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Vigilantes stir fear at border
Crossers worry that groups will open fire

Luke Turf
Tucson Citizen
Dec. 9, 2002 12:00 AM

AGUA PRIETA, SONORA - Mexicans hoping to cross the border in search of a livelihood are becoming increasingly alarmed. Word is getting out in this border town about armed vigilante patrols trying to keep them out.


Saying they fear the new militia groups more than the Border Patrol, they worry that violence may result.

"They have bullets, they're not playing; they're going to kill," said Juan Porras, a native of Chihuahua who last week had waited four days to cross the border.

Selling bags of pecans to make enough money to eat, Porras said he planned to keep trying to cross the border because he had a construction job waiting for him in Phoenix and there's no work at home.

"We're just trying to cross, nothing more," Porras said.

Rafael Duran and Gloria Rios, a couple from Durango waiting to cross the border, said they don't understand why some people want to keep them out of the United States.

"Americans benefit from our work, and Mexicans benefit from what we make.

It's not much but it helps," Duran said.

Rios said she's afraid of the civilian patrols because she read in Mexican newspapers that they'll behave as they please.

In particular, she mentioned the Civil Homeland Defense, a new group founded by Chris Simcox, publisher of the Tombstone Tumbleweed.

Simcox couldn't be happier that word is spreading among Mexicans hoping to cross the border.

"It's working already because that means they're not going to come across," he said. "That will give our government time to mobilize the troops."

At the Iglesia Presbeteriana, a church popular with illegal immigrants who come there to pray and get information, food and water, Pastor Rodolfo Navarrete said crossers are worried about "vigilantes."

Navarrete said immigrant smugglers, known as coyotes, have been telling crossers for more than two years not to worry about the civilian patrols. But now that the Mexican media have publicized the groups, crossers seem more worried.

"The people are a little scared," Navarrete said. "It will be a bit harder for them to cross."

Simcox's patrol is the third citizen group taking up arms to guard southern Arizona's border with Mexico.

Texas-based Ranch Rescue also has patrols on the lookout for illegal immigrants, and the American Border Patrol, based in Sierra Vista, has set up electronic surveillance equipment to monitor them.

So far, there have been no known shootings by members of the armed patrols, although Ranch Rescue last month said it chased a group of marijuana smugglers back into Mexico.

An Agua Prieta cab driver who identified himself only as Isa said immigrants, who come to his town from all over Mexico, are asking him about vigilantes.

"They know about it but they just want to go work," Isa said.

He anticipates the situation getting worse.

"It's going to get more dangerous. A lot of people are going to get killed," he said.

Duran, who said he and Rios were robbed by a coyote, said that between crooked smugglers and armed militias, crossing the border has become too dangerous.

The couple plan to give up the idea of crossing and return to Durango.

"They're looking at us like Mexican animals," Duran said.

The "vigilantes" are wholly legitimate organizations which can perform citizens' arrests, and have the right to carry those guns to defend themselves if attacked in the process of making said arrests.

This is the only way we'll halt the flood.

I think we need to increase legal immigration, for sure - Indeed, throw open the doors, no more quotas - but we need to make them learn the English language first, to show they're genuinely interested in integrating into American society.

People who come across illegally obvious have no interest in observing any American societal customs, just breaking our laws, and should be dutifully turned back. If it takes volunteers to do it so be it.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The "vigilantes" are wholly legitimate organizations which can perform citizens' arrests, and have the right to carry those guns to defend themselves if attacked in the process of making said arrests.

And also to be judge, jury, and executioner, and tell the police precisely what happened with no inconvenient living witnesses to tell the other side of the story.

Darth Wong wrote:

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The "vigilantes" are wholly legitimate organizations which can perform citizens' arrests, and have the right to carry those guns to defend themselves if attacked in the process of making said arrests.

And also to be judge, jury, and executioner, and tell the police precisely what happened with no inconvenient living witnesses to tell the other side of the story.

It is true that taking the law into your own hands is not what this country stands for, we are a land of laws. But if a militia is setup and is run in a lawful fashion than I see nothing wrong with it.

If the people in the militia are just stopping the Mexicans and holding them until the border patrol is called and can pick them up that is ok.

If the militia is standing there saying "No you can not enter please turn around and walk away" that is also ok.

But if the militia is rounding the Mexicans up and than shooting them. Well that is wrong and should be stopped.

My feel is if your own goverment will not stop the Mexicans or anyone else from crossing our borders illegally than you should have the right to do something about it. As long as you do not take it to far.

Darth Wong wrote: And also to be judge, jury, and executioner, and tell the police precisely what happened with no inconvenient living witnesses to tell the other side of the story.

And here I thought I was pessimistic for condemning Utopians.

Well: It's not feasable to deploy enough troops there to cover the border; it would take several corps worth and an Israeli-style fence.

The heavily armed local populace, combined with flying detachments from the army, and the regular police forces already there, might, however.

Constitutionally they have the right to it, and we honestly need them to stop the flow in the short term. In the long term, changing our immigration laws will hopefully take care of most of it by regularizing it and getting these people the basics of what they need to become Americans instead of abused illegals picking fruit for third-world labour wages.

We'd just have to monitor them and naturally prosecute any suspected crimes. There's no such thing as the perfect murder, even in that scenario. I don't think many of them are fanatics; the majority are just farmers fed up with the damage done to their farms by the illegals.

As for the long term solution:

I'd create a customs agency which can only be staffed by native-born US citizens (since the Presidency has the same requirement I can't see how it would be unconstitutional). It would have the job of controlling the process of immigration.

When immigrants arrive at a customs station, they must demonstrate their ability to speak English to the satisfaction of one of thise native-born customs officers, and sign their name in the English language.

Then they get a twelve year entrance visa; as does any of their immediate family (automatically). Limitations are those with communicable diseases, or criminal records (warrants, or felony convictions, which would have a comparable offense in the USA, only).

Within the twelve years they may attempt to take the citizenship exam as many times as they desire; the course designed around a knowledge of reading and writing the English language and a knowledge of the history of our country and of our political institutions, being entirely comprehensive.

Federal aide would be provided for immersion lessons in English, for English reading and writing courses; and for the other appropriate classes (It's one of the few areas I'm willing to extend it to people, being libertarian. But I think in this case unusual circumstances do apply. The other is with veterans.) But the test would be rigorous.

Any of them which don't take it by the end of twelve years or haven't passed it by then would be deported, no appeals possible.

Furthermore, residence visas would be completely abolished except for those with technical skills, or for the short term (less than two years, required to leave the country for six months before re-applying afterwards).

Political asylum would still be a seperate category.

Essentially I think the problem with immigration today is that we make no effort to integrate the immigrants