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http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20021130-89118382.htm

District to void speeding tickets
By Brian DeBose and Matthew Cella
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The Metropolitan Police Department has asked the city's Bureau of Traffic Adjudication to dismiss tickets or reimburse drivers for more than 2,000 erroneous photo-radar citations amounting to at least $72,000 in fines.

D.C. police and Affiliated Computer Services Inc. — the Dallas-based company contracted to run the speed cameras for the city — issued 2,438 erroneous tickets to motorists in October, Chief Charles H. Ramsey said.
Three days of enforcement — Oct. 15, 17 and 19 — in the 2500 block of Porter Street NW and several weeks of enforcement in the 3300 block of East Capitol Street NE were based on inaccurate speed limits, he said.

"In order to rectify this situation and ensure that these motorists are treated fairly, I am requesting that the Bureau of Traffic Adjudication dismiss the aforementioned violations and facilitate the reimbursement of the tickets which have already been paid," Chief Ramsey said in a letter to Bureau of Traffic Adjudication Director Joanne Bailey.

He said the mistakes on Porter Street were the result of updated speed limits and the mistakes on East Capitol Street were the result of a processing problem.

The letter says the D.C. Department of Transportation changed the speed limit from 25 mph to 30 mph on Porter Street after the location was scouted for photo-radar cameras and before D.C. police began using the cameras to issue speeding tickets.

How convient. Fuck them all]

Chief Ramsey said officers discovered the error and "immediately" notified ACS "on or about" Oct. 19.

"Mr. Maurice Nelson of ACS assured them that the violations would not be sent out to the violators, but that was not the case," Chief Ramsey said.

Police officials said 438 faulty citations were a result of the error. Porter Street was added to the city's 74 camera- enforcement zones in October, according to the D.C. police Web site.

Transportation officials contacted by The Washington Times said the 25 mph limit was posted in error.

"There was a [speed-limit] change in that section of Porter Street. And we assume the 25 mph sign was erroneously posted by a contractor," said Bill Rice, spokesman for the D.C. Department of Transportation.

Calls and e-mails to Mr. Nelson, program manager for state and local solutions, by The Times were not returned yesterday.

The camera enforcement on East Capitol Street, which began Oct. 15, yielded 2,000 bad tickets.

In a second letter to Miss Bailey regarding those violations, Chief Ramsey said D.C. police were notified by ACS on Wednesday that a group of violations had been processed in error.

"The error was a result of an ACS computer that was programmed to process violations at 35 mph when in reality the posted speed limit at the site was 40 mph," Chief Ramsey said.

The chief asked the bureau to dismiss the violations and facilitate the reimbursement of 38 motorists who had paid fines for tickets issued at the East Capitol Street location and roughly 35 at the Porter Street location.
Officials of the Department of Motor Vehicles — the parent agency of traffic adjudication — said the tickets will be dismissed as requested by Chief Ramsey and under the "guidelines" he specified.

"But to refund those who have paid, we will have to submit paperwork to the Office of the D.C. Treasurer to effect reimbursements," DMV spokeswoman Regina Williams said.

She said the D.C. Treasurer's process for reimbursements takes anywhere from six to eight weeks.

Chief Ramsey said ACS officials have promised to notify the violators of the error.

"It was a human error," D.C. police spokesman Sgt. Joe Gentile said yesterday. "An error was made, and we intend to have this corrected."

Chief Ramsey said it was important to point out that "all" of the motorists who received the erroneous citations were nonetheless exceeding the speed limit, though not by as many miles per hour as the tickets indicated.

[What a pompous fucktard ass]

The speed cameras, mounted on police cruisers, began operating in August 2001 in an effort to slow down motorists on city streets.

One wonders if they would have cancelled the tickets had they not been caught.

Probably not.

They should ask for the money back plus interest plus opportunity cost.

So much for the "only the guilty will suffer bit of bull"

Say, isn't this enough people to get a class action suit going?

Sea Skimmer wrote:So much for the "only the guilty will suffer bit of bull"

Talked to nitram. He thinks I'm a paranoid moron for suggesting
a conspiracy....

the man is wonderfully NAIVE.

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20021127-4774750.htm

Cameras make for costly commute
By Brian DeBose
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Commuters are paying most of the citations issued under the District's automated traffic enforcement program.

After 15 months of using mobile
radar cameras to catch speeders, the numbers show that Maryland drivers are getting almost 50 percent of the tickets.

