinces are under there own laws, with Imperial law overshadowing them. Like this

native of the province: Under provincal laws
Visitor/non provincal citizen: Under Imperial law, except where there is no Imperial law covering a local condition.
i.e provincal age of consent is 16, Imperial law is 14. A non-provincal native can't be charged with doing another non-provincal native that is under the age of consent for that province, but they'd better not touch the local 15 year old's.
Also, Imperial law can over-ride local law and the desire of the government, (i.e me)

That way, conquered lands don't really notice a chance. I'd slowly get all the laws to line up over the course of the next 100 years. Quicker if when the first generation of a conquered province seems ready to embrace the changes.

I'd also have experiments conducted I hope would lead to a primative telephone system or teletype. That could take a while, but I'd prefer not to expand unless I need to go conquer someone that is pestering me until that is ready.

I'd also start research into flight and better naval ships (1800's era ships are my short term goal) and then keep the Empire going on technology.

This is off course all dependant on what resources I have when I get there.

Oh, and find a few woman for my harim that are not inbreed roman noblewoman *(unless they are smoking hot)*

[jegs2]

What changes do you make to allow the Empire to last longer?

Is there a way to introduce the Industrial Revolution a couple thousand years early? Did the technology and materials exist, but the right ingredients just not combined?

[RedImperator]

Through some funky twist of fate, you have been sent back in time, just before Commodus took the throne. You have been crowned Emperor/ess in his place. You and the Praetorian guard have been made into immortal demigods, with the Praetorians under your absolute command. They're little more than robots, so they won't go killing you if you don't pay them enough.

What changes do you make to allow the Empire to last longer?

Get rid of lead plumbing and lead-based glazes in pottery.

And replace them with what?

Go and set up alliances with other major powers at that time (ex. China, Egypt), gradually either incorporating them into the Empire or making them vassal states.

China is thousands of miles away across some of the most inhospitable terrain on Earth. It's literally a multiyear journey to get there. Egypt is the personal property of the Emperor of Rome. Parthia is in tatters--in 40 years, the Sasanians will overthrow the monarchy and reestablish the Persian Empire, which will most decidedly want nothing to do with an alliance with Rome. The German barbarians will break treaties whenever it suits them.

Let Israel be it's own little vassal state, under the protection of Rome but still independently ruled.

Palestine is a Roman province. The Jews have been thoroughly crushed and scattered to the four winds. Israel won't exist in any way, shape, or form until 1948.

Take over Norway, Sweeden, Denmark, found a Naval academy there.

Scandanavia has no natural resources the Romans can use and a poor climate, and it's filled with angry natives who will contest every inch of Roman expansion. Conquering these lands will cost a fortune that the Empire will never recover.

Expand Naval fleets, introduce capital ships based upon Chinese and Viking ships of the time, use local ships designs for smaller patrol craft.

And do what with them? And how are you paying for all these? You're coming to power in 180 AD--Rome is already running out of money.

Build on the ruins of Greece, have the remains of Sparta be a military academy to train an officer corps, have Athens be a school for science and technology. For example, explore primitive gunpowder, Greek fire, and alloys.

Athens and Sparta are doing quite well, thank you. And why build academies all the way over there? Any national military academy or universit (totally foreign concepts to the Romans, by the way) will be built in Rome.

[CmdrWilkens]

Couple thought here and one note:

First the note...by this time Egypt is a wholly owned Roman province, not one to be treated with. Egypt was conquered by Augustus in the wake of Antony's defeat.

Anyway changes:

The major change that would need to be made is agricultural reform. In the later empire the consistent problems with the hugely landed classes exploiting their power to block retiring soldiers from receiving their land grants created a great deal of problems. By securing the ability to hand out land to retiring soldiers (in addition to citizenship to those who serve 20 years) I would secure the support of the Army AND of a large new base of citizenship which tends to support me and my chosen senators (who are sitll little more than patsies but useful patsies).

Next on the list is the conquest of Germany which should never have been abandoned. Varus was an incompetent who beleived that his uncle-in-law Augustus wouldn't send him anywhere dangerous. Anyway this means I need some COMPETENT governors and certainly there are not but a few Roman Generals and civilian administrators around and one of them has to be up to the task of pacification. By preemptively moving into Germania and colonizing it you place the frontiers much further out AND you secure your defenses on terrain much mroe favorable to the legionaire style of warfare.

Furthermore the additional land and resources of Germany proper would enrich the government and allow me to feed the desire of the citizens for bread and circuses, though, again, with the advent of agricultural reform we would be looking at more farmers and fewer peasants in Rome. Thus at the expense of a few of the highly landed I can secure a viable middle-class in Rome, and Italy in general, which will be ebtter able to stabalize the mood of the city and country than expensive games and circuses. I can also, therefore, start reducing some of the festivals in prominence and exchange prominence for favors from various members of the Roman priesthood.

