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IMO, it is necessary to have irrationality SOMEWHERE for us to exist. Discuss. (Should this be in SLAM?)

verilon wrote:IMO, it is necessary to have irrationality SOMEWHERE for us to exist. Discuss. (Should this be in SLAM?)

We wouldn't be human as we know it if we weren't somewhat irrational. Sure we could be perfectlly logical but we wouldn't be the same.

If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead. - Angel Passion, BtVS

Us as human beings, yes it is necessary. Us as sentient beings, no it is not necessary if species survival is the ultimate logical and rational goal. Us as animals, no see above.

Logic is only a method for determining what follows from a repmise - it does not show what that premise should be. One cannot say that survival is the ultimate logical goal, because it is no more logical than the goal of spinning around in circles. Therefore, one will always need illogic to define the premises of the system to begin with.

"Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of knowledge, not the end." -Spock

IG-88E wrote:"Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of knowledge, not the end." -Spock

That's a cool quote, but I'm not sure I agree with it. . .

*ponders*
Logic allows you to manufacture more knowledge from existing knowledge - but it does not allow you to create the initial knowledge you are reasoning from. . .

Recognising that limitation is, itself, logical.

Hence logic itself shows that the original premise must come from something external, such as observation and experience. . .

Hence logic is the beginning of knowledge. . .

Yay Spock!

(Yes, I could have just said 'cool quote' - but this was more interesting)

data_link wrote:Logic is only a method for determining what follows from a repmise - it does not show what that premise should be. One cannot say that survival is the ultimate logical goal, because it is no more logical than the goal of spinning around in circles. Therefore, one will always need illogic to define the premises of the system to begin with.

It is logical based on observations. If you see that pain and death are bad based on the suffering it causes you see that survival is a good thing. As such, mass suffering is bad so mass survival, and thereby of your species, is a logical goal. If you use logic based on your initial observations.

Without irrationality the world would be a very different place without civilization as we know it.