According to the Metropolitan Police Department's Web site, 70 percent of the District's 408,180 automated speeding citations were issued to out-of- towners: 48 percent to Maryland drivers, 14 percent to Virginians and the remaining 8 percent to drivers from other states. D.C. motorists received the remaining 30 percent of the tickets.

Richard Diamond, chief analyst for Rep. Dick Armey, Texas Republican, the outgoing House majority leader and an outspoken opponent of the cameras, has said the program is "clearly designed to target commuters" based on the geographic distribution of tickets and the deployment of
cameras on commuter roads such as Interstates 295 and 395.

Early 2001 figures provided by police showed that 60 percent of the photo-radar citations were issued on heavily traveled commuter roads and limited-access roads with no intersections or pedestrian traffic.

[Not exactly the Residental Areas that Nitram likes to spout off about]

Last year, Marylanders received 44 percent of the citations, and 21 percent went to motorists from Virginia and other states. D.C. motorists received about 35 percent of the tickets, Metropolitan Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey said.

The distribution of tickets in the photo-radar program is consistent with those from the red-light-camera program.

Chief Ramsey said last year that 75 percent of the District's red-light camera citations were issued to drivers from Maryland, Virginia and other states. Maryland drivers also receive close to 50 percent of the red-light-camera tickets.

Maryland politicians have said the numbers show only that more Maryland residents are working and doing business in the District, compared with residents of other states.

Mayor Anthony A. Williams has adamantly stated that the system is not a "proxy for a commuter tax."

He said the cameras primarily improve traffic safety. Mr. Williams also said his comments that the fine was a "tax" and "the way not to pay that tax is to not be speeding" were taken out of context and misinterpreted.
Other area officials said they see no evidence of a commuter tax and declined to comment further on the issue.

The Washington Times reported a week ago that the District made $20.6 million from the speed-camera fines in 15 months of operation, exceeding the original revenue estimates of $11 million annually.

The District has collected $19.2 million from the red-light cameras in three years of operation and wants to expand the program.

Mr. Williams and the D.C. Council decided in September to add five mobile cameras to the five now in use. They also could activate the photo-radar option in some of the District's 39 red- light cameras to help reduce the District's $323 million budget shortfall.

However, Kevin Morison, D.C. police spokesman, said the department is still analyzing numbers and has no timetable for the changes. He also said motorists will have a 30-day warning period before the cameras are activated.

Council member Phil Mendelson, at-large Democrat, said the deal appears to show that the District is "moving toward" a plan to use cameras for revenue.

The announcement about expanding the camera program has cost the District key allies, including AAA Mid-Atlantic and Mr. Armey.

Lon Anderson, AAA spokesman, said that without strong evidence showing the cameras have reduced deaths, damage and injuries, the program looks like "a tax on motorists." He also said motorists appear to be helpless in trying to change it.

MKSheppard wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:So much for the "only the guilty will suffer bit of bull"

Talked to nitram. He thinks I'm a paranoid moron for suggesting
a conspiracy....

the man is wonderfully NAIVE.

I happen to agree with Nitram. Such a conspiracy of this level is extremely risky and just plain stupid, there is no way something like this would have gone unnoticed.

Kamakazie Sith wrote: I happen to agree with Nitram. Such a conspiracy of this level is extremely risky and just plain stupid, there is no way something like this would have gone unnoticed.

Why not? Just change the speed limit and then count on the DC bureaucracy
to take over. And then when you're caught rigging the cameras,
plead innocence because the infamously slow and bureaucratic DC gov't
"lost" the orders somewhere.

This is a classic TEXTBOOK example of Government Corruption. It's not
just Mexico, it's EVERYWHERE....

Mr. Williams and the D.C. Council decided in September to add five mobile cameras to the five now in use. They also could activate the photo-radar option in some of the District's 39 red- light cameras to help reduce the District's $323 million budget shortfall.

Did anyone else catch that lovely tidbit? It's all about MONEY, MONEY
MONEY, not making sure that people follow the laws.

MKSheppard wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: I happen to agree with Nitram. Such a conspiracy of this level is extremely risky and just plain stupid, there is no way something like this would have gone unnoticed.

Why not? Just change the speed limit and then count on the DC bureaucracy
to take over. And then when you're caught rigging the cameras,
plead innocence because the infamously slow and bureaucratic DC gov't
"lost" the orders somewhere.

This is a classic TEXTBOOK example of Government Corruption. It's not
just Mexico, it's EVERYWHERE....

