StarDestroyer.Net BBS

If conventional conflict broke out between NATO and the Warsaw pact circa 1980, who would win?

NATO. Easy.

Setzer wrote:If conventional conflict broke out between NATO and the Warsaw pact circa 1980, who would win?

NATO. However it would have been very bloody and likely have gone nuclear.

NATO the Soviets had the numbers but NATO had been training for that kind of fight also the US could directly attack Russian Territory with our Navy

Us better Tech, fleet, maybe better troops overall, i don't know. But both would destroy each other very much.

Like Einstien said the one would've been fought with sticks.

It becomes more and more a Pyrric victory as time passes on...but yes Nato would claimed 'victory' for whatever it would've been worth.

slight edit...next one...gah.

The Next world war would have been China/Japan/ Austrialia fighting African and South America prehaps

Nato would have won the Navel War and the Air War while the Soviets tie us for the Ground War unless they do what Soviet tatical doctrine calls for an tatcial strikes the Nato-Prepostions and strolled through Germany

Depends. If the Sovvies struck first, possible NATO victory, but a very pyrrhic one; tens of millions dead.


If we struck first, we could maybe nail all the massive Sovvie shock-armies with our nukes, but they'd still have the option of nuclear retaliation.

Next war will be against china- I'm scared- that authoritarian government is becoming too strong......

A war in 1980 would have been nuclear within 24 hours. If it remained conventional, which is utterly impossible, the Soviets might pull it off, reach the Rhine and force NATO to disband. However NATO would stand a good chance. After 1983 a Soviet conventional victory is totally impossible, with or without nuclear weaponry.

Mr Bean wrote:The Next world war would have been China/Japan/ Austrialia fighting African and South America prehaps

Nato would have won the Navel War and the Air War while the Soviets tie us for the Ground War unless they do what Soviet tatical doctrine calls for an tatcial strikes the Nato-Prepostions and strolled through Germany

Soviet nuclear planning called for strikes on every industrialized nation including their own Warsaw Pact allies. The next war would be between remote areas of the Congo and southern Sudan.

If the Soviets use tactical nukes from the start, the ground war no longer matters as it will go stratgic nuclear within hours. Once that happens the eleimation of much of NATO's tactical nuclear ability wont matter.

If it didn't go nuclear, it'd be rough but NATO would win. If you count tac nukes, we still win, but Germany no longer exists and most of France and Poland are gone, as is London.

The Chinese are pathetic. Their training is crap, only their numbers are worth a thing. Their ships are tin cans built by the Russians over a decade ago. I believe by last estimates the Chinese have fewer then ten warheads that could get to the U.S., and that's if it went nuclear and if Geroge's little pet project NMD hasn't gone operational and actually half works. But shit, if we thought they'd nuke us we'd mobilize the B2 force and try and knock out most of the sites from nearby bases with B61-11 surface-piercing tactical nuclear bombs.

An America fully mobilized for total war would fuck China up and make her like it.

The Soviets planned to nuke every single industrialized nation, even their satellites?

If the Soviets use tactical nukes from the start, the ground war no longer matters as it will go stratgic nuclear within hours. Once that happens the eleimation of much of NATO's tactical nuclear ability wont matter.

Depending on the President on the Spot, While France and the UK might have launched until America was directly attacked or prehaps a political trick such as "Run-away Bomber" "Stolen Nuke" "Mad Sub Captian"

How hard would it be to promte a captian or make up one, say half Jewish who "steals" a ship, launches his ten or so Missles, 40-200 Megatons total depending on the sub and Wipe out Germany(Revenge for the Holocasut angle) you stand down your Forces, you make apolgetic nosies you all the sub forces back Home then six months later you invade on April 1st(Who would buy the News that WWIII happend on April 1st?)

Mr Bean wrote:

If the Soviets use tactical nukes from the start, the ground war no longer matters as it will go stratgic nuclear within hours. Once that happens the eleimation of much of NATO's tactical nuclear ability wont matter.

