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Much like the story of how the Dutch bought Manhattan Island for $27 we turn that story on its head. Say an advanced alien species arrives on Earth, they send a representative to the UN where they address the General Assembly and say they want the continent of Antartica. They are willing to pay for the contintent with advances in Chemistry (uber antibiotics and panimmunity drugs), Biology (Cure for Cancer) and clean energy sources. They will NOT give weapons technology.

In exchange Antartica is no longer owned by Earth in any way and it is a sovereign nation of the aliens. They plan to build a spaceport there and the commercial traffic will be enormous and maybe Earth gets some scraps from that but otherwise Antartica is theirs.

If we don't agree they will leave peacefully and set up a similar base on the moon.


NOW

Substitute the above scenario with aliens arrive and simply plant a flag on Antartica decalre it their own. They have evolved from an artic species so they only care about Arctic climes and they add that their only interests are Antartica. They are obviously superior to us technologically.

Does Earth fight for Antartica or do we grumble and accept it.

If we do accept it how do we react when it becomes obvious they're eyeing Alaska and Canada and Siberia?

i'd be suspicious as to why they want antarcita so badly. or the moon for that matter. personally i'd agree to set it up only in exchange for allowing a human liaison to monitor activities and make sure they aren't despoiling our planet. in the name of mutual goodwill of course.

In the first scenario, I'd say we agree and then try to profit from the commercial activity in Antartica at any way possible.

In the second case, I'd say we let them have Antartica, and then immediatly begin building up massive stockpiles of nuclear weapons and preparing for full-blown war. If they make a run for inhabited territory we cut loose.

First way we agree.

Second way we demand a ton more concessions, if they don't come a couple nukes turn it into a nice tropical enviroment.

First scenario sounds a bit too much like the twilight zone episode, "To Serve Man"... I'd say no, and begin increasing the stockpiles.

Second scenario...I think we'd capitulate, but would begin increasing the stockpiles.

I'm not normally so trigger happy, but when facing aliens, who the fuck knows? At least with the commies, we had an idea of what we were facing. With aliens, we might just be another ingredient in an intergalactic soup mix to them.

The alien forces will crumble before the vast armies of the Mighty Canadian Empire!

Well, in the second scenario, I'm sure Canada would have objections. They want to claim uninhabited territory I don't see too much reason to fuss as long as they don't use it as an invasion route. But attempting to annex a major nation would cause all kinds of hell.

In the first, what exactly are they trading? That's the issue. Are they just shipping out ice? All the meteorites that can be found out there? Or is it something more? You can't have a trading post with nothing to trade.

GWBs way declare war on them then kiss your ass goodbye.

If they're obviously superior to us, we'll give them whatever the hell they want. People all over the world will bitch, but there's squat-diddly they can do about it. It's much prefereable to have them in Antractica where we can keep an eye on them and ask for profit-sharing and liasons than the Moon, where they can do whatever they damn well please without consulting us. We'd benefit from uber-chemistry and biology, and as long as they don't ruin the ecosystem, we're not using Antarctica for anything.

The second scenario is a bit difficult- but if they claim it, are obviously technologically superior, then people will deal. Most countries will rush to establish trade agreements and non-aggression pacts, and if they wnat Canada, there's no reason the Canadian government can't give territory concessions in return for technology. Assuming they don't wnat to negotiate, much of the Northern world is obligated by NATO to help us out, so cue the nukes.

Dudes, it's friggin' Antarctica. They give us a cure for cancer or AIDS, I say they can have any third-world country and a Caribbean island to be named later.

I just wanna know if those alien suckers can throw a football. The Bills need a new QB.

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, in the second scenario, I'm sure Canada would have objections. They want to claim uninhabited territory I don't see too much reason to fuss as long as they don't use it as an invasion route. But attempting to annex a major nation would cause all kinds of hell.

In the first, what exactly are they trading? That's the issue. Are they just shipping out ice? All the meteorites that can be found out there? Or is it something more? You can't have a trading post with nothing to trade.

Much like the Indians who gave up what is now one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in the world, we find out afterwards that there are sources of a previously unknown mineral locked in the ice below that their advanced equipment can get to that is one of the cornerstones of the galactic economy like say Russia selling us Alaska for a pittance and we find all that oil.

Plus we happen to lay smack dab in the middle of a major trade route that is being etsablished and we've now become a major rest stop on the Intergalactic I-95.

First off, moons ours too. Which just turns into a , they keep going to the next planet/moon scenerio. Regardless.

We accept the terms and that we gain rights to send expitions to Antartica when and if they find things we didn't know was there or couldn't get to.

Second scenerio. We stick our hands in our pockets and kick rocks for a while. What you do, is start sending envoys and diplomats. Then when everything is koscher (assuming it will reach that state) we begin getting buddy buddy military wise until we learn a way to fight them, or even turn them back. In which case a number of things must occur.

First, we have better space flight, and space defenses throughout the solar system. Give me a break kids. A nuke against a space fairing people. One that can get to our planet and use resources effectively from a chunk of ice and rock?!? What if they have something better and just wipe us off the face of the Earth? Asteroid maybe?

Second, we learn how they operate biologically. War of the Worlds anyone?

Third, thier weapons technology ASAP. If they're superior, we're fucked. End of story.

Gunshy wrote:the twilight zone episode, "To Serve Man"...

Offtopic, but that was a great episode.

Accepting it is better. We have no chance of beating a technologicaly superior race so it is better to bite the bullet and accept whatever technologies they may offer in exchange for Antartica.

Cal Wright wrote:First off, moons ours too. Which just turns into a , they keep going to the next planet/moon scenerio. Regardless.

How do we press a claim on the moon? All the aliens have to say is that no one has offically claimed the moon by both Earth law and intergalactic law. Its empty land and theirs for the taking.

SeebianWurm wrote:

Gunshy wrote:the twilight zone episode, "To Serve Man"...

Offtopic, but that was a great episode.

It's a cookbook!

Stravo wrote:

Cal Wright wrote:First off, moons ours too. Which just turns into a , they keep going to the next planet/moon scenerio. Regardless.

How do we press a claim on the moon? All the aliens have to say is that no one has offically claimed the moon by both Earth law and intergalactic law. Its empty land and theirs for the taking.

Europeans did not need any legal justification for conquering America. Similarly in this scenario aliens would not need any legal justification for claiming the moon since there is nothing we can do to argue them. We cant even go to the moon to fight them.

Cal Wright wrote:First off, moons ours too. Which just turns into a , they keep going to the next planet/moon scenerio. Regardless.

We accept the terms and that we gain rights to send expitions to Antartica when and if they find things we didn't know was there or couldn't get to.

Second scenerio. We stick our hands in our pockets and kick rocks for a while. What you do, is start sending envoys and diplomats. Then when everything is koscher (assuming it will reach that state) we begin getting buddy buddy military wise until we learn a way to fight them, or even turn them back. In which case a number of things must occur.

First, we have better space flight, and space defenses throughout the solar system. Give me a break kids. A nuke against a space fairing people. One that can get to our planet and use resources effectively from a chunk of ice and rock?!? What if they have something better and just wipe us off the face of the Earth? Asteroid maybe?

Second, we learn how they operate biologically. War of the Worlds anyone?

Third, thier weapons technology ASAP. If they're superior, we're fucked. End of story.

Indeed.In any senario earth must:
Unify, for as we are we are all vulnrable.

Do as the Japanese did in the 19th century:
Give the aliens fish soup with no fish. we gain time, gain technology, and hopefully allies other than the aliens we have here, untill we are in a position to sucessfuly challenge the aliens on our own turf.