Christianity with its ideals and thoughts shoudl be largely ignored. It presents no threat because its adherents in this age do not have the kind of agressive leadership they will obtain in the Medieval world. They are, as a whole, largely poor and subsit on recruiting from amongst the lower classes. With the diminuation of the lower class in numbers and real poverty (along with the rise of the middle-class) one might guess that Christianity would start transforming into something like modern protestantism...that is claiming many people's hearts but hardly an active force on the international stage (the Pope has power but how much do Baptist Bishops wield? miniscule by comparison). By not fighting them they lack the martyrs to rally for aggressive action and are left, eventually, content to spread their message without seeking to disrupt the orde of things.

While all this is occuring some effort will need to be made to come to terms with those pesky Scots who keep makign Britannia such a pain in the arse to rule. So long as I am seeking the pacificaiton of the Germans it can wait so I will seek peace with the Scots even at the price of minor territorial concessions. Now, of course, once I've finished dominating the Germans its time to turn back to the Scots (after a few years of rest and recupperation for the legions). With my ability to concentrate a huge amount of new resuources to the campaign I'll overrun them and begin Romanization the odl fashion way andfinally secure Britannia against further disruption ('lest those Irish be stupid enough to journey across the Irish Sea and die).

All this would completely secure my northern and northeastern fronts elaving only the troublesome Balkans and the equally problematic east to deal with and excepting problems from the Chinese I shoudl be safe with my empire lasting to challenge the Mongols at the Golden Gates of Kiev.

[RedImperator]

What changes do you make to allow the Empire to last longer?

Is there a way to introduce the Industrial Revolution a couple thousand years early? Did the technology and materials exist, but the right ingredients just not combined?

No. They don't have the technology to make steam engines, Herodotus's toy aside. You'd have to teach them eighteenth century metallurgy first because they're incapable of building vessels that can withstand high pressure steam. Frankly, though, it would be a pointless exercise. Labor is cheap in the Roman Empire--why would anyone make the capital investments necessary to build a factory when slaves cost less and reproduce on their own?

You COULD introduce water powered textile mills, which might just have a niche, but don't expect to see railroads, factories, and steamboats for a long time.

[kojikun]

The first thing I would do would draw up a constitution for the Empire that institutes a form of government tht is more equal and definitely has merit-based elligablity requirements for the various positions of government so that none of this Senator-Patronism stuff could happen like it used to. The constitution would have various guarantees of civil liberties and such.

Then I would start an education reform. The masses would be provided with educations to make them more productive and able citizens. There would also be a large effort into researching the sciences and similar stuff. State-funded research and development would attempt to cross the gulf between Roman and 19th century technology. Perhaps the first thing would be electricity and magnetism. These would not be terribly hard to develop using Roman technology, they would just require knowledge of what to look for.

I would also attempt to introduce some new economic and philosophical forms. If I were able to bring with me a translator and some books, perhaps a copy of Wealth of Nations and Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead. Job creation would be one of the most important things; with well paying jobs, the people of Rome would be able to spend on non-necessary things (i.e. luxuries like clothing, jewelry, furniture, toys, entertainment, etc). This new demand for products would give incentive to create new and better products (things like the cotton gin, for instance, would be very appealing to farmers, as it would reduce the workload on any given worker and allow them to work on a larger number of things, increasing production).

I would also stop expansion, and perhaps hold local elections to see whether outlying provinces would choose separation. If they did, I would let them go, for the sake of preventing uprisings and waste of military resources. To the north, in parts of Gaul and Germania, I would attempt to secure proper relations with kingdoms there, so that the barbarian invasions in the fourth and fifth centuries would not occur. That's really all I can think of right now.

[CmdrWilkens]

<snip>I would also stop expansion, and perhaps hold local elections to see whether outlying provinces would choose separation. If they did, I would let them go, for the sake of preventing uprisings and waste of military resources. To the north, in parts of Gaul and Germania, I would attempt to secure proper relations with kingdoms there, so that the barbarian invasions in the fourth and fifth centuries would not occur. That's really all I can think of right now.

The barbarian invasions of the 4th and 5th century (and the early 3rd as well) were the result of unrest caused by local factors that you, as a non-governing Emprorer not in charge of those lands) have NO POWER over. THose kingdoms will end up forcing each other out many times over resulting in the barbarian invasions that would rack Rome. Furthermore the Romans DID try and treat with those kingdoms (even allowing for some refugee tribes to settle in their territory if they accepted Roman rule) it proved a disastrous experience that led to the death of the Emperor Valens (IIRC) and was probably the last nail in the coffin of the Western Empire.

