StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Hey guys,

I decided to join the Army, but before that I have to get in shape a bit. Now, I had been running, and improving my time quite a bit (until I sprained my #$@$*&@ ankle.) I also am good on situps, but one thing I am having a great deal of trouble with is pushups. I can only do about 10 before muscle failure, and I really need help on what weight training I can do to improve it.

Any advice from you BTDT's or weight lifters out there?

Do them. A lot. That's the only way to get better at them

What you need to do is set a target goal. For example, can you do six push ups, rest for ten seconds, then do six more? You should set a reasonable goal like 3 sets of ten, within a certain time. Your muscles will have no choice but to strengthen up. Also, get on the bench press. Don't be intimidated by any of the muscle heads around you benching 300+ pounds; do whatever you can for now, but set a goal to improve.

Dumbell flies will help too.

I don't know how much time or money you have, but I would suggest the following.

1. Buy a big jug of whey protein. This will supply your muscles with much needed fuel for recovery. I would take two of these shakes per day (at your level). One in the morning, and one after you work out. Don't skip them!

2. Add one more meal to your daily intake. Make is something healthy like a chicken breast with some steamed broccoli and brown rice.

If you have any specific questions, let me know. I'm ACE certifed, a pro wrestler and have been lifting for a number of years.

As long as you're working to muscle failure and getting an adequate amount of protein, you should get stronger. Just make sure you don't work to failure every day.

1. Buy a big jug of whey protein. This will supply your muscles with much needed fuel for recovery. I would take two of these shakes per day (at your level). One in the morning, and one after you work out. Don't skip them!

Really, what does a jug of that stuff cost, and how long do you reckon it can last? And do you think it makes a real difference?

My high school running coach told me to do this, and it worked:

Do as many as you can do, even if that's only ten. The next day, do that plus one more. Add one each day.

The way I did it was I'd keep adding one until I reached a multiple of ten, and then I'd keep doing that number each day until I was comfortable with it. Then I'd add one a day until I reached the next multiple of ten. Repeat until satisfied. My skinny ass got up to being able to do 60 pushups in one go every day.

Then, I graduated and got lazy as hell. I could probably do fifteen pushups right now.

Yes, yes, and YES. You can get a 5 pound jug of Designer or some other brand for about 30 dollars. Order online or go to a local muscle shop, like a "Max Muscle," or "Nutra Sport.' Avoid GNC like the plague.

Most of your basic whey proteins contain about 23 grams of protein per scoop, so that could easily be doubled up to 46 grams. Add some fat free milk, and, if you're really wanting a lot, add some dehydrated powdered milk and you could easily get the serving up to about 55+. The normal formula is as follows: 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day from a combination of food and supplements. Someone like me is well past that, however...

Here's my pic, again. http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/eb9d2357 ... BBxXNmteLJ

That's an old pic but you can see I've been lifting. Just remember, the key to gaining mass is diet. I eat about six smaller meals per day. I also take creatine, glutamine, whey protein...

I don't want to confuse you. Just realize that whey protein is pretty basic stuff and it gives what it promises. Take it in conjunction with a good diet and your work out.

Atavarius wrote: but one thing I am having a great deal of trouble with is pushups. I can only do about 10 before muscle failure, and I really need help on what weight training I can do to improve it.

Any advice from you BTDT's or weight lifters out there?

Push-ups, or pulll-ups? Pull-ups is when you hang from a bar and lift your chest to the bar(chin-up is chin above the bar), and push-up is when you knock it down into pumping position.

If you can do one pull-up, concentrate on reps instead of strenght. use the assisted chin-up, put your own body weight as assist, then do 3 set of 20 reps.

Prior to this, warm up by doing your max unassisted on a chin-up bar.

Also, losing weight helps.

I've read that doing less than 8 reps and more than 12 won't make you much more stronger. After being able to do 12 no problem you should move up to heavier weights instead of increasing reps because increasing reps will just increase muscle endurance and not strength by very much. Also, situps are that good unless you know how to do them right which almost no one does. Instead, do crunches and leg raisers.

ArmorPierce wrote:I've read that doing less than 8 reps and more than 12 won't make you much more stronger.

