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BTW. Starship Troopers is (or at least was) required reading at the US Military Academy, the US Air Force Academy, the British Military Academy at Sandhurst, and the middies read it to the future marine officers at the US Naval Academy.

If so, that's pretty damn cool. I think SST posed some interesting questions and thoughts about why people serve.

I can't verify it, but I've heard that too. I've also heard that Ender's Game, of all books, is on the Marine Corp recommended reading list as well.

I don't know if it's still required reading. But it was and it's still very popular at those institutions.

Cpl Kendall wrote:I don't know if it's still required reading. But it was and it's still very popular at those institutions.

So how come we didn't see armed uprisings and surgical strikes against Paul Verhoven after the movie came out?

Trytostaydead wrote:

Cpl Kendall wrote:I don't know if it's still required reading. But it was and it's still very popular at those institutions.

So how come we didn't see armed uprisings and surgical strikes against Paul Verhoven after the movie came out?

I would imagine that the cadets and officers that read the book, hoped that the movie version would be good. After they found out that it sucked, well personal in the military are not aloud to speak out on such things. We can't say anything that could be seen as the military itself expressing an opinion.

I don't know about Starship Troopers being required reading at the military academies, but I can ask my older brother-- he's a Midshipman 2nd class at the US Naval Academy.

Also, Robert A. Heinlein was a graduate of the USNA-- it's not illogical to assume that, for a few years at least, SST might've been part of the curriculum, even if not required reading. It does certainly give a good view of a possible future military...

Trytostaydead wrote:

Cpl Kendall wrote:I don't know if it's still required reading. But it was and it's still very popular at those institutions.

So how come we didn't see armed uprisings and surgical strikes against Paul Verhoven after the movie came out?

Becuase it was a good movie?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

its reccomended for marines, last I checked.

Could someone explain why it's recommended reading? I can't imagine that uber-powersuit combat tactics are of any usefulness.

I would assume that it's because of the strategic possibilities explored in the book... it's been awhile since I read it though.

The thing is, the Mobile Infantry is essentially the Marine Corps of the SST-verse; they're designed for quick landings, rapid area securing, and just about everything else on the books. Their techniques are therefore of possible military interest; while taken literally, of course, they aren't really applicable, but if new ideas could be extrapolated, they could potentially be very useful.

Also, as far as the books being recommended reading for the USMC, I'm not surprised-- the MI has a "warrior ethos" very similar to that of the Marines. Also, their boot camp is very tough-- again, similar to the Marines... whose boot camp actually sounds like it would be LESS tough than the MI training! Think of it as being psychological reinforcement...

Darth Wong wrote:Could someone explain why it's recommended reading? I can't imagine that uber-powersuit combat tactics are of any usefulness.

The powersuit combat is only a small part of the SST experience. Heinlein used the book to explore a variety of societal questions, centrally the question of citizenship and duty to your nation. There is also a fair bit of critiqueing of 'modern'(as of when the book was written) society and its precieved short-comings. After the first chapter, you dont see any combat action until the last two or three chapters of the book, IIRC, its been a few years since I last read it.

Darth Wong wrote:Could someone explain why it's recommended reading? I can't imagine that uber-powersuit combat tactics are of any usefulness.

Heinlein is one of those rare authors that uses the setting merely as a vehicle for what he's trying to say as opposed to painting a new universe for which we can explore. The "sci-fi" part is merely incidental in his books and in Starship Troopers, the technology is just incidental and tactics are barely even discussed.

He explores why people join, why people fight. What is the value of citizenship, and why humanity is worth dying for.

"The noblest fate that a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the war's desolation."

"Men are not potatoes."

I've got a question, Mike. Have you ever sat down and actually read the book?

I have read it and I would not trust a soldier who takes the morality of Rico as he basically surrenders his conscience to his superiors.

Many of my fellow officers are Academy pukes, so I could ask them. But I won't because I would look pretty stupid for asking such a question if this whole SST thing is just a myth.

As of '97 if was on the recommended reading list in the USMC.

I agree with Trytostaydead-- SST is more a story about the people within, not the kick-ass tech (which we barely see) or the fighting against the bugs. Johnny's recollections of boot camp alone prove that-- Zim's harsh training that pays out in the end, the maturity that he and his fellow trainees reach, etc.

As sci-fi, it's not really much... the power-suit technology is a bit iffy, to say the least... but it's a really good story about the military and the people within, and what they're really like, as opposed to the stereotypical image of squareheads running around obeying orders unto death. Heinlein had military experience (USNA, and then two-three years in the Navy before invalided out due to TB), so he knew what it really was like, unlike most other military sci-fi writers. This, I think, is what makes the difference.

Wicked Pilot wrote:Many of my fellow officers are Academy pukes, so I could ask them. But I won't because I would look pretty stupid for asking such a question if this whole SST thing is just a myth.

Well, you could point them in our direction and see what happens.

Couple things:

1) Both SST and Ender's Game are still on the Commandant's Reading List (which is reccommended *wink wink* reading for Marines especially NCOs and Officers.

2) The value of both books does not lie in anything regarding tactics or technology but rather in the ethos of command and how do you train and lead soldiers/Marines.

If you read SST you'll find very quickly that it highly resembles the island hopping campaing of WWII (again nto suprising given Heinlein's background). The important points rest largely with the idea of responsibility to higher authority, taking care of your underlings, respect for the chain of command, and a lot of other ideas that are not given textbook fashion but rather absorbed throuhg a sort of morality play going on in the book. As to Rico and surrendering his conscience to his superiors thats an iffy kinda thing. Heinlein spent a LOT of time talking about Rico and his motivaitons, why he kept fighting and why he did what he did.

Anyway that's my two cents.