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In most Korean workplaces, the toilets don't have toilet paper. Instead, they keep 1 or 2 rolls of paper in the staff room.

The PC room I'm typing in now has a roll of toilet paper hanging outside the toilet door. I don't use it, of course, because the "toilets" here are just holes in the floor, and I cross the street if I want to use a real one (in one of those Big Bad Clean Western Department Stores that clueless lefties whinge about).

A Buddhist temple I visited didn't even have plumbing.

Can anyone please work this one out, because I've been here 5 whole months and I still don't have a fucking clue.

Maybe they have a casual attitude about body waste functions. The Romans' idea of bath-house toilets was a bunch of holes next to each other, with no partitions. That's right; you sat right next (we're talking elbow-bumping proximity) to somebody taking a dump. Smells and sounds and all. I guess it didn't bother them (it's not as if they couldn't have erected partitions in the bath-houses of the wealthy if they wanted to).

Darth Wong wrote:Maybe they have a casual attitude about body waste functions. The Romans' idea of bath-house toilets was a bunch of holes next to each other, with no partitions. That's right; you sat right next (we're talking elbow-bumping proximity) to somebody taking a dump. Smells and sounds and all. I guess it didn't bother them (it's not as if they couldn't have erected partitions in the bath-houses of the wealthy if they wanted to).

Through WW2 that’s how it was done on many warships. USN Standard's basically had twp long troughs with boards with holes over them as bathrooms for some time.

Darth Wong wrote:Maybe they have a casual attitude about body waste functions. The Romans' idea of bath-house toilets was a bunch of holes next to each other, with no partitions. That's right; you sat right next (we're talking elbow-bumping proximity) to somebody taking a dump. Smells and sounds and all. I guess it didn't bother them (it's not as if they couldn't have erected partitions in the bath-houses of the wealthy if they wanted to).

I'm the sort of person who can unserstand the theory of cultural difference very well (that's a good part of what I learned at university). Its just that my personal reaction to the reality of this is still one of confusion - particularly when I stop and attempt to break it down. The more intellect you use, the less you understand anything. Logically and aesthetically, I cannot reconcile the layout of most Korean public toilets with a largely conformist culture that plays so much emphasis on neatness of appearance, and where you "lose face" when you fail. Its the contradictions within the larger framework that confuse me, even more so than any of the small details taken out of context.

Rathark wrote:Logically and aesthetically, I cannot reconcile the layout of most Korean public toilets with a largely conformist culture that plays so much emphasis on neatness of appearance, and where you "lose face" when you fail.

Why not? A conformist culture is less likely to obsess over privacy, and their emphasis on neatness of appearance need not extend to an activity that is, by any definition, never neat. As for "losing face", you are imprinting the western cultural assumption that there is an intrinsic loss of dignity associated with body waste functions.

Its the contradictions within the larger framework that confuse me, even more so than any of the small details taken out of context.

They're only contradictions if you look at them a certain way.

Darth Wong wrote:

Rathark wrote:Logically and aesthetically, I cannot reconcile the layout of most Korean public toilets with a largely conformist culture that plays so much emphasis on neatness of appearance, and where you "lose face" when you fail.

Why not? A conformist culture is less likely to obsess over privacy, and their emphasis on neatness of appearance need not extend to an activity that is, by any definition, never neat. As for "losing face", you are imprinting the western cultural assumption that there is an intrinsic loss of dignity associated with body waste functions.

Its the contradictions within the larger framework that confuse me, even more so than any of the small details taken out of context.

They're only contradictions if you look at them a certain way.

Objectively, your rationalization makes perfect sense. I sometimes go through stages when I don't think as objectively as I should (especially recently, but I won't go into that just now). But your implication is right: Western culture conditions its members as thoroughly as any other culture. If anything, that's part of the problem. However, that does not make one's choice to subjectively agree with certain values and disagree with others any less relevent. We're all a product of the culture that raises us. The older you get, the more difficult it is to break the mould.

That being said, it is clear that Australia, Canada an America are relatively multicultural nations ("relatively" being the key word here) that are exposed to cultural diversity at every turn - albeit of a superficial kind. While this may be true of South Korea to a lesser extent, the average Korean's exposure to the outside world seems largely limited to movies and department stores. Caucasians are often stared at (usually by children) as if we are talking velociraptors By comparison, a West Indian in suburban Australia would barely gain a passing glance.

BTW, this link provides a fairly spot-on reflection of the typical foreign worker's attitude towards traditionl Korean toilets.

http://www.homestead.com/cathylbates/Squat_Pot.html

Rathark wrote:In most Korean workplaces, the toilets don't have toilet paper. Instead, they keep 1 or 2 rolls of paper in the staff room.

The PC room I'm typing in now has a roll of toilet paper hanging outside the toilet door. I don't use it, of course, because the "toilets" here are just holes in the floor, and I cross the street if I want to use a real one (in one of those Big Bad Clean Western Department Stores that clueless lefties whinge about).

A Buddhist temple I visited didn't even have plumbing.

Can anyone please work this one out, because I've been here 5 whole months and I still don't have a fucking clue.

at leas you have toilett paper.
the marrocans dont have toilette paper. they´ve got a pot of water next to the toilette and their left hand. that´s why shaking another´s persons hand with you left hand is considered to be extremely offensive.