You read wrongly. It's basically like this:

If your goal is to maximise muscle mass: lighter weights, more reps, less sets [e.g. 3 sets of 12 reps]
If your goal is to maximise strength: heavier weights, more sets, less reps [e.g. 5 sets of 5 reps]

ArmorPierce wrote:I've read that doing less than 8 reps and more than 12 won't make you much more stronger. After being able to do 12 no problem you should move up to heavier weights instead of increasing reps because increasing reps will just increase muscle endurance and not strength by very much. Also, situps are that good unless you know how to do them right which almost no one does. Instead, do crunches and leg raisers.

The goal isn't to make you stronger. The goal is to be able to do more reps with chin-ups.

Also, I'm talking about the assisted chin-up machine. Not every gym has them, but its quite common. What happens is that there's an overhead hand grip and you stand on an assisted bar. The more weights you put, the easier it is to do it. So, what I suggest is to actually "assist" you in doing it, by so much additional weights that there's virtually no effort, but doing multiple sets of 20.

It may not be as effective for atavarius, because he can do 10 already, in which case normal weightlifting is better, but if you're stuck below 5 chin up, trust me. This works.

BoredShirtless wrote:You read wrongly. It's basically like this:

If your goal is to maximise muscle mass: lighter weights, more reps, less sets [e.g. 3 sets of 12 reps]
If your goal is to maximise strength: heavier weights, more sets, less reps [e.g. 5 sets of 5 reps]

Well I didn't read wrong so the sources most be wrong http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_resul ... ickset.asp
http://www.teengrowth.com/index.cfm?act ... sc=Fitness
I couldn't find the source that I originally got my information from but now that I'm looking through I'm finding much conflicting information.
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/At ... build.html shows I was right about more than 12 improves muscle endurance but after that little research I did I agree that where I got my original information saying that less than 8 won't improve strength was wrong.

As for running, if you haven't done this already, going to a running shoe store to buy your trainer shoes would be the best bet. Make sure that you get a shoe that's meant for your foot shape (high arch, flat foot, regular arch). Furthermore, the trainer shoes, unlike racing shoes, should have a little space in front of your toes, but not to much, to allow a little movement. Otherwise you can get blisters or lose to nails, fun.

High reps with low weight will get you cut, but not really put on mass. Mass and strength go hand in hand.

StormTrooperTR889 wrote:High reps with low weight will get you cut, but not really put on mass. Mass and strength go hand in hand.

Wrong. "Hand in hand" implies the correlation is 1:1, which is wrong. Like I said before, if you want to maximise mass, do more reps with lesser weights. For strength, lesser reps, more sets, greater weights. This was the way the North Sydney Rugby League team trained; maximum strength [to tackle/run over people], minimum mass [more mass requires more oxygen; get tired quicker].

Shirtless is right, I am bulky as hell but I actually know leaner dudes who are stronger. They just don't eat like I do.

I use NFS whey, comes in 1.01 kg for about $55 nz. I have one scoop in the morning with muesli, and either another one after a workout or right before I go to bed.

I'm going to join a gym soon as I'm getting tired of bodyweight exercises. I can still get more out of chin ups and pullups, but pushups are increasing too slowly now (currently do about 30). I hate high rep exercises. In fact I've resorted to putting 20 kg in a backpack and wearing that during pushups which is better, but still no benchpress machine. And other than running, jogging, walking around the hill, I dont have any good way to hit legs. I've started doing towel chin ups, once I've gotten some decent reps with them I'll probably join the gym about 40 mins walk across the hill from my place - has a pool too, so should be nice.

Changes in my diet and the addition of exercise to my day though have seen me lose about 11 kg over the past year, and I'm currently at 18.6% body fat, about 83 KG (185 cm height). Main thing was smaller meals more often, and more protein (trying to get 30/40/30 protein carbs fat). I also found out about and addressed a b12 and folic acid deficiency with suplementation which has probably helped in some way.

Anyway, havnt taken it myself, but if you need to quickly improve you could probably try creatine.

Predator wrote:I can still get more out of chin ups and pullups, but pushups are increasing too slowly now (currently do about 30). I hate high rep exercises. In fact I've resorted to putting 20 kg in a backpack and wearing that during pushups which is better, but still no benchpress machine.