Depending on the President on the Spot, While France and the UK might have launched until America was directly attacked or prehaps a political trick such as "Run-away Bomber" "Stolen Nuke" "Mad Sub Captian"

How hard would it be to promte a captian or make up one, say half Jewish who "steals" a ship, launches his ten or so Missles, 40-200 Megatons total depending on the sub and Wipe out Germany(Revenge for the Holocasut angle) you stand down your Forces, you make apolgetic nosies you all the sub forces back Home then six months later you invade on April 1st(Who would buy the News that WWIII happend on April 1st?)

No ones going to buy that, and thousands of Americans would be killed in such an attack. After taking several hundred nuclear warheads, Russia wont be invading. The French are going to loft quite a few weapons at the Soviet group of forces in Germany, easily wiping half of them with a few dozen warheads, and both the UK and France would target the rail yards that Russia needs to move new troops into Europe.

However its far more likely that it would be an all out attack with everything in everyone aresnal. The Russians won't risk that, they'd suffer to much.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:If it didn't go nuclear, it'd be rough but NATO would win. If you count tac nukes, we still win, but Germany no longer exists and most of France and Poland are gone, as is London.

The Chinese are pathetic. Their training is crap, only their numbers are worth a thing. Their ships are tin cans built by the Russians over a decade ago. I believe by last estimates the Chinese have fewer then ten warheads that could get to the U.S., and that's if it went nuclear and if Geroge's little pet project NMD hasn't gone operational and actually half works. But shit, if we thought they'd nuke us we'd mobilize the B2 force and try and knock out most of the sites from nearby bases with B61-11 surface-piercing tactical nuclear bombs.

An America fully mobilized for total war would fuck China up and make her like it.

Yeah, but that is now. They will get better, unless we attack them first, which won't happen.

Please. The U.S. spends more then the next top 5 military spenders in the world combined by an order of magnitude, if I remember correctly. China is still poorer then Russia is.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Please. The U.S. spends more then the next top 5 military spenders in the world combined by an order of magnitude, if I remember correctly. China is still poorer then Russia is.

Since when is the differance between 220 or so billion and 380 billion and order of magnitude?

No one wins. The Soviets have nukes too.

Vympel wrote:No one wins. The Soviets have nukes too.

If NATO launches an all out nuclear attack first while at least a squadron of Pershing's II's are left in Germany, it would become possible to cut off Russian leader ship for long enough to destroy a very large chunk of there nuclear forces.

America and the west would be savaged, however damage to them would be less then that suffered by the Soviet Union. In the race to rebuild the West or at least America would win fifty years ahead of the Russians.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Vympel wrote:No one wins. The Soviets have nukes too.

If NATO launches an all out nuclear attack first while at least a squadron of Pershing's II's are left in Germany, it would become possible to cut off Russian leader ship for long enough to destroy a very large chunk of there nuclear forces.

America and the west would be savaged, however damage to them would be less then that suffered by the Soviet Union. In the race to rebuild the West or at least America would win fifty years ahead of the Russians.

That is what the West thought after WWII, as well. They thought it would take the USSR as much as 20 years to obtain nukes. They got them in 1949. What's my point? Russia has much more territory and resources than the West. It is possible to rebuild it much faster than the US.

fgalkin wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Vympel wrote:No one wins. The Soviets have nukes too.

If NATO launches an all out nuclear attack first while at least a squadron of Pershing's II's are left in Germany, it would become possible to cut off Russian leader ship for long enough to destroy a very large chunk of there nuclear forces.

America and the west would be savaged, however damage to them would be less then that suffered by the Soviet Union. In the race to rebuild the West or at least America would win fifty years ahead of the Russians.

That is what the West thought after WWII, as well. They thought it would take the USSR as much as 20 years to obtain nukes. They got them in 1949. What's my point? Russia has much more territory and resources than the West. It is possible to rebuild it much faster than the US.

