Giving money to the poor.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-28 11:40am

You're walking down the street. You're in the city, and as usual you're rushing from one place to another, with a whole lot of people rushing with you or towards you. You're not really paying any attention when you hear someone call out: "Spare some change?" Then you see a grubby man wearing worn out clothes with his hand held out and a look of ages in his eyes.

So what do you do? I usually give a dollar but sometimes I lie and say I don't have anything, and then walk away - sometimes not even coming to a complete stop, just slowing my pace then quickening it again; and I feel ashamed at myself for doing so.

I was wondering what other people do in said situations. Do you tell him to fuck off? Give him the dollar? Give him five dollars? Ignore him and continue walking? Stay out of the city?

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-12-28 11:44am

Well here in US giving a buck for a fraction of the time it takes to work for that dollar is seriously giving them free money. If 5 people gave 1 dollar each in say 30 minutes, he has just made $10 an hour.

You wouldn't believe the amount of money they get begging for money because it all soon accumilates and I say fuckem.~Jason

Mitth`raw`nuruodo · Post by **Mitth`raw`nuruodo** » 2003-12-28 11:53am

As Soontir said, here in the US, these people make a good living off donations. They aren't unable to get a job; they just make more money not having one! It's not that hard to get a job folks, it really isn't.

So I say fuck 'em. In most cases (there are certain times when you know someone really needs it... but even then I don't like giving 'em money), they can pull weight easily, get a job and stop begging. If they don't, that's their own problem.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-12-28 11:55am

If he looks grimy enough I'll toss him some spare change.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-12-28 12:02pm

What annoys me is when one of them will ask "Can you give me a quarter to take the bus" or "Can you give me a quarter to buy coffee".....when they should tell the truth "Give me money so i can get drugs"

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-28 12:20pm

Homeless in San Francisco are a big problem. I stopped giving money a long time ago. Some are truely down on their luck and need help. But it is impossible to tell them apart from those who have mental problems, drug problems, alcohol problems, etc. As for being able to get a job, even if they could most dont have the skills needed to get a job that would provide enough money for shelter.

There is a segment of the homeless here that like the lifestyle as hard as that is to believe. They dont take advantage of the shelters because then they would have to follow rules. Other than San Francisco you dont see too many homeless. Oakland and San Jose (this regions other 2 big cities) dont have as many.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-12-28 12:22pm

I'm polite, but I never give out change. I just outright lie and say I don't carry change. I "only" use my debit card if further clarification seems needed.

IMO, there aren't really any valid excuses for living on the street. You're either stupid, an alcoholic, a drug addict or all three. None have my pity.

I say they either straighten out or get processed in a fertilizer factory.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2003-12-28 12:23pm

Montcalm wrote:What annoys me is when one of them will ask "Can you give me a quarter to take the bus" or "Can you give me a quarter to buy coffee".....when they should tell the truth "Give me money so i can get drugs"

I try to keep a bus token in one of my pockets for just such an occasion.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-28 12:31pm

I will not give a single penny to one of those fuckers. We have a generous welfare system in this country, and if they don't want to go on it, that's their fucking problem. I feel no guilt whatsoever because I support that welfare system with my tax dollars, which means that I am already helping out the poor.

GO ON WELFARE, YOU FUCKERS. That's assuming they're not ALREADY on welfare and are using this in order to get more money. When you see these assholes camped out on certain "spots" regularly, you begin to see that it's obviously supplemental income for them, particularly if you know somebody who works at the liquor store and who can tell you that they come in there at the end of the day to spend their "earnings".

The only time I give money to somebody on the street is if he's doing something to earn it, like a street musician. Sitting there with your cap in hand and asking for my money is merely proof that you're a fucking useless shit.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-28 12:51pm

Darth Wong wrote:We have a generous welfare system in this country, and if they don't want to go on it, that's their fucking problem.