Try doing single arm pushups, the balance takes a bit of getting used to but it makes things seriously hard. Doubles the effective weight and makes pushups about 5-10 times harder. It also allows you to work your weak arm more to even out the strength imbalance.[/quote]

Like StormTrooperTR889 said - the best way to get good at pushups is to do lots of them. If you can do 10 now, I suggest you try to do 10 6 times a day, spread out. Then work up to 12, 15, ... It works, and you should gain quickly if you are consistent - when I finished basic training, I could do 50 pushups with no problems (now, well ... )

I don't know where you are, but I suspect you will be required to do around 30. While you're at it, start doing chin-ups as well. Find a playground with monkey bars or something near your house and apply the same rules. If you can't do a chinup yet, start with slow negative reps (start at the top and take about 30 seconds to very slowly lower yourself).

The way to get good at pushups is to do a lot of them, practice really does make perfect. Whenever you have some spare time, drop and do 20, by the end of the day you'll have done a ton of them. Also, you can sort of do the back half of a pyramid set in reverse, that is you do as many pushups as you can, take a short break then do that number minus a couple until you get to zero. This gets you used to the pain & burn as your muscles give out.

Errrr. I really like to ask. Do you mean push-ups or chin-ups? Because unless you're obese, there's no way in god you can only do 10 push-ups, especially since if you're fit enough to consider joining the army.

If it was 10 pull ups, I doubt that he would be here asking how to increase his pull ups considering that being able to do 10 isn't bad.

PainRack wrote:Errrr. I really like to ask. Do you mean push-ups or chin-ups? Because unless you're obese, there's no way in god you can only do 10 push-ups, especially since if you're fit enough to consider joining the army.

Gotta disagree on that one. I know enough people who can't do 10 pushups and they are far from being fatasses, they just have no upper body strength. One of my friends for example is starting to get a beer-gut so he does a bunch of situps every day to the exclusion of everything else. He's about 5'8" 130-135 pounds and he can't do 10 pushups, nor can he do dips or chinups. You can run a roll of masking tape all the up his arm to his shoulder, his arms are that small!

aerius wrote:

PainRack wrote:Errrr. I really like to ask. Do you mean push-ups or chin-ups? Because unless you're obese, there's no way in god you can only do 10 push-ups, especially since if you're fit enough to consider joining the army.

Gotta disagree on that one. I know enough people who can't do 10 pushups and they are far from being fatasses, they just have no upper body strength. One of my friends for example is starting to get a beer-gut so he does a bunch of situps every day to the exclusion of everything else. He's about 5'8" 130-135 pounds and he can't do 10 pushups, nor can he do dips or chinups. You can run a roll of masking tape all the up his arm to his shoulder, his arms are that small!

You can tell your friend to stop wasting his time with the sit-ups, they won't help his beer gut very much at all. He might have hugely strong abs, but the fat on top of the abs won't go away by doing sit-ups.

Anyways, yes, 10 push-ups is not very much at all, and it will definitely require effort to increase this total. From my own experience, repetition will get you there. During my (extremely brief) stint in the CF lo these many years ago, the number of push-ups required to pass the test was 30. It doesn't take an incredibly fit person to accomplish this.

ArmorPierce wrote:If it was 10 pull ups, I doubt that he would be here asking how to increase his pull ups considering that being able to do 10 isn't bad.

Well, he does say army instead of Marines.

Atavarius wrote:Hey guys,

I decided to join the Army, but before that I have to get in shape a bit. Now, I had been running, and improving my time quite a bit (until I sprained my #$@$*&@ ankle.) I also am good on situps, but one thing I am having a great deal of trouble with is pushups. I can only do about 10 before muscle failure, and I really need help on what weight training I can do to improve it.

Any advice from you BTDT's or weight lifters out there?

As others have said, this comes down to the SAID principle: Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands. If you want to get good at push-ups, you have to practice push-ups.

I suggest the following.

Do a set of push-ups to failure today. Repeat the process tomorrow. If at that time you:

--can get another repetition or more, continue to do single sets of push-ups to failure daily for as long as you register strength increases;
--cannot get another rep, do a failure set of push-ups only every 48 hours.

Once you're knocking out upwards of 20-30 repetitions, which I've no doubt you will after 2-4 weeks of doing the above, we'll shift the focus a bit more toward something endurance-oriented (probably what are often called "ladders").

You need to establish a good strength base first, though, so we'll deal with that when the time comes. Keep things simple, get to 20+ reps, and then we'll talk about methods to get you into the 40-60 range.