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It's December 7, 2002. I don't think the date needs any explaination.

A moment of silence for those who fell sixty-one years ago today, in the struggle that preceded the event, and in the expanded struggle that followed it.

.....

*plays Taps on playlist*

tora tora tora

It was to be the biggest mistake ever committed by the Empire of Japan. In less then four years there would be no Empire. Of course Japan continues to deny its own history to this very day.

Sea Skimmer wrote:It was to be the biggest mistake ever committed by the Empire of Japan. In less then four years there would be no Empire. Of course Japan continues to deny its own history to this very day.

Does anyone think they will truly admit it?
I know they are not the people today as they were 50 years ago, but still...

the days of infamy were 6th and 9th of august a couple of years later.

Captain tycho wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:It was to be the biggest mistake ever committed by the Empire of Japan. In less then four years there would be no Empire. Of course Japan continues to deny its own history to this very day.

Does anyone think they will truly admit it?
I know they are not the people today as they were 50 years ago, but still...

They publish texts books which claim thousands of women they forced into sexual slavery went willingly and enjoyed the experience. No I don't think they will ever admit to what they did and the millions they killed. Soon the last of those who fought will be dead, and their children are even less likely to care. Hell they're even lying about their navy again.

salm wrote:the days of infamy were 6th and 9th of august a couple of years later.

Go fuck yourself.

BTW, its still December 6th in Pearl.

salm wrote:the days of infamy were 6th and 9th of august a couple of years later.

I suppose you consider the death of a few million Japanese and 65,000 Americans over several months better then 130,000 in an instant?

Go to hell moron.

It was a big mistake for Japan, and day that everyone should remember. It's a shame many schoolkids tihnk it had something to do with the American Revolution.

I've never met anyone who thought that.

Sea Skimmer wrote:They publish texts books which claim thousands of women they forced into sexual slavery went willingly and enjoyed the experience. No I don't think they will ever admit to what they did and the millions they killed. Soon the last of those who fought will be dead, and their children are even less likely to care. Hell they're even lying about their navy again.

The Japanese are an extremely racist society. They really were the Asian version of the Nazis. The sad thing is that most Americans tend to think Pearl Harbour and mistreatment of American POW's is the worst thing they ever did. Pearl Harbour was nothing compared to the rape of Nanking, and those men were soldiers. Pearl was a legitimate military target; the Japanese just didn't fill in the paperwork before starting the war (as if this means anything; how many countries has America bombed since then without a formal declaration of war?). But the atrocities committed in China were on a whole different level.

Darth Wong wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:They publish texts books which claim thousands of women they forced into sexual slavery went willingly and enjoyed the experience. No I don't think they will ever admit to what they did and the millions they killed. Soon the last of those who fought will be dead, and their children are even less likely to care. Hell they're even lying about their navy again.

The Japanese are an extremely racist society. They really were the Asian version of the Nazis. The sad thing is that most Americans tend to think Pearl Harbour and mistreatment of American POW's is the worst thing they ever did. Pearl Harbour was nothing compared to the rape of Nanking, and those men were soldiers. Pearl was a legitimate military target; the Japanese just didn't fill in the paperwork before starting the war (as if this means anything; how many countries has America bombed since then without a formal declaration of war?). But the atrocities committed in China were on a whole different level.

The biological weapons test in Manchuria for one.

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:
The biological weapons test in Manchuria for one.

Forget even the tests which killed hundreds if not thousands. They deployed them operationally countless times. Smallpox was there favorite but they tried many other thing. The most notable is the Black plague, but it proved hard to spread and few died.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

salm wrote:the days of infamy were 6th and 9th of august a couple of years later.

I suppose you consider the death of a few million Japanese and 65,000 Americans over several months better then 130,000 in an instant?

Go to hell moron.

the usa would have joined the war sooner or later anyway. droping the bombs would not have been necessary.

Darth Wong wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:They publish texts books which claim thousands of women they forced into sexual slavery went willingly and enjoyed the experience. No I don't think they will ever admit to what they did and the millions they killed. Soon the last of those who fought will be dead, and their children are even less likely to care. Hell they're even lying about their navy again.

The Japanese are an extremely racist society. They really were the Asian version of the Nazis. The sad thing is that most Americans tend to think Pearl Harbour and mistreatment of American POW's is the worst thing they ever did. Pearl Harbour was nothing compared to the rape of Nanking, and those men were soldiers. Pearl was a legitimate military target; the Japanese just didn't fill in the paperwork before starting the war (as if this means anything; how many countries has America bombed since then without a formal declaration of war?). But the atrocities committed in China were on a whole different level.

How many nations has America bombed without any warning though? Not many. Pearl was however a legit target. Manila on the other hand, which had thousands killed by IJA bombing was a declared open city and all military personal removed. They kept hitting it until there troops where at the gates.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:
The biological weapons test in Manchuria for one.