Mr. Williams and the D.C. Council decided in September to add five mobile cameras to the five now in use. They also could activate the photo-radar option in some of the District's 39 red- light cameras to help reduce the District's $323 million budget shortfall.

Did anyone else catch that lovely tidbit? It's all about MONEY, MONEY
MONEY, not making sure that people follow the laws.

Shep all things aside its ALWAYS about money, the safety issue just happens to be a great side benifit. Columbia, in the case of red-light camera's, has probably the greatest density of such devices on the east coast and frankly its reduced red-light runnign and fatalities enough that I don't care if they want to exapnd it for monetary purposes because it does increase safety. All you have to do to avoid a fine is obey the law, in the District cases Ramesy pointed out something you missed...even with the change in speed limit the motorists were STILL exceeding the speed limit. The easiest way not to get caught is to obey the posted speed limit (now I don't do that but I'm also not going to bitch when I get caught though I might argue about how far over I was).

CmdrWilkens wrote:

MKSheppard wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: I happen to agree with Nitram. Such a conspiracy of this level is extremely risky and just plain stupid, there is no way something like this would have gone unnoticed.

Why not? Just change the speed limit and then count on the DC bureaucracy
to take over. And then when you're caught rigging the cameras,
plead innocence because the infamously slow and bureaucratic DC gov't
"lost" the orders somewhere.

This is a classic TEXTBOOK example of Government Corruption. It's not
just Mexico, it's EVERYWHERE....

Mr. Williams and the D.C. Council decided in September to add five mobile cameras to the five now in use. They also could activate the photo-radar option in some of the District's 39 red- light cameras to help reduce the District's $323 million budget shortfall.

Did anyone else catch that lovely tidbit? It's all about MONEY, MONEY
MONEY, not making sure that people follow the laws.

Shep all things aside its ALWAYS about money, the safety issue just happens to be a great side benifit. Columbia, in the case of red-light camera's, has probably the greatest density of such devices on the east coast and frankly its reduced red-light runnign and fatalities enough that I don't care if they want to exapnd it for monetary purposes because it does increase safety. All you have to do to avoid a fine is obey the law, in the District cases Ramesy pointed out something you missed...even with the change in speed limit the motorists were STILL exceeding the speed limit. The easiest way not to get caught is to obey the posted speed limit (now I don't do that but I'm also not going to bitch when I get caught though I might argue about how far over I was).

Shep just can't understand that concept. He thinks he should be able to drive as fast as he wants whenever he wants regardless of what the law says.

MKSheppard wrote:
Why not? Just change the speed limit and then count on the DC bureaucracy
to take over. And then when you're caught rigging the cameras,
plead innocence because the infamously slow and bureaucratic DC gov't
"lost" the orders somewhere.

And all that money that you got will be taken away when someone discovers it, and it was discovered almost immediately, it just took some time before it was dealt with. In the end they lose all the money they collected in fines, and take a hit to their public reputation.

Note to self: Stay the FUCK AWAY From DC unless riding the Buses and walking...

Alyeska wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: Shep all things aside its ALWAYS about money, the safety issue just happens to be a great side benifit. Columbia, in the case of red-light camera's, has probably the greatest density of such devices on the east coast and frankly its reduced red-light runnign and fatalities enough that I don't care if they want to exapnd it for monetary purposes because it does increase safety. All you have to do to avoid a fine is obey the law, in the District cases Ramesy pointed out something you missed...even with the change in speed limit the motorists were STILL exceeding the speed limit. The easiest way not to get caught is to obey the posted speed limit (now I don't do that but I'm also not going to bitch when I get caught though I might argue about how far over I was).

Shep just can't understand that concept. He thinks he should be able to drive as fast as he wants whenever he wants regardless of what the law says.

See I actually think our speed limit system is screwed up but that doesn't change the fact that the limits exist and if you break them and are caught then don't bitch about it because you were breaking the law.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Note to self: Stay the FUCK AWAY From DC unless riding the Buses and walking...

Actually, walking DC is quite nice. I was there this past summer, and drivers were actually polite. A taxi driver apologized because the nose of his car was about a foot into the crosswalk when he had to stop sharply because the light changed. Quite a difference from Orlando, where the joke is that unless three go through on red, someone's going to get rear-ended.

CmdrWilkens wrote: See I actually think our speed limit system is screwed up but that doesn't change the fact that the limits exist and if you break them and are caught then don't bitch about it because you were breaking the law.

