StarDestroyer.Net BBS

News Alert: CNN reports seven dead, including two Israeli children, in hotel explosion.

JERUSALEM (Nov. 28) - An explosion went off Thursday in a hotel filled with Israeli guests in Mombasa, Kenya, and at about the same time a missile was fired toward an Israeli aircraft taking off from Mombasa, Israel's Foreign Ministry and media reports said.

The aircraft belonging to the Arkia charter company was lightly damaged, but no one aboard was hurt, Israel TV's Channel Two said. The aircraft, with 260 passengers and 10 crew members aboard, had initially prepared for an emergency landing in Nairobi, but then decided to continue to Israel.

Both the missile attack and the explosion came at about 7 a.m.

The blast went off in the Paradise Hotel, which is owned by Israelis. Hotel guests said there were casualties, including several injured children.

Israel TV said a car crashed through a barrier outside the hotel, and that explosives were apparently thrown from the vehicle at the hotel. The blast did not cause major damage, the report said.

''I heard a loud explosion,'' an Israeli hotel guest, identified only as Rami, told Israel TV's Channel Two. Another guest, Osnat, said there were wounded, including a number of children. Some of the wounded were taken to a nearby small hospital.

At about the same time, two missiles were fired toward an Israeli aircraft that had just taken off from Mombasa airport, said Ron Prosor, an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman. The pilot saw a flash of light on the left side of the plane, said a company official, Shlomo Hanael.

AP-NY-11-28-02 0240EST

- From AOL's news service.

Comments: Israel has built up many ties with the African countries of the Sub-Saharan, or tried to, anyway. Many, likewise, have become frayed in recent times; but it will be interesting to see if they can compel the Kenyan government to respond to this, and what they'll do if they can't... The US reaction will also be interesting.

Additional thoughts: There was a recent threat by a Palestinian Authority Legislator that the Palestinian Authority's militant wing would begin suicide attacks inside the USA. If this was done by the Al-Aqsa martyr brigades, could it be a demonstration of their power projection capabilities to show us that they have the capability to back up that threat without actually following through on it yet?

It seems the Muslims world's primary goal is to get the Palestinians removed from the west bank and Gaza, by force.

I'm betting Israel is going to be adding infrared jammers to its civilian's planes now. SA-7's,14's and 18 are all are easy enough to fool and jammers don’t cost much. SA-16's less so, but those aren’t that common. I doubt anyone needs to fear the crappy stinger clones China's spreading around that where rejected by everyone from Iran to Thailand as worthless shit.

New reports are the missiles were improved versions of the SA-7. I think they called em Strela-3 ?

I believe that is correct, if they are improved SA-7's. However many nations, including several in Africa produce there own improved SA-7's. However the fact that both missed suggest either the range was too short, which is possibul, or more likely they where indeed made by the Union decades ago and the electronics where dead from lack of maintenance.

Did the report specifically Strela-3, or Improved SA-7 and your wondering if that means Strela-3?

What was shown on the BBC where I am was without a doubt a SA-7 launch tube, painted light blue of all things! But there was no mention of the missile type.

Jews were under attack before they made their own nation, they were under attack when they made their own nation, and they'll be under attack until the end of time. Oh, and there will never be peace in the Middle East -- mark my words...

The report said the Strela was an improved version of the SA-7. I did not know if that was true or not. Im ignorant of such missiles. I cant find the link anymore, it was in the news section of Google.

Another article is saying they are German made Stingers which makes no sense, only we manufacture them correct?

jegs2 wrote:Jews were under attack before they made their own nation, they were under attack when they made their own nation, and they'll be under attack until the end of time.

Doesn't help that they chose to make their home in the midst of people who hate them (through forcible eviction, no less). And they've given more than they've gotten since about 1947.

Mind you, the unfortunate truth about Israel in 1947 was that anti-Semitism was still very strong so nobody wanted to take the Jews, and everybody agreed that it would be best to dump them somewhere. Palestine, of course, had no recognized voice of its own to protest its selection for this purpose.

Oh, and there will never be peace in the Middle East -- mark my words...

Can't argue with that.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:The report said the Strela was an improved version of the SA-7. I did not know if that was true or not. Im ignorant of such missiles. I cant find the link anymore, it was in the news section of Google.

Another article is saying they are German made Stingers which makes no sense, only we manufacture them correct?

