StarDestroyer.Net BBS

***Warning:- The following may contain a few spoilers***

Well I saw Troy last night, and overall I did enjoy it quite a bit. Of course there were a few major changes to Homer's The Illiad, but that is to be expected when trying to change what is essentially a poem into a feature movie.

However time for the biggest rant, and what really got me fired up .... THEY CUT OUT THE BEST MONOLOGUE IN THE ENTIRE BOOK! The one that Achilleus says to Hektor just before they fight! (see my sig)

How, in the name of Zeus' butthole, can you remove one of the most brilliant lines in the entire book?! Are you dense? This was the pinnacle moment in the story, where Achilleus, deep in mourning over his cousin's death confronts Hektor to extract bloody vengence. This is where Hektor knows what Achilleus will do to this body should he fall, and pleads to him to strike a bargain to honour their customs for respect of the dead, and where Achilleus' famous temper once again gains hold of him and directs his fate into an ever spiralling despair.

Why, oh the fuck, why didn't they include the last words of Hektor, where he proffesises Achilleus death? WHY?

That's all I care to write about it now, more to follow with discussion.

4 stars out of 5 for me (would have given it more if they included the fucking scene as Homer wrote it, but hey).

Crown wrote:***Warning:- The following may contain a few spoilers***

Well I saw Troy last night, and overall I did enjoy it quite a bit. Of course there were a few major changes to Homer's The Illiad, but that is to be expected when trying to change what is essentially a poem into a feature movie.

However time for the biggest rant, and what really got me fired up .... THEY CUT OUT THE BEST MONOLOGUE IN THE ENTIRE BOOK! The one that Achilleus says to Hektor just before they fight! (see my sig)

How, in the name of Zeus' butthole, can you remove one of the most brilliant lines in the entire book?! Are you dense? This was the pinnacle moment in the story, where Achilleus, deep in mourning over his cousin's death confronts Hektor to extract bloody vengence. This is where Hektor knows what Achilleus will do to this body should he fall, and pleads to him to strike a bargain to honour their customs for respect of the dead, and where Achilleus' famous temper once again gains hold of him and directs his fate into an ever spiralling despair.

Why, oh the fuck, why didn't they include the last words of Hektor, where he proffesises Achilleus death? WHY?

NO!!!!

That's all I care to write about it now, more to follow with discussion.

4 stars out of 5 for me (would have given it more if they included the fucking scene as Homer wrote it, but hey).

Well I plan to see it this Friday come hell or highwater...regardless of some friends who scoff at it's awesomeness of Trojan war on screen.

*sniff* though about the cutting of that bit of dialogue.

Cut explaination is simple:
The reference to Ares.

In an interview, they said they worked hard to remove as much of the gods as possible to make the movie time-effective.

Having someone say that to Brad Pitt would also be to hard to not laugh your ass off about

Solauren wrote:Cut explaination is simple:
The reference to Ares.

In an interview, they said they worked hard to remove as much of the gods as possible to make the movie time-effective.

Having someone say that to Brad Pitt would also be to hard to not laugh your ass off about

Bzzzt. Wrong.

They worked as hard as possible to remove the Gods from the story as active participants. However the reference to the gods (including Achilleus mother), is prelevant all the way through the movie. Not to mention priests being active participants, decrying or praising the God's favour throughout the movie.

They cut the dialogue, because they were stupid.

I saw it a few hours ago, I was quite impressed. Felt like Braveheart and LoTR rolled into one.

Though I had to explain the whole Achilles' Heel thing to a friend of mine. I was annoyed they left that out.

Total score: 4 Shpedoinkles out of 5.

Well, we get to see it in English class on the 28th. And I don't think there are any spoilers...if anyone didn't know the story, they just...suck.
And it is sad they cut that part out...maybe the DVD will include it? Unless they never filmed it, which is just sad.

How can you leave out Achilles heel? How the fuck does Achilles die then?

Reading a lot of reviews on Rottentomatoes, it seems that a lot of them seem to invoke the WWE when talking about the film. Wierd.

Well Achilles doesn't die in the Illiad so there's not a lot of room to complain there.

LP

LapsedPacifist wrote:Well Achilles doesn't die in the Illiad so there's not a lot of room to complain there.

LP

Don't be obtuse, it's called 'Troy' not 'the Iliad'. Hence the horse.

Vympel wrote:How can you leave out Achilles heel? How the fuck does Achilles die then?

Achilles having been dipped in the Styx by Thetis is actually a rather late addition to the story, IIRC. In the Illiad, I believe there's a great deal of hubbub over someone stealing Achilles' armor, which wouldn't be a big deal if he were nigh invulnerable.

Clarification from someone who has read it in full?

Vympel wrote: Don't be obtuse, it's called 'Troy' not 'the Iliad'. Hence the horse.

Yeah, I gotta concede that one. I've been intentionally ignoring this movie to the best of my ability. I'm so impressed with the Fagles translation(1994 or 96 iirc) of the Illiad that the movie is kind of insulting.