[kojikun]

Well, if that is the case, then I would either a) attempt to get the Germanic tribes to stop their childish bickering, or b) conquer them and force them to stop.

[CmdrWilkens]

Well, if that is the case, then I would either a) attempt to get the Germanic tribes to stop their childish bickering, or b) conquer them and force them to stop.

a) isn't gonna work because they hate you and b) is tough to do but realistically the only option, the question is how are you going to finance it.

[kojikun]

a) isn't gonna work because they hate you and b) is tough to do but realistically the only option, the question is how are you going to finance it.

Immediately, I doubt I'd be able to. But we're not going to face invasion for a while, so we have time to build our economy up into a mighty force. I think I'd take tips from South Korea and its modernization during the 60s and 70s in order to make Rome an industrial nation. We won't have steam engines just yet, but given some time we will. Some metallurgy books would be useful as well. If mechanized industrialization isn't an option then factories with assembly workers would suffice. Anything to provide jobs and stuff. We need to get people to have expendable incomes, and it just won't happen without better jobs.

[Faram]

Some nods on how modern medicine works would save a loads of soldiers, and a healthy population is more productive.

[Pablo Sanchez]

a) isn't gonna work because they hate you and b) is tough to do but realistically the only option, the question is how are you going to finance it.

Even then, IIRC the Gothic tribes are from the northern shore of the Black Sea and are too far away to be subdued. The Huns will drive the Goths into the Roman Empire, and then they'll follow them in.

Realistically, a conquest of Germany will at best give the Romans a buffer zone to work with, and at worst it will critically weaken their army, exhaust their finances, and force them to deal with dissidents raiding out of the thick German forests.

[Darth Yoshi]

1. I would ignore the Christians. At this stage, they're simply a minor cult that isn't worth my attention. Without martyrs, they'll never achieve the momentum to threaten the Empire. That they won't pay the Olympians lip service is irrelevant.
2. Economic reform is next. The government will be the only customer for farmers, and they will be paid a set price for each bushel. The price will be determined by inflation during the previous year. Hopefully that will prevent the runaway inflation that plagued Rome in its later years.
3. None of this dividing Rome in two shit. I'll divide the Empire into several large sectors, and each of those into progressively smaller sectors, who will all be governed by men of merit, all reporting to me. Their appointments have to be approved by me.
4. We may be in the Pax Romana, but that's no excuse for the army to grow weak. Generous severance packages as long as you don't get a dishonorable discharge--geared at keeping people in the military as long as they can fight effectively--and rigorous training to weed out those unfit for the military should give me a superb military and keep it that way.
5. Tying into the lucrative military benefits, all soldiers will receive at least basic academic training, as well as having a wide variety of civilian skills to learn for after their service.
6. Once the military is ready, I take Germania. Keeping the visible Roman presence to a minimum and avoiding abrupt assimilation attempts should keep the populace content enough for assimilation a few generations down the road, or at least keep them from joining the barbarians.
7. Governmental reform. No career politicians. Ever. One Senator for each major sector of the Empire, each serving only up to two terms in his lifetime. Also, anyone can run for Senator, and those who do are encouraged to do so. Mudslinging during an election will be an offense worthy of impeachment.
8. Somewhere down the line, I'm going to hold massive orgies. I admit it.

[fgalkin]

Well, Marcus Aurelius came closest to conquering Germania, IIRC. Since I'm to repalce Commodus, that means I'm already at the front lines. I'd continue the campaign. If I'm not able to conquer Germania, at least I'll weaken them enough so that the pressure on the Western froniter decreases. That will enable me to transfer the frontier troops into the field army and re-train them., which wil enable me to lead another expedition to Germania.

In the long term, I will kick out the barbarians and the Christians out of the army. I would introduce the stirrups and increse the importance of cavalry. Having horse archers would be nice as well. I would re-train the field army to the level of efficiency it had in Octavian's time. I would also increase the imperial beurocracy to handle the needs of the army. I would also create a military academy in Rome and require all prospective officers to take a course there to ensure an average level of competence.

In the even longer term, I would start a re-settlement program bringing the Germans into the Eastern provinces and replacing them with Easterners, Itlalians and Illyrians. I would also try to bridge the gap between the Roman populace and the army (altough I have no definite idea on how I'm going to do that). Chrisitans will be denied Roman citizenship, and banned from owning property, or serving in the army. I will not do anything to make them martyrs, however.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[kojikun]

I've been reading up on the Pax Romana and it seems that during Augustus' rule, slave labor was loosing its usefulness. Slaves were, apparently, decreasing in number making farm work more difficult. Don't know how much that affected the end of the Roman Peace but it's definitely a potential reason for Roma to welcome industrialization.