How generous is the welfare system there? SF attracts homeless from surrounding areas because they just give out cash instead of services. This is a big issue in SF. Some people want to change the system and some dont. It was a central issue in the mayoral election. Im soooooo glad I dont live there.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-28 12:57pm

The thing is, I've only ever had some old guy ask me for spare change, and the older you are the harder it is to get a job (at least, that is my understanding of it - my father has taken forever to get a job, but for a long time he simply wasn't looking so I still kinda shrug at it). In these situations I'm more inclined to give a dollar to an old guy, or feel ashamed if I don't, and I've yet to have some guy my age or slightly older ask me for dosh.

In those situations I'd tell the guy "no." If I can get welfare then so can he; it's not that hard to wake up one morning, head down to the social security office, and sign a few papers and sit through a few seminars.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-28 01:01pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:How generous is the welfare system there? SF attracts homeless from surrounding areas because they just give out cash instead of services. This is a big issue in SF. Some people want to change the system and some dont. It was a central issue in the mayoral election. Im soooooo glad I dont live there.

Down here in Melbourne you get money every fortnight, but you have to hand in a form that says you have been looking for work in the past fortnight, or if you couldn't then here's the reason why you didn't (usually of a medical nature). All the while you have to fill in a job-seeking diary, for the inevitable day they want to review you. There are employment agencies which will offer free help to find a job, work out a resume, work on interview skills etc. But the quality ranges, as does the effectiveness.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-12-28 01:06pm

Entertain me. If they can't they don't get anything from me. When I can smell alcohol on the fuckers from 10' away they ain't getting shit from me, I walk on past as if they don't exist. Same thing with the guys sitting there in the same spot every day with their hats out. Entertain me, play me some music, dance a jig for me, do a magic trick, whatever, then I'd have a reason to donate to them.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 01:14pm

Given the kind of homeless people at home (those that are just drifters and don't give two shits about trying to help themselves - at least most of the time) and the fact that I have walked the streets asking for change myself, I usually don't give out money to anyone. Most of the homeless people I come across are visibly alcoholics.

~ver

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 01:16pm

Stofsk wrote:The thing is, I've only ever had some old guy ask me for spare change, and the older you are the harder it is to get a job (at least, that is my understanding of it - my father has taken forever to get a job, but for a long time he simply wasn't looking so I still kinda shrug at it). In these situations I'm more inclined to give a dollar to an old guy, or feel ashamed if I don't, and I've yet to have some guy my age or slightly older ask me for dosh.

In those situations I'd tell the guy "no." If I can get welfare then so can he; it's not that hard to wake up one morning, head down to the social security office, and sign a few papers and sit through a few seminars.

Until you've got such unemployment issues where you're barred nationally from getting food stamps, like I am.

~ver

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-12-28 01:26pm

Of course, if you're really too old to be working, and still living on the streets, that's stupidity to me. Gotta love natural selection.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-12-28 01:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:I will not give a single penny to one of those fuckers. We have a generous welfare system in this country, and if they don't want to go on it, that's their fucking problem. I feel no guilt whatsoever because I support that welfare system with my tax dollars, which means that I am already helping out the poor.

GO ON WELFARE, YOU FUCKERS. That's assuming they're not ALREADY on welfare and are using this in order to get more money. When you see these assholes camped out on certain "spots" regularly, you begin to see that it's obviously supplemental income for them, particularly if you know somebody who works at the liquor store and who can tell you that they come in there at the end of the day to spend their "earnings".

The only time I give money to somebody on the street is if he's doing something to earn it, like a street musician. Sitting there with your cap in hand and asking for my money is merely proof that you're a fucking useless shit.

You know, we need more Canadians like us, Mike.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 01:30pm

Robert Walper wrote:IMO, there aren't really any valid excuses for living on the street. You're either stupid, an alcoholic, a drug addict or all three. None have my pity.

Or you're not. Because I came [---] this close to couch hopping cos the economy in Albuquerque is so bad you have to have managerial experience to get a job. And yes, I tried fast food. It is possible to be overqualified. It's called having a high school diploma, there. _ _;;

~ver

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-12-28 01:36pm

Generally i ignore them, but there was one guy when i was at uni. me and some mates were getting lunch and when we came out of the sarnie shop he got the drop on us and tried to sell us a Big Issue*. He told a few jokes and made us laugh so i bought one.

