1984

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 12:22am

Since Lennox and I went of track in the other thread....

So, what do you think happened as far as the countriesd going ot war out in the Middle East bloc?

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 12:29am

From what I gather, maybe Iran goes with Eastasia. Turkey with Eurasia, Libya with Ocenia, and everything inbetween is one massive free for all, though an Eurasia Army, has been slowly push Oceania, out of Africa, until the Eurasian Army it was destroyed. So basically Eurasia is slowly winning or have won the Middle East.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 12:32am

So Eurasia wins the Middle East.....but what happens when Eurasia begins to attack Oceania (Airstrip One)? Or when Oceania begins to attack Eastasia (Australia - China)? Or Eastasia attacks Eurasia? Could prove very interesting, if it were to play out.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 12:40am

If they were all at War with each at the exact same time, Eurasia, could probably hold off the longest of all, while Eastasia would crumble under pressure because it can only ithstand one forc not both. and my thoughts on Austrailia are skecthy, but I know Ocenia, has India because they probably seizied Airstrip One's Colonial assests immeadietly. Anyways, Oceania woul probably taken in SE Asia, and maybe Japan. whike Eurasia gets China, after hat don't know. If oil comes into play it's mostly Eurasia all the way unless they hold he North Sea, and Africa's waters, and South America. But if Eurasia, were too finally hit South airstrip One it wuld probably fall without Floating Fortesses in the Channel which would get blown too pieces anyway.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 12:43am

South America is part of Oceania, yes? Hmmm......so either way, it seems that Eurasia wins, but what if the technological advances had been implemented? At the time of this being written, it was juist after WWII, so Oceania (including NAmerica) would have nuclear capabilities.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 12:50am

Yeah, no advantage, though in the '60s Eurasia nukes Colchester.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 12:51am

Captain Lennox wrote:Yeah, no advantage, though in the '60s Eurasia nukes Colchester.

Hmm....

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-11-17 12:55am

There never was any war.

The entire world was under a single state.

The war was fabricated in order to keep the masses under control. Aside from random explosions in the city, what effect does the war really have? We never see people grieving war dead, or hear of those who build war machines besides on authorised propaganda.

Its like the lottery in 1984. The world is so massive and the state makes each persons sphere of knowledge so small that its impossible to prove or disprove it.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 12:57am

weemadando wrote:There never was any war.

The entire world was under a single state.

The war was fabricated in order to keep the masses under control. Aside from random explosions in the city, what effect does the war really have? We never see people grieving war dead, or hear of those who build war machines besides on authorised propaganda.

Its like the lottery in 1984. The world is so massive and the state makes each persons sphere of knowledge so small that its impossible to prove or disprove it.

The world was under three states. Eurasia, Eastasia, and Ocenaia. They were all vying for control. IRRC, at the end of the book, everything was starting to go down the hole with Eurasia and Oceania.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 01:03am

verilon wrote:
weemadando wrote:There never was any war.

The entire world was under a single state.

The war was fabricated in order to keep the masses under control. Aside from random explosions in the city, what effect does the war really have? We never see people grieving war dead, or hear of those who build war machines besides on authorised propaganda.

Its like the lottery in 1984. The world is so massive and the state makes each persons sphere of knowledge so small that its impossible to prove or disprove it.
The world was under three states. Eurasia, Eastasia, and Ocenaia. They were all vying for control. IRRC, at the end of the book, everything was starting to go down the hole with Eurasia and Oceania.

What he is trying too say Big Brother controls everything. There is is no proof, or nothing too disprove. Ah, so many unanswered questions.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 01:07am

Captain Lennox wrote:What he is trying too say Big Brother controls everything. There is is no proof, or nothing too disprove. Ah, so many unanswered questions.

Both an upside and a downside to the book.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 01:09am

verilon wrote:
Captain Lennox wrote:What he is trying too say Big Brother controls everything. There is is no proof, or nothing too disprove. Ah, so many unanswered questions.
Both an upside and a downside to the book.

Yeah, sometimes you get more questions then answers.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 01:09am

Captain Lennox wrote:
verilon wrote:
Captain Lennox wrote:What he is trying too say Big Brother controls everything. There is is no proof, or nothing too disprove. Ah, so many unanswered questions.
Both an upside and a downside to the book.
Yeah, sometimes you get more questions then answers.

That is a better characterisitc of people than of books, I must say.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 01:13am

verilon wrote:
Captain Lennox wrote:
verilon wrote: Both an upside and a downside to the book.
Yeah, sometimes you get more questions then answers.
That is a better characterisitc of people than of books, I must say.

Trying too impy something?

*looks around*

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 01:14am

Captain Lennox wrote:Trying too impy something? *looks around*

No, no, nothing at all. But mystery as far as questions vs answers is a good human characteristic, not one for a novel.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2002-11-17 01:17am

At the end of the book, a major Eurasian advance was coming down through central Africa and threatening Leopoldville (Kinshasa). However, IIRC, the Oceanian army caught the Eurasians in a pincer movement and destroyed it.

Goldstein's writings explicitly state that the superstates are too big and powerful to be destroyed, even by the other two states allied against it. The point is moot, however, because no superstate will directly attack the territory of another. Eurasia could easily invade and conquer England, and Oceania could likewise easily invade and conquer Western Europe. But they never do because then the citzens of one superstate would be able to interact with the citizens of another, this exposing the fact that the "enemy" people are exactly like your own and the government lied when they said they were monsters. The entire war is fought over a swath of territory stretching from the west African Coast to the Indian subcontinent. The purpose of the war is to waste resources and maintain a permanant state of emergency and sustenence-level living for the population, to keep them indebted to the state for survival. Even if it were possible for any state to win the war, they wouldn't try.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-11-17 01:41am

Goldstein didn't exist. He was a creation of the state. Just like the war and the lottery.

Well, I concede that the war may exist, along with the other states, but I have successfully argued the point that it possibly didn't in an academic setting (Politics in Literature and Film class), so I feel justified in stating it.