Singapore vs 1865 Earth

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-12-28 05:22am

The Island of Singapore has been transported to the year 1865. What happens ? Do Singapore take over the world ?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-28 05:41am

I suppose you mean Singapore as it stands now? The country would be very fucked economically, but it should be able to dominate the more developed nations. However with only a few million people it couldn't come close to occupying them, so outright conquest isn't a real attractive option.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-12-28 06:23am

Sea Skimmer wrote:I suppose you mean Singapore as it stands now? The country would be very fucked economically, but it should be able to dominate the more developed nations. However with only a few million people it couldn't come close to occupying them, so outright conquest isn't a real attractive option.

Yes modern day Singapore is what I meant.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-12-28 08:00am

We're fucked left right and centre, as we don't have the oil to fuel our LSTs on the way to take over America

Why is it that people have this extreme view about Singapore? On one hand, there're those who think that we're just another undefended Hong Kong, on the other, there're those who think we're a mini-power.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2003-12-29 08:52pm

well now that you've interested me I will have to research Singapore

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-12-29 09:02pm

Are they more or less screwed than before if they're sent further back to 1250 BC? How would their performance compare to Nantucket's?

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-29 10:43pm

The further back in time they travel, the more buggered they are, frankly. As soon as they run out of avaialble raw materials (steel, oil), they're either going to have to make their own, or do without. Unless someone can prove Singapore is sitting on top of an oil reserve and is able to bring the necessary equipment to bear, they're going to be out of power quickly. When they run out of power, all the manufacturing and much of the food processing goes out the window, and with high urbanization, they'll be forced to leave the buildings as they won't be able to be repaired after a few decades.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-12-29 11:05pm

You're assuming they'll just try to live like they always lived until it blows up in their face. If they play it smart and ration modern energy sources until they can establish new ones, they'll survive. They also have, literally, tons of resources locked up in their buildings. They could survive, and thrive, as long as they make some long-term planning.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-12-30 03:56am

The Aliens wrote:The further back in time they travel, the more buggered they are, frankly. As soon as they run out of avaialble raw materials (steel, oil), they're either going to have to make their own, or do without. Unless someone can prove Singapore is sitting on top of an oil reserve and is able to bring the necessary equipment to bear, they're going to be out of power quickly. When they run out of power, all the manufacturing and much of the food processing goes out the window, and with high urbanization, they'll be forced to leave the buildings as they won't be able to be repaired after a few decades.

South east Asia is rich in resources, think of Indonesia and Malaysia. Singapore can easily seize control of them in a 1865 Earth. For starters they can take over Malaysian oil fields.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-30 04:32am

PainRack wrote:
Why is it that people have this extreme view about Singapore? On one hand, there're those who think that we're just another undefended Hong Kong, on the other, there're those who think we're a mini-power.

Well you basically are compared to the other states in the area, though the fact that Malaysia could take your air force out of play with 120mm mortars is pesky.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-12-30 09:35am

Non-issue. They'll run out of modern munitions too fast if they try to conquer the entire world. Most probably, they'll make money hand over fist selling modern technology to various global factions.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 12:56pm

Conceded that they can ration modern supplies and make a much better go of it, but they'd still be in trouble over the interim- converting whatever sorts of energy (likely coal and crude oil) they can get to their current power generation systems.

otter · Post by **otter** » 2003-12-30 02:32pm

Raxmei wrote:Are they more or less screwed than before if they're sent further back to 1250 BC? How would their performance compare to Nantucket's?

He-heh

Man I loved that series by S. M. Stirling

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-12-31 03:54pm

I'm with Painrack. We're fucked without enough food, oil, and any sort of raw material to sustain ourselves. How much land was required back in 1865 to sustain 4 million people? Quite a bit more than nowadays, obviously.

Unless we somehow manage to get hold of Malaysia and its resources with the British breathing down our necks!!!

If we appear in some other geographical location, it'll depend on what's available and who's nearby. If it's oil rich and agriculturally viable, we'll have a slim chance of conveting our available machinery to extract the resources and form a defensive alliance before somebody else comes after us with enough force to wipe us out. It's very slim. No, 1865 would be far too difficult, and nations sufficiently advanced that we've no real chance.

Now, if we appeared near medieval China(parallel to Nantucket near Europe), then you're talking total world domination. Finally freed from our restrictions of limited resources and with the same intensive investment we have in our people with education and kiasuism(meritocracy), we'll be invincible! Our leaders, like LKY, will finally get the chance that was denied to them: to take over the world!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

*chokes*

The Wobbly Guy

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-31 06:51pm

The_Nice_Guy wrote:I'm with Painrack. We're fucked without enough food, oil, and any sort of raw material to sustain ourselves. How much land was required back in 1865 to sustain 4 million people? Quite a bit more than nowadays, obviously.

Unless we somehow manage to get hold of Malaysia and its resources with the British breathing down our necks!!!

That wouldn't be very hard, the British are likely to give in pretty quickly when they see there ironclad battleline blown away by a couple corvettes and missile boats.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-01 04:36am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
The_Nice_Guy wrote:I'm with Painrack. We're fucked without enough food, oil, and any sort of raw material to sustain ourselves. How much land was required back in 1865 to sustain 4 million people? Quite a bit more than nowadays, obviously.

Unless we somehow manage to get hold of Malaysia and its resources with the British breathing down our necks!!!
That wouldn't be very hard, the British are likely to give in pretty quickly when they see there ironclad battleline blown away by a couple corvettes and missile boats.

IIRC Singapore also has attack submarines. They would be useful as a psycological weapon as the British find themselves engaging an invisible enemy.

And with Singapores high quality industry replacing spent missiles and torpedoes wont be a problem.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-01 04:37am

EDIT : Fixed typo in previous post.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2004-01-01 09:02am

evilcat4000 wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
The_Nice_Guy wrote:I'm with Painrack. We're fucked without enough food, oil, and any sort of raw material to sustain ourselves. How much land was required back in 1865 to sustain 4 million people? Quite a bit more than nowadays, obviously.

Unless we somehow manage to get hold of Malaysia and its resources with the British breathing down our necks!!!
That wouldn't be very hard, the British are likely to give in pretty quickly when they see there ironclad battleline blown away by a couple corvettes and missile boats.
IIRC Singapore also has attack submarines. They would be useful as a psycological weapon as the British find themselves engaging an invisible enemy.

And with Singapores high quality industry replacing spent missiles and torpedoes wont be a problem.

It's retaining control of the resource feed areas that's the problem. We need those resurces to replenish our bullets and missiles.

Perhaps you guys are confident about our chances, but I see a vicious and nasty guerilla war in the jungles not at all to my liking. You think the indigenous folks of wherever we turn up(except China) like having a bunch of chinese pushing around?

Perhaps it's better to be a pessimist.

The Wobbly Guy