Forget even the tests which killed hundreds if not thousands. They deployed them operationally countless times. Smallpox was there favorite but they tried many other thing. The most notable is the Black plague, but it proved hard to spread and few died.

They experimented with all kinds of vectors - baking into cookies, contaminated shell fragments(shrapnel) poisonous cooking salt, etc.
Then there's the infamous flea bombs.

And Japan didn't just stop in China - they went on to fuck over Southeast Asia as well.

salm wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

salm wrote:the days of infamy were 6th and 9th of august a couple of years later.

I suppose you consider the death of a few million Japanese and 65,000 Americans over several months better then 130,000 in an instant?

Go to hell moron.

the usa would have joined the war sooner or later anyway. droping the bombs would not have been necessary.

WTF? 6th and 9th of August mark the events which lead to an END of the war. America had been fighting Japan and Germany for years at that point. The only thing that would end the war was shocking Japan into surrender with the bombs or an all out invasion. One kills 130-150,000, the other kills millions.

of course, the bombs' cancers may have reached a few hundred thousand as well. but i think an invasion would have been more.

and, if you call an a-bomb dropping a day of infamy, and not the traditional pearl harbor, why not call all days of war infamy? at the end of it, it's the same state of corpse.

If anything the A-bombs were merciful compared to the firebombing campaigns conducted beforehand.
Lets face it, there's a lot to dislike about Japanese culture in general, however cool their cartoons are.

Darth Wong wrote:The Japanese are an extremely racist society. They really were the Asian version of the Nazis.

Yeah. It seems that even today the Japanese are racist and extremely xenophobic towards outsiders. For them it doesn't matter if you are European or Asian -you are simply a non-Japanese. Old habits are still going strong in their (somewhat perverted) society.

The sad thing is that most Americans tend to think Pearl Harbour and mistreatment of American POW's is the worst thing they ever did. Pearl Harbour was nothing compared to the rape of Nanking, and those men were soldiers.

Not to mention the atrocities commited in the other countries they occupied...

Pearl was a legitimate military target; the Japanese just didn't fill in the paperwork before starting the war (as if this means anything; how many countries has America bombed since then without a formal declaration of war?). But the atrocities committed in China were on a whole different level.

Methinks that the last time USA declared a war against another country (North-Korea) was in the fifties. Anyway, declaring war is/was not part of the Japanese military tradition so it could be used to partially explain the sneak attack against Pearl Harbour.


Those two nuclear bombs dropped in Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved lives, Japanese and American. An all out invasion of Japanese mainland would have decimated their civilization to a stone age.


@ Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi

USA pushed Japan against the wall. They were given no choice. It was obvious that they could not let the situation continue the way it was before Pearl Harbour, and USA knew also this very well.


@ Sea Skimmer
"Hell they're even lying about their navy again."

?

consequences wrote:If anything the A-bombs were merciful compared to the firebombing campaigns conducted beforehand.
Lets face it, there's a lot to dislike about Japanese culture in general, however cool their cartoons are.

The A-bombs were a mercy for both sides.
Millions of people would have died on both sides if it wasn't for the EMperor surrendering.
Current Japanese culture isn't so bad... at least IMO. They're becoming more Westernized anyway.

Enforcer Talen wrote:of course, the bombs' cancers may have reached a few hundred thousand as well. but i think an invasion would have been more.

and, if you call an a-bomb dropping a day of infamy, and not the traditional pearl harbor, why not call all days of war infamy? at the end of it, it's the same state of corpse.

Areas of the world have experienced far higher radioactivity levels then those cities and had fewer many many die of cancer.

salm wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

salm wrote:the days of infamy were 6th and 9th of august a couple of years later.

I suppose you consider the death of a few million Japanese and 65,000 Americans over several months better then 130,000 in an instant?

Go to hell moron.

the usa would have joined the war sooner or later anyway. droping the bombs would not have been necessary.

A) it would have cost a lot more lives, both American and Japanese, to mount an invasion of the Japanese home islands, and

B) you would have had the Soviet Union participate in the invasion, resulting in a divided Japan just like Germany and Korea, and perhaps a communist North Japan just like North Korea is today - nukes and all.

Oh yeah, great alternative!

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Current Japanese culture isn't so bad... at least IMO. They're becoming more Westernized anyway.

I doubt it. Perhaps superficially, but using high-tech does not make them anyway more "western". I have no personal experience about dealing with the Japs, so don't take my word for granted.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

salm wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote: I suppose you consider the death of a few million Japanese and 65,000 Americans over several months better then 130,000 in an instant?

Go to hell moron.

the usa would have joined the war sooner or later anyway. droping the bombs would not have been necessary.

WTF? 6th and 9th of August mark the events which lead to an END of the war. America had been fighting Japan and Germany for years at that point. The only thing that would end the war was shocking Japan into surrender with the bombs or an all out invasion. One kills 130-150,000, the other kills millions.

kills 150 000 at once, a couple more in the next centuries, contaminates the area for ages.