Yes, and the launch tubes where clearly that of an SA-7. That Article is full of shit and the author a moron. Strela is the basic missile, which NATO called SA-7. Saying the Strela is an improved SA-7 is both backwords and incorrect.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:The report said the Strela was an improved version of the SA-7. I did not know if that was true or not. Im ignorant of such missiles. I cant find the link anymore, it was in the news section of Google.

Another article is saying they are German made Stingers which makes no sense, only we manufacture them correct?

SA-7:
Guidance: IR
Min Alt: 0.01 km
Max Alt: 4.5 km
Radar: None
Range: 5.5 km

Wide export, naval adaptation, 2-man team; helicopter and landmine versions; Chinese version is HN-5

Yes, and the launch tubes where clearly that of an SA-7. That Article is full of shit and the author a moron. Strela is the basic missile, which NATO called SA-7. Saying the Strela is an improved SA-7 is both backwords and incorrect

Well, since most reporters dont know there is a difference between a tank and an APC Im not surprised that they screw up.

They missed a very easy target so I would have to think the missiles were really poorly maintained or of low quality or both. Course mabye the users were morons.

jegs2 wrote:Jews were under attack before they made their own nation, they were under attack when they made their own nation, and they'll be under attack until the end of time. Oh, and there will never be peace in the Middle East -- mark my words...

They'll be peace in the Middle East if one of two events take place:

1.) Muslims start attacking Jews in the US and Europe. Then they'll be massive attacks against 'Terrorist nations' (read: pratically every Muslim nation.) and they'll only be one side left.

2.) Atheism continues to grow and overtake Muslim and the most common religious affiliation.

C.S.Strowbridge wrote: 2.) Atheism continues to grow and overtake Muslim and the most common religious affiliation.

Actually, Atheism in the West will be outnumbered by FUNDIE CHRISTANITY
in the rest of the world:

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/979

A Christian Boom
by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
November 26, 2002

Which of the world's largest faiths, Christianity or Islam, is experiencing the greater ideological reassertion and demographic surge?

"Islam" is surely nearly everyone's answer. As American Christians experiment with ever- milder versions of their faith, Muslims display a fervor for extreme interpretations of Islam. As Europe suffers the lowest population growth rates ever recorded, Muslim countries have some of the highest.

But, argues Philip Jenkins recently in the Atlantic Monthly, Islam is the wrong answer. He shows how Christianity is the religion currently undergoing the most basic rethinking and the largest increase in adherents. He makes a good case for its militancy most affecting the next century.

"For obvious reasons," notes this professor of history and religious studies at Pennsylvania State University, "news reports today are filled with material about the influence of a resurgent and sometimes angry Islam. But in its variety and vitality, in its global reach, in its association with the world's fastest-growing societies, in its shifting centers of gravity, in the way its values and practices vary from place to place . . . it is Christianity that will leave the deepest mark on the 21st century."

What Jenkins dubs the "Christian revolution" is so little noted because Christians divide into two very different regions North (Europe, North America, Australia) and South (South America, Africa, Asia) and we who live in the North only dimly perceive the momentous developments under way in the South. Fortunately, Jenkins is there to guide us.

Faith: The changes in the South "run utterly contrary" to those in the liberalizing North, where religious beliefs and practices are ever more removed from traditional Christianity. In the South, Protestant movements are mainly Evangelical or Pentecostal, while Roman Catholicism takes an orthodox cast.

By Northern lights, the South's theology and moral teaching are "stalwartly traditional or even reactionary," what with their respect for the power of priests, their notions of spiritual charisma, their aspiration to direct spiritual revelation, their efforts to exorcise demonic forces and their goal of re-creating a version of early Christianity. As "Southern Christians are reading the New Testament and taking it very seriously," increasing tensions develop with the liberal Northerners.

Demographics: "Christians are facing a shrinking population in the liberal West and a growing majority of the traditional Rest. During the past half century the critical centers of the Christian world have moved decisively to Africa, to Latin America, and to Asia. The balance will never shift back."

The numbers are jaw-dropping: Nigeria already has more practicing Anglicans than any other country, with Uganda not far behind. The Philippines has more baptisms per year than France, Spain, Italy and Poland together. By 2025, two-thirds of all Christians (and three-quarters of all Catholics) are expected to live in the South. (This actually understates the contrast in growth rates: Many Southern Christians are relocating to the North. In London today, half of all churchgoers are blacks.) Under present trends, by 2050 non-Latino whites will make up just one in five of the world's Christians.