*For the benefit of people who don't know what the Big Issue is: I don't know the specifics but the Big Issue is a magazine that is made and then given to homeless people to sell to make money rather than begging.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 01:38pm

Mitth`raw`nuruodo wrote:As Soontir said, here in the US, these people make a good living off donations. They aren't unable to get a job; they just make more money not having one! It's not that hard to get a job folks, it really isn't.

So I say fuck 'em. In most cases (there are certain times when you know someone really needs it... but even then I don't like giving 'em money), they can pull weight easily, get a job and stop begging. If they don't, that's their own problem.

Four words: Easier said than done.

~ver

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-12-28 01:41pm

verilon wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:IMO, there aren't really any valid excuses for living on the street. You're either stupid, an alcoholic, a drug addict or all three. None have my pity.
Or you're not. Because I came [---] this close to couch hopping cos the economy in Albuquerque is so bad you have to have managerial experience to get a job. And yes, I tried fast food. It is possible to be overqualified. It's called having a high school diploma, there. _ _;;

~ver

Well, every situation is unique Verilon. You don't strike me as the wandering on a street bumming for money person at all(you seem to have access to a computer anyhow).

To be honest, I live in Canada, same as Michael Wong, so my experience is limited to there. Our welfare system would allow someone to get on their feet even if they had a string of very bad luck. The problem with bums here is laziness and stupidity, both of which I'm not particularily fond of. Well, laziness, I am fond of, but not to their degree.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-12-28 01:48pm

2000AD wrote:Generally i ignore them, but there was one guy when i was at uni. me and some mates were getting lunch and when we came out of the sarnie shop he got the drop on us and tried to sell us a Big Issue*. He told a few jokes and made us laugh so i bought one.

*For the benefit of people who don't know what the Big Issue is: I don't know the specifics but the Big Issue is a magazine that is made and then given to homeless people to sell to make money rather than begging.

We have the same thing here in Montreal...the magazine is called L`Itineraire and the price is 2 dollar for it,its more a magazine size weekly newspaper,but not all homeless get in to sell it.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 01:52pm

Robert Walper wrote:Well, every situation is unique Verilon. You don't strike me as the wandering on a street bumming for money person at all(you seem to have access to a computer anyhow).

Most of my activity from the from the time I joined until about May was actually university access, and still a bit here and there after that.

Although I am sure I've more insight into the matter than most, I've still not (thankfully) been so homeless as to actually not have anywhere to stay. However, I've been in a lot of contact with other teenagers and young adults that have spent months trying to find a squat to consistently stay at. -shrugs- (Note: Most of these kids are indeed trying to get themselves out of those situations)

To be honest, I live in Canada, same as Michael Wong, so my experience is limited to there. Our welfare system would allow someone to get on their feet even if they had a string of very bad luck. The problem with bums here is laziness and stupidity, both of which I'm particularily fond of. Well, laziness, I am fond of, but not to their degree.

-nods- The US system is for shit, I am sure of that. I can't get Food Stamps for another two years (in April) because I haven't been able to find a job (on the record, as in pay stubs and W-2s) and I have not collected unemployment or social security (not that either of those are exactly easy to get, mind you).

~ver

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-28 02:06pm

verilon wrote:-nods- The US system is for shit, I am sure of that. I can't get Food Stamps for another two years (in April) because I haven't been able to find a job (on the record, as in pay stubs and W-2s) and I have not collected unemployment or social security (not that either of those are exactly easy to get, mind you).

What are Food Stamps, and how do you, well... survive? (you said you don't have a job and don't collect social security, so I'm just wondering. I don't mean to pry.

)

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2003-12-28 02:54pm

I don't lie and say I have no money, I simply state (politely) that I do not give money to worthless bums who believe they are entitled to my hard earned money that I would rather burn than give to them.

OK, I don't really say that, but I never give bums money. It's funny, at my local Barnes and Nobles, there's this one bum who's always got some sob story to lay on the guilty yuppies to get cash, but when I tell him to (politely) fuck off, he gets real indignant, as if I owe him money. Usually says something about Jesus.

I could see myself being homeless, but I can't ever see myself begging for money. At the least, I'd do street readings, or play my guitar if it was that bad while I looked for a real job.