Greatest fighter pilot ever...

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2002-10-13 05:24pm

Who's the greatest fighter pilot ever? Statistics say that it's Erich Hartmann, but then he was fighting on the Eastern Front, with loads of easy pickings from the half-baked Soviet pilots, and was shot down 17 times. What do you guys think?

KG

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-13 05:34pm

Out of the major players in WW2, the best US ace had fewer kills then the ones from Japan, Russia, or Germany.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 05:36pm

Alyeska wrote:Out of the major players in WW2, the best US ace had fewer kills then the ones from Japan, Russia, or Germany.

Because we didn't have tje kind of steady supply of easy targets that they did. Most of our guys were making fighter kills rather picking off bombers or newbie conscripts.

Darth Eris · Post by **Darth Eris** » 2002-10-13 05:40pm

The Red Baron. He was a great pilot, admired even by his enemies.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-13 05:44pm

The Red Baron: 80 kills. The next guy in WW1 was a French pilot who downed 75.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2002-10-13 05:55pm

Alyeska wrote:Out of the major players in WW2, the best US ace had fewer kills then the ones from Japan, Russia, or Germany.

Something like the top 20 fighter aces of all time are WW2 German pilots. If memory serves me right Hartmann himself took down 352 planes. That's almost the entire Pearl Harbour strike force! And he started off in 1942 as well, unlike some of the other top scorers who were already aces coming from the Spanish Civil War.

KG

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-13 06:03pm

RICK HUNTER!

Oh, we're talking about reality? In that case, Richard Bong, if only because he flew a P-38.

Otherwise I'd nominate all of the Russian females who made ace. Breaking gender barriers and leading the way for militant feminism.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-10-13 06:14pm

weemadando wrote:RICK HUNTER!

Oh, we're talking about reality? In that case, Richard Bong, if only because he flew a P-38.

Otherwise I'd nominate all of the Russian females who made ace. Breaking gender barriers and leading the way for militant feminism.

IIRC the Russians also used female snipers.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-10-13 06:24pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
weemadando wrote:RICK HUNTER!

Oh, we're talking about reality? In that case, Richard Bong, if only because he flew a P-38.

Otherwise I'd nominate all of the Russian females who made ace. Breaking gender barriers and leading the way for militant feminism.

IIRC the Russians also used female snipers.

*RayCav gets horny*

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-10-13 06:25pm

Anyway, Richard Olds. Sure, he may have barely been denied ace status, but under the conditions he was in, he's tops in my book.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 06:33pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:
*RayCav gets horny*

Isn't that your usual state of being?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-13 06:39pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
weemadando wrote:RICK HUNTER!

Oh, we're talking about reality? In that case, Richard Bong, if only because he flew a P-38.

Otherwise I'd nominate all of the Russian females who made ace. Breaking gender barriers and leading the way for militant feminism.

IIRC the Russians also used female snipers.

And anti aircraft gun crews, and all branches of the Red Army's artillery in fact. In a few cases they also served in regular formations as infantry and tank crews, but this was very very rare. They also served in combat roles in the Soviet navy.

One thing about German aces though, the German standards for awarding a kill where much more liberal then those used by the Allies. However even deviding by four, the Germans are well ahead of the top Allied pilots.

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2002-10-13 06:58pm

Roy Fokker totally owns Rick, n00b.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-13 07:11pm

Ryoga wrote:Roy Fokker totally owns Rick, n00b.
:lol:

You dare deny the coolness of Rick Hunter?

GERWALK!!!!

And you, my dear friend, are the n00b around these parts.[/u][/b]

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 07:14pm

Ryoga wrote:Roy Fokker totally owns Rick, n00b.

Dude, he has tens times the post count you do. He's no noob.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-13 07:32pm

Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-10-13 07:45pm

Your's Truely.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-13 07:47pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:Your's Truely.

*coughcough* poser! *cough*

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-10-13 08:18pm

IG-88E wrote:*coughcough* poser! *cough*

I haven't flown a fighter in over two years. I probably won't be stepping into the cockpit of a jet again for another couple of months.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-13 08:19pm

Hmmm....

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-13 08:53pm

weemadando wrote:
Ryoga wrote:Roy Fokker totally owns Rick, n00b.

You dare deny the coolness of Rick Hunter?

[/u][/b]

Max is a far superior pilot.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2002-10-14 04:41am

I can think of a few factors for the superiority of Luftwaffe fighter pilots. (By the way, Adolph Gallant is such a cool name!).

1. Good training. The Germans were actively mobilising for war the moment Hitler came into power, long before the other countries even considered the possibility of war. And the head of Luftwaffe, Goering, was a WW1 ace himself (26 kills, Iron Cross, Pour le Merite, took over von Richtofen's squadron), so he probably did know what sort of emphasis to give for fighter training. In addition, the experience gained from the Spanish Civil War probably did no harm either.

2. Good aircraft. IIRC, the Bf 109 came out a couple of years before any of its rivals, so the Germans had an excellent aircraft to play around with when the Spitfire was still on the drawing board and the USAAF was still fucking around with P-39s and P-40s.

3. More targets! By 1943 the Allies were outnumbering the Axis in the air, so Allied pilots had less targets to go around, whereas the Germans had an enormous amount of targets to deal with, particularly in the Eastern Front.

KG

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-14 04:46am

That and the German pilots had no relief. It was continue fighting or die. No wonder they got so many kills.

American pilots were rotated to teh rear after 25-30 kills so they could pass on the experience to newer pilots.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-14 05:06am

Ivan Kozhedub was the best allied ace of WW2 wtih 62 kills- he flew Lavochkin fighters (LaGG-3, La-5FN, La-7; excellent machines) and managed to bring down an Me-262 in one in 1945 IIRC.

However the notion of German pilots as well-trained was pretty much BS come 1944- fuel shortages and the unending operational tempo took its toll on the Luftwaffe and you pretty much had a massive majority of turkeys who weren't trained properly at all, and the elite hardcore aces who had been kicking around since the beginning. Even the veterans/old hands/ aces died though, because so many demands were being made of them they were getting tired, and making mistakes. Read Luftwaffe: Strategy for Defeat- it gives a good treatment of the utter incompetence that led to the Luftwaffe being gutted- pretty much Goering and Hitler's fault.

Goering= fat retard.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-14 05:17am

From what I have read, it would seem that there were major decision blunders from the top on a lot of things...

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