LP

Ted C wrote:
Achilles having been dipped in the Styx by Thetis is actually a rather late addition to the story, IIRC. In the Illiad, I believe there's a great deal of hubbub over someone stealing Achilles' armor, which wouldn't be a big deal if he were nigh invulnerable.

Clarification from someone who has read it in full?

It's not theft of his armor, it's deciding who should get it after his death. It was eventually ceded to Odysseus, in preference to Ajax (who took his own life in response- must've been at least a +5 set ...)

Also, Achilles lost his armor to Hector because Patroclus took it and wore it into battle when Hector killed him. Achilles got a new set, killed Hector, and presumably took his armor back.

Crown wrote:However time for the biggest rant, and what really got me fired up .... THEY CUT OUT THE BEST MONOLOGUE IN THE ENTIRE BOOK! The one that Achilleus says to Hektor just before they fight! (see my sig)

Good. The less stuff taken directly from that aimless, long-ass "story" (for lack of a better word) the better.

In reference to the heel-

I get the impression that this is intended to be "The true story," so to speak, with teh Iliad and the like being mythologized versions of history. So no godlike magic. Without that, you don't have Achilles becoming invulnerable save for the heel, and thus th eheel isn't his only weakness.

That said, can you actually die from an arrow in the heel?

I know that it basically cripples you, at least.

Maybe he bled to death or something.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I know that it basically cripples you, at least.

Maybe he bled to death or something.

Infection's a bitch when Penicillin won't be invented for another 2000 years, eh?

Xenophobe3691 wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I know that it basically cripples you, at least.

Maybe he bled to death or something.

Infection's a bitch when Penicillin won't be invented for another 2000 years, eh?

So we have two options if we go for the heel.:

Achilles bleeds to death. Not visually exciting; I always got the impression that his death in the myth was instant.

Or infection- which might be in poor taste, given how one of the stuntmen died of an infection after breaking his leg.

Personally, I would at least have him get hit in the heel, even if it didn't kill him with that hit.

Vympel wrote:How can you leave out Achilles heel? How the fuck does Achilles die then?

SPOILER

Paris shoots his through the heel with an arrow. Then when Achilles rushes at him he gets shot a few more times in the torso. He dies.

Crown wrote:...deep in mourning over his cousin's death...

Cousin? I don't remember the translation I have ever saying that he's Achilles' cousin. Is that true? I thought he was Achilles's Second and advisor and whatnot and, quite frankly, the way he went apeshit, it seemed more to me that they were lovers.

Something else that annoyed me about Troy, I was a little let down by Helen of Troy. Personally I thought she would look more like Princess Leia.

Someone tell me Paris dies horribly. Who kills him?

Cousin? I don't remember the translation I have ever saying that he's Achilles' cousin. Is that true? I thought he was Achilles's Second and advisor and whatnot and, quite frankly, the way he went apeshit, it seemed more to me that they were lovers.

That was inserted by the screenplay to remove anyhint of homoeroticism from their relationship. Also, you wouldn't go apeshit if someone killed your best friemd?

Andrew J. wrote:

Crown wrote:However time for the biggest rant, and what really got me fired up .... THEY CUT OUT THE BEST MONOLOGUE IN THE ENTIRE BOOK! The one that Achilleus says to Hektor just before they fight! (see my sig)

Good. The less stuff taken directly from that aimless, long-ass "story" (for lack of a better word) the better.

Don't be an ass, the dialogue in question is always superb by any standard and that scene needed it. The best scenes in the movies are those that were lifted directly from Homer's works, when you eventually do see the movie, you'll recognise that as being true.

Vympel wrote:Someone tell me Paris dies horribly. Who kills him?

Someone lied.

Cousin? I don't remember the translation I have ever saying that he's Achilles' cousin. Is that true? I thought he was Achilles's Second and advisor and whatnot and, quite frankly, the way he went apeshit, it seemed more to me that they were lovers.

That was inserted by the screenplay to remove anyhint of homoeroticism from their relationship. Also, you wouldn't go apeshit if someone killed your best friemd?

Yeah sorry about that, I forgot to put the word in 'commas'. But that's about it, apparently Hollywood couldn't trust the audience enough to recognise that in Ancient Greece there wasn't this whole taboo about a best friend who you can express love for.

Also Agamemnon is turned into a 1 dimensional, raving lunatic and general from the back lines, which if we all studied our ancient Grecko-Roman history, we would know that this didn't really start happening til Caesar's time (you know 1100 odd years after Troy). ...

Crown wrote:Someone lied.

No, not someone *told* me, someone *tell* me. Do you mean to tell me that snivelling punce LIVES?! How can you give it 4 out of 5 if he does?

Vympel wrote:

Crown wrote:Someone lied.

No, not someone *told* me, someone *tell* me. Do you mean to tell me that snivelling punce LIVES?! How can you give it 4 out of 5 if he does?

The fighting/action scenes were a 4/5, the story and dialogue are 5/5 when they lift the scenes directly out of Homer's work and a 2/5 when they try and so their own (they are no Homer).

Overall the Priam/Achilleus scene was the ultimate redemer in my eyes.