Actually, distance works against them. They have the resources but there dispersed over thousands of miles. However they lack anything like a road system, rail has the haul everything. However all the rail hubs are going to be smoking glass, as is the support infrastructure.

The West on the other hand has excellent road networks. Its much easier to get trucks going and move them over the road network, which would still be useable for decades then it is to rebuild rail lines and keep rolling stock moving. The west also has far less severs winters; the population is in a better position to support its self and thus devote surplus resources too more significant rebuilding tasks.

Well... The Soviets have less sea-based nuclear assets, so if we did a first strike, it might be possible to take out much of it's nuclear force... However, if it came to nuclear war, I'd say that the whole world would be devastated, leaving no clear winner. Leaving nukes out of the equation, I think that NATO would win. The Soviets have to worry about the West, East, and South front (I figured China would probably try to grab some land), while the Europeans and Americans can concentrate on a smaller area. At that time, the US's subs are still superior the the Soviet ones, and could probably take out a large portion of their Navy. Soviets would have to move their troops and armor to the West front to halt the European invasion, weakening the defenses in the other areas. I figure the Soviets would probably lose this one, and NATO would probably take over at least half of the Soviet Union.

Exonerate wrote:Well... The Soviets have less sea-based nuclear assets, so if we did a first strike, it might be possible to take out much of it's nuclear force... However, if it came to nuclear war, I'd say that the whole world would be devastated, leaving no clear winner. Leaving nukes out of the equation, I think that NATO would win. The Soviets have to worry about the West, East, and South front (I figured China would probably try to grab some land), while the Europeans and Americans can concentrate on a smaller area. At that time, the US's subs are still superior the the Soviet ones, and could probably take out a large portion of their Navy. Soviets would have to move their troops and armor to the West front to halt the European invasion, weakening the defenses in the other areas. I figure the Soviets would probably lose this one, and NATO would probably take over at least half of the Soviet Union.

Not only do they rely heavily on land based ICBM's, but they also keep a much smaller proportion of there SSBN's at sea, many while able to fire from there pier side berths could also be easily destroyed by nuclear strikes on there bases. Some of those at sea would also be nailed by SSN's. The trick is using the Perishing with there 7 or so minute flight times to Moscow to disrupt though likely not destroy the Soviet' highly centralized C4 system and prevent a immediate launch.


In a conventional war NATO would not cross the Oder river. To get that far they must fight there way through ten Soviet category A Tank divisions and 10 category A motor rifle divisions, along with two East German tank and three motor rifle divisions along with a Soviet Artillery division. The Soviet forces along have some 400,000 men, 5800 tanks, all T-64's and T-80's along with several thousand more APC's and IFV's. In support are 625 combat helicopters and a similar number of transport birds and nearly a thousand tactical aircraft.

Poland has another two Soviet tank divisions and fourteen Polish divisions. The Czech Republic and Hungary hold another nine Soviet divisions, which would be a factor. Unless an invasion was directly against them Czech and Hungarian forces might not be a factor, though they likely would. European Russia has another 59 divisions and four air armies with several thousand more aircraft.

Attrition, even from the obsolete force that would mostly be faced after fighting though the Soviet forces in the western Warsaw pact would make a attack beyond the excellent natural defense of the Oder a poor idea and an attack past Warsaw totally impossible. Ammunition also would not hold out, even if the Western governments and military commands would accept the losses. However the conquest of East Germany would crush Soviet chances for victory and collapse the Warsaw pact. That's all that’s needed.

A war which sees combat in the Belorussia military district would be of a truly massive scale, where talking total mobilization of the NATO economies, all out attacks on the Unions from the naval base of Petropavlovsk to railways in Turkmen to coal mines in above the artic circle.

Air battles over Iran as the Soviets seek to bomb the oil fields of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, Soviet subs in the South Atlantic seeking out ore transports from South Africa, all out combat in countless hot spots.

In others words, a REALLY FUCKING BIG WAR. But also one that never happens, because the nuclear genie comes out of the lamp before it ever gets that far.