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Someone suggested that one could deal with JW's by dressing up as a Trekkie and trying to pass of Trek as an official religion, and the question occurred to me: Why not take that seriously? Why isn't the Force or Star Trek worthy of being an official religion?

Is it because they're fictional? So is every other myth. Is it because they came from fictional entertainment authors? So did Scientology.

They have multitudes of followers, they teach about things that don't exist, and any attempt to disprove their validity would also disprove the validity of every other religion. So why not?

I say that SW and ST should be considered legitimate religions. They even have fanatical followers

If I remember correctly, there was a large number of write-ins for the "what is your religion" section of the official British census. Apparently the fastest growing sect is "Jedi."

If it wasn't the British census, please feel free to correct me.

I believe that for there to be an "official" religion, there has to be some sort of form/order/hierarchy. I could be wrong, though, as I have been before.

*shrug* Whatever floats your boat.

Ha. Some may say believing a fictional movie is silly but so is believing a book a few thousand years old! Some may say GL made it up, but he is really unknownly helping spread the word of the Force!




And the government is opressing the Jedi and Sith! We have rights too!

If Star Trek is a religion, then who is the God? The Prime Detective? What is the religous service? Watching the show 5 days a week? What is the holy book? The TM?

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:If Star Trek is a religion, then who is the God? The Prime Detective? What is the religous service? Watching the show 5 days a week? What is the holy book? The TM?

There's always that new age Bajorian crap


"I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic, to which it stands, one nation, under The Prophets, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Acutal *Jedi is now an offical Religion in New-Zeland
They ran storys on MSNBC a few years back if they keep it archive you could just go look it up if you wanted to


Acutal thats pretty Funny
Godless Space Commies is your offical religion (IE Star Trek )

For those who care, the jedi census bit can be found at:

www.jedicensus.com

It highlights what they've done so far (mostly for a laugh, but it is legal).

Also, people who actually consider themselves 'jedi' in a religious, serious, and extremely worrying manner do exist. Can't recall the link, but they're 'naturalists' who believe in various new age things not subject to empirical anythings. Try www.jedireligion.com/forum as I'm thinking that was the one I had seen earlier. The site is slow as all hell so I wasn't able to confirm it this time 'round.

You don't need a central God figure to have a religion. Just look at Buddhism. Or maybe they revere Kirk .

Darth Wong wrote:Someone suggested that one could deal with JW's by dressing up as a Trekkie and trying to pass of Trek as an official religion, and the question occurred to me: Why not take that seriously? Why isn't the Force or Star Trek worthy of being an official religion?

Is it because they're fictional? So is every other myth. Is it because they came from fictional entertainment authors? So did Scientology.

They have multitudes of followers, they teach about things that don't exist, and any attempt to disprove their validity would also disprove the validity of every other religion. So why not?

I say that SW and ST should be considered legitimate religions. They even have fanatical followers

Actually a few months ago, an article was posted on theforce.net talking about how several thousand SW fanatics had declared "the force" as their religion. I think the number was somewhere around 300'000, but I'm not sure.

If Star Trek is a religion, would it be a duty to convert people to it by using hte TM to exlain why Star Trek could beat another sci-fi series in a war?

And Scientology only has about 100,000 followers left. The support really dried up after Grand Overlord Zima^WXenu got leaked.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:If Star Trek is a religion, then who is the God? The Prime Detective? What is the religous service? Watching the show 5 days a week? What is the holy book? The TM?

The God is Gene Roddenberry. The religious service is watching the show; any show. The holy book is indeed the TM.

Besides, a religion need not fit the precise mould of Judeo-Christian religion in order to be called a religion. Try to think outside the box; there are hundreds of religions in the world.

In fact, as far as I can tell, the only real litmust test is numbers. One man is a lunatic, twenty people are a cult, and a hundred thousand people are a legitimate religion. There seems to be no other intrinsic dividing line, and no other test of validity.

Therefore, Jedi is a religion. Perhaps it could be considered an offshoot of Taoism. Star Trek is also a religion, with countless legions of followers who fervently believe that its prophecies will all come true, and that it has been guiding society and technology for decades.

Dammit, I'm a lunatic? I must recruit more Small God Keepers!

Poor Bob needs more people beleiving, or he'll never be able to smite more than lettuce.

Darth Wong wrote:Is it because they're fictional? So is every other myth.

I think the largest hurdle is that the people who believe in the Jesus myth actually believe Jesus was real, God is the ultimate power and the Bible is God's word. Star Trek and Star Wars are 'genuine' myths, ancient fables given a post-modern twist. Tell a Christian that God is a myth and note the reaction. Tell a Warsian that the Force is mythical and you'll get a wholly different reaction. We could no doubt call them both 'religions', but they'd never be accepted as such.

Tell a Warsian that the Force is mythical and you'll get a wholly different reaction. We could no doubt call them both 'religions', but they'd never be accepted as such.

Simple the reason being is a Warisy is much closer to the "God" at hand then say a Christian

IE They say a Guy named Jesus ran around preaching common sense and brotherly love and they nailed him to a stake the end
No biggy right? Lots of nuts ran around doing this at the time and got nailed to a stake
For somone who lived ten years after he bit the big one, Jesus was no big deal, cause there where alot of *Jesus running around doing the same thing

However lets skip a hundred years forward to somone who never met the guy in person and we hear
HES THE SON OF GOD!

Prophets and messaihas(With the Excption of Mohammad and Buddah are never taken seriously untill after they are dead buired and gone for awhile

Its just a fact of common religions
Sure its easy to dis Jedi as a bunch of silly guys running around with Cloacks
But what about hundred years from now when you describe it to somone whos never seen nor heard of SW and just the Concept of Jedi(Its not Jediism its Jedi)

Rare is it the religion that catchs on when its creator is still around and kicking

SirNitram wrote:Dammit, I'm a lunatic? I must recruit more Small God Keepers!