Of course, the chasm between North and South is not complete (a fact that Jenkins hardly touches on); the United States, for example, contains substantial numbers of Christians with a "Southern" outlook. That said, the trends are clear:

* Although Islam may appear to be the faith of choice for the world's poor, Christianity is faring at least as well among them.

* Christianity is no longer predominantly a European and North American faith.

* The experimentation and decline that pervades Northern Christianity is less important than it appears.

* The concept of Christendom may re-emerge in the South, where political, social and personal identities are being primarily defined by religious loyalties.

* "An enormous rift seems inevitable" between North and South, possibly leading to a split in the Christian church, similar to what happened centuries ago between the Catholic Church and the Protestant movements.

* Christianity and Islam are on a collision course, competing for converts and influence. Some countries "might be brought to ruin by the clash of jihad and crusade."

To understand the future of Christianity, then, keep your eye on those Southern believers who reject the North's liberal outlook and who increasingly dominate the faith.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:

Yes, and the launch tubes where clearly that of an SA-7. That Article is full of shit and the author a moron. Strela is the basic missile, which NATO called SA-7. Saying the Strela is an improved SA-7 is both backwords and incorrect

Well, since most reporters dont know there is a difference between a tank and an APC Im not surprised that they screw up.

They missed a very easy target so I would have to think the missiles were really poorly maintained or of low quality or both. Course mabye the users were morons.

If only the rocket motors had been badly cracked... Then we'd just have the problem of identifying several pieces of charcoal.

MKSheppard wrote: Actually, Atheism in the West will be outnumbered by FUNDIE CHRISTANITY
in the rest of the world: *snip*

When reading that article, the words "we'll see" came to mind....

IG-88E wrote: When reading that article, the words "we'll see" came to mind....

Already happening in Nigeria.....

Anyone care to bet that El Al aircraft will start sporting flare & chaff dispensers in the near future?

Al Qaida has tried the SAM-at-the-runway stunt at least twice now. It's just a matter of time until they get lucky.

They might also try relasing huge amounts of chaff at airports and fucking up the radar system.

Anyone care to bet that El Al aircraft will start sporting flare & chaff dispensers in the near future?

Ive heard they already have such items on some of their aircraft.

If not, im sure it will happen soon enough.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:

Anyone care to bet that El Al aircraft will start sporting flare & chaff dispensers in the near future?

Ive heard they already have such items on some of their aircraft.

If not, im sure it will happen soon enough.

At the very least they would have jammers or other ECM, as much as can be mounted without interfering with avionics.

Enlightenment wrote:Anyone care to bet that El Al aircraft will start sporting flare & chaff dispensers in the near future?

Al Qaida has tried the SAM-at-the-runway stunt at least twice now. It's just a matter of time until they get lucky.

Me, as I noted in my first reply. Infrared Jammer's are most likely. They work all the time without the crew needing to spot the missiles, though they did in this case. Flares might also be added. Chaff and ECM is less likely both because of cost and the odds of the Terrorist parking an SA-6 at the end of the runway and getting a shot off are rather low.

In addition to what Islamic Terrorists have tried, a number of years ago something like this happened at Heathrow. After a anonymous tip the British found a MANPADS rigged up on an automated mount at the end of one runway. When the timer finished counting down it would have gone to active searching. Next plane to fly over would have been locked up and the missile fired.

At such low altitude and speed and with the runways requiring a big turn, even one missile likely would have been fatal to a twin-engine plane and even a four-engined one would have problems. The IRA is suspected but I dont know if they ever claimed responcability.

I don't know that they'll go that far. Perhaps on planes flying certain routes they consider high risk, but hardly as standard. They already have systems that spot when they're being painted by whatever, be it radar or laser rangefinder or something else, and those are standard. They also take them damn seriously.

A friend of mine who's an officer in the army said that once when they'd been practicing near the major airport here, some of his conscripts used a laser range finder to spot a plane that turned out to be an El Al one. They took immediate evasive action because they didn't know what was painting them, despite the fact that there was no conceivable risk, not in this country. My friend got a rather curt order to put the men on a leash. His superior wasn't very amused when he got a call from the airport authorities.

Edi