[CmdrWilkens]

a) isn't gonna work because they hate you and b) is tough to do but realistically the only option, the question is how are you going to finance it.

Even then, IIRC the Gothic tribes are from the northern shore of the Black Sea and are too far away to be subdued. The Huns will drive the Goths into the Roman Empire, and then they'll follow them in.

Realistically, a conquest of Germany will at best give the Romans a buffer zone to work with, and at worst it will critically weaken their army, exhaust their finances, and force them to deal with dissidents raiding out of the thick German forests.

However the expansion of the frontier does a couple things:

1) Conquest begets conquest. Whenver you start geting on a roll (and with the Romans they go on LONG rolls) its hard to stop. The welth derived from conquering Germania would certainly be fuel enough to drive into the Russian steppe and along both the Black and Baltic coasts. The Germans had the advantage of terrain and incompetent Roman leadership to stop the advancing legions. Take those away back in 9 AD and the Romans wouldn't have stopped until they were past the Urals. WHile our time frame is later in the Empire the strength rekindled from victory might be enough to propel the EMpire at least that far.

2) The defensive terrian of Germany would have been of great help and as a buffer zone it might have easily served the purpose of keeping the Gothic tribes at bay. At the very least it gives an additional layer of rivers serving as natural barriers which can be easily fortified and thus increasing the chance of successful resistance.

3) Above and beyond all of this a large reason for the collapse against the othic tribes was a sort of wearinessin the Western half of the Empire which lead to defeats such as Valens in battles that were winable and would, likely, have led to the total destruciton of many of the barbarian invaders. Give the Romans their pride (and a little bit of reform to help promote a middle and working class) and they will again be the ionvincible machine of the opening of the AD era.

[The Cleric]

Chrisitans will be denied Roman citizenship, and banned from owning property, or serving in the army. I will not do anything to make them martyrs, however.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Have something against Christians?

[Setzer]

Yeah, by making them all second class citizens, you ensure that those who are Christians hate your rule. The poor don't really have much to lose anyway, they may join and aid an insurrection that you ensured would happen.

Thanks for making me a second class citizen, asshole.

Anyhoo, to specify the meaning of demigod in this thread:
You are immortal.
You are invincible. Weapons will still affect you, but you will not feel any pain, and you cannot die from them. So yes, the whole "die and get back up" deal will work. You can basically drink a gallon of cyanide and not even get a stomachache.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Yeah, by making them all second class citizens, you ensure that those who are Christians hate your rule. The poor don't really have much to lose anyway, they may join and aid an insurrection that you ensured would happen.

Let me hand you a little factoid of history: The Christians never revolted against Roman authority, even when official Imperial policy was to massacre Christians, burn them alive, or feed them to ravenous animals. How in the FUCK do you think that a generally passive policy of marginalization is going to piss them off enough to force a revolt?

You might ask: Why didn't they revolt? I'll tell you why, and it's not just because of their pacifism, as some might think. (recall that as soon as the Christians became powerful, they proved to be as aggressive as any pagans the world had seen).

For many, many decades after the reign of Commodus, Christians weren't concentrated or numerous enough to make any sort of viable revolution. Even during the reign of Constantine, after centuries of building and massive publicity gained from their martyrs, they composed merely a large minority of the urban populace. Constantine supported the Christians because A) he was one, and B) they constituted a disproportionate percentage of wealthy city-dwellers. In Rome, political power came from the wealthy city dwellers, and by being nice to pagans and Christians simultaneously, Constantine could draw an extra 25% or so of the urban population to his side.

You may recall that Constantine refused to be baptized until his very last moments--most likely because he feared alienating the vast rural population and the majority of city dwellers who remained pagan. During his reign, at most a quarter of the population was Christian. This was after centuries of strenuous missionary work and massive publicity via martyrdom. An immortal Emperor who engages in a policy of peaceful marginalization of the Christian problem would probably limit them to a very small minority of the population, say... under 10%?

(later Christian emperors imposed limits on the rights of pagans to worship, and gave aggressive state support to Christian missionaries, which eventually--by the Fall of the Empire--raised the Pagan:Christian ratio to a more comfortable level.)

Thanks for making me a second class citizen, asshole.

Discrimination against Christians is based on legitimate state-building principles. Christians refused to recognize the supremacy of the state, lived in their own secret society and were more loyal to it than to Rome, and they undermined Imperial authority and unity by their missionary work.

[Pablo Sanchez]

However the expansion of the frontier does a couple things:
SNIP

I see what you mean, and I concede the point--though I contest the minor side issue of an infantry army conquering all the way out to the Urals. It would be possible but the time and expense required, when compared with the benefits, are minimal. I expect that the Romans would stop expanding into the trackless steppe shortly after taking the black earth belt.