Care to explain to me why a deserted two lane highway with NO
PEDESTRIANS AT ALL on it has to have a speed limit of 40 MPH?

MKSheppard wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: See I actually think our speed limit system is screwed up but that doesn't change the fact that the limits exist and if you break them and are caught then don't bitch about it because you were breaking the law.

Care to explain to me why a deserted two lane highway with NO
PEDESTRIANS AT ALL on it has to have a speed limit of 40 MPH?

Once again I never said I agree with the speed limits, in fact I find some of them quite ridiculous (I-70 and -68 should be 70mph cross-state except in Cumberland for instance) HOWEVER this doesn't change the fact that it is the law and if you break it then don't bitch.

CmdrWilkens wrote:HOWEVER this doesn't change the fact that it is the law and if you break it then don't bitch.

Then explain to me how a cop passed me on that road doing 70 MPH easily
without even batting an eyelid towards me...

MKSheppard wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:HOWEVER this doesn't change the fact that it is the law and if you break it then don't bitch.

Then explain to me how a cop passed me on that road doing 70 MPH easily
without even batting an eyelid towards me...

Because he's a cop...but if he didn't have his lights on then take down his plate number because he is exceeding the speed limit without lights on which is a violaiton (and such actions have actually been cause for some tickets being dropped in Maryland).

Part of this goes back to the fact that the actual speed limits are regulatory pieces of informaiton while the actual legal statute for their creation (and the statute upon which you would be prosecuted) is that the driving speed limit must be one that is safe and reasonable, a Police Officer with considerably greater training at high sped driving than you can readily claim that he is safe and reasonable at such speeds.

Anyway I again repeat stop pointing the finger at others because if you break the law then don't bitch that you got caught...and don't bitch that others do it as well, that's 1st Grader shit "waah I know I wrote on the wall but Billy did it also..."

CmdrWilkens wrote: a Police Officer with considerably greater training at high sped driving than you can readily claim that he is safe and reasonable at such speeds.

Better training my ass.....if that's true then why are cops dying so much
in 100+ MPH collisions? That's a big issue right now with the Ford
Crown Vic IIRC.

MKSheppard wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: a Police Officer with considerably greater training at high sped driving than you can readily claim that he is safe and reasonable at such speeds.

Better training my ass.....if that's true then why are cops dying so much
in 100+ MPH collisions? That's a big issue right now with the Ford
Crown Vic IIRC.

Better training does not equal a perfect record.

Cops go through high speed training, civilians do not.

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Cops go through high speed training, civilians do not.

70 MPH is not "high speed" to me. 120 MPH is.

red light cameras and speeding cameras are a HUGE revenue generator. They're cropping up all over the place in Maryland because people here love to do dumb stuff on the road. Hence, the state of Maryland and the District of Columbia stand to make a TON of money off it. One thing I wish they would do is put traffic cops out at the intersections in Baltimore and DC that are always clogged during rush hour, and ticket the fools who pull into the intersection *knowing* they'll still be sitting in it when the light turns red. We get a lot of that here, and it makes the traffic a miserable experience.

If you have to get around DC or Baltimore, take the light rail or the bus: people around here do NOT know how to drive.

beyond hope wrote:red light cameras and speeding cameras are a HUGE revenue generator. They're cropping up all over the place in Maryland because people here love to do dumb stuff on the road. Hence, the state of Maryland and the District of Columbia stand to make a TON of money off it. One thing I wish they would do is put traffic cops out at the intersections in Baltimore and DC that are always clogged during rush hour, and ticket the fools who pull into the intersection *knowing* they'll still be sitting in it when the light turns red. We get a lot of that here, and it makes the traffic a miserable experience.

If you have to get around DC or Baltimore, take the light rail or the bus: people around here do NOT know how to drive.

I think we all figured that out when people found out that our lovely region has the 2nd worst congestion in the nation but is only 13th (or 7th depending on what you count) in population.

CmdrWilkens wrote: I think we all figured that out when people found out that our lovely region has the 2nd worst congestion in the nation but is only 13th (or 7th depending on what you count) in population.

Blame it on all the damn bureaucrats who work in DC but commute
from VA or MD..

If I want to get into DC, I park at a light rail station someplace like Columbia and ride in from there. 495 and 95 are such a mess that I will not travel them unless I've got no other choice. I had a job for a while that had me traveling 695 and 97... it was a nightmare. Those 45 miles of road would take an hour to an hour and a half to travel.