Poor Bob needs more people beleiving, or he'll never be able to smite more than lettuce.

I'm halfway tempted to start the Church of Serenity

phongn wrote:

SirNitram wrote:Dammit, I'm a lunatic? I must recruit more Small God Keepers!

Poor Bob needs more people beleiving, or he'll never be able to smite more than lettuce.

I'm halfway tempted to start the Church of Serenity

I bet I could recruit more to the Keepers Of The Small Gods than you.

Darth Wong wrote:Someone suggested that one could deal with JW's by dressing up as a Trekkie and trying to pass of Trek as an official religion, and the question occurred to me: Why not take that seriously? Why isn't the Force or Star Trek worthy of being an official religion?

Because they have no goal. Christianity has the goal of spreading the Gospel and preparing for the time Jesus comes back to earth.
Islam also has comparable goals.
The Jewish religion focussed on god and His worship.
Bushism focusses on serenity and being enlightened.
Hinduism is a closed book for me, so you got me there.


What would the goal of a Jedi Religion be? "Balance in the force"?
And what would the goal of a Star Trek religion be? "We should all be nice, pacifist, civilized and anti-capital and anti-religious"?

Is it because they're fictional? So is every other myth.

Is every myth and story fictional? Myths are stories passed on for a long time.

The fact is that Star Trek and Star Wars are obviously fictional. Hey, we are even discussing here why Star Trek is worse then Star Wars. It is easier to tell that something is fictional when it is written a year ago then when it is written 3000 years ago.

It is easier to discredit something 10 years old then it is to discredit something 2000-4000 years old.

Is it because they came from fictional entertainment authors? So did Scientology. They have multitudes of followers, they teach about things that don't exist, and any attempt to disprove their validity would also disprove the validity of every other religion. So why not?

I have never, ever met a scientology follower. I have met many budhists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and I myself am a Christian.

So I do not know much about those persons.

I say that SW and ST should be considered legitimate religions. They even have fanatical followers

And as I asked; what would be the goal of the religion? You cannot have a religion without a goal.
Sure, it would be nice to start a Jedi-Religion. But what are its teachings? What are it's goals?


And of course, the Entirety of the Holy Bible and many other of the holy books have been written by one single person or a small group of persons. Now compare that to the legion of Star Wars writers, who all seem to be intending to write about something else.

Cheers,

Meghel

What would the goal of a Jedi Religion be?

I'm suprized you can't guess it for yourself
Balance in everything, Their ideas are very Simliar to Tao
What is the Goal of Taoism? Self improvment and a increasing of spirutal peace

And what would the goal of a Star Trek religion be?

Another simple one, To Convert enough people to the wonders of ST to make Engineers start building things like Star Trek oh and to force the US to clone Gene Roddenberry back to life!

I'm suprized you can't guess it for yourself
Balance in everything, Their ideas are very Simliar to Tao
What is the Goal of Taoism? Self improvement and a increasing of spirutal peace

Unfortunately, this is what I dreaded.

Why can't they just join Taoism then? Unless they are of course only interested in a cool name. As most fans are.

****
Only appearence interested, they be.
****

Another simple one, To Convert enough people to the wonders of ST to make Engineers start building things like Star Trek oh and to force the US to clone Gene Roddenberry back to life!

Please spare me.

Before you know it, we will be swamped by Roddenberry Clones and Star Trek Engineers. Great Religion..

And that is the time we need to get the hell off of this planet. For then the end is nigh.

Cheers,

Meghel

Meghel wrote:What would the goal of a Jedi Religion be? "Balance in the force"?

You laugh, but why not? How is this sillier than preparing the Earth for the return of a guy who died 2000 years ago and prophesied (erroneously) that he would return before his disciples tasted death?

And what would the goal of a Star Trek religion be? "We should all be nice, pacifist, civilized and anti-capital and anti-religious"?

Again, how is this any sillier than the goals of other religions?

The fact is that Star Trek and Star Wars are obviously fictional. Hey, we are even discussing here why Star Trek is worse then Star Wars. It is easier to tell that something is fictional when it is written a year ago then when it is written 3000 years ago.

And a ridiculous story about the Earth being created in six days and a man living for three days in the belly of a living whale is not obviously fictional?

It is easier to discredit something 10 years old then it is to discredit something 2000-4000 years old.

Are you saying that if a myth hangs around for long enough, it magically gains legitimacy?

You cannot have a religion without a goal.

Why not?

And of course, the Entirety of the Holy Bible and many other of the holy books have been written by one single person or a small group of persons.

Incorrect. There are a vast number of people involved in the writing of the Bible, over a period spanning more than a thousand years.

Now compare that to the legion of Star Wars writers, who all seem to be intending to write about something else.

You can't seriously believe that Star Wars suffers from greater diffusion of authorship than the Bible. The Bible was pieced together.

Behold the effects of a myth that hung around long enough.

In a hundred years... Who knows? Perhaps Lucas story will have become a true religion. There's nothing wrong with the story to prevent it becoming religion. If the edicts are adhered to, we'd probably be better human beings.

Of course, anyone religious will find the concept of creating a new one.. Be it Jedi, Keeper of a Small God(Based off the ancient Roman practice of worshipping Gods of the household), or whatever. It's saying 'Okay, I can make my own irrational beleif and not have to listen to yours'.

If I get force choke I'm there....

I remember reading somewhere that Francis Ford Coppola pushed GL to try and make the Force a genuine religion when he saw ANH. Coppolla figured that hey, its the 70's there was a lot of new age stuff going down and that GL could make a FORTUNE as a cult leader with movies to back him up.

GL said no.

Kind of says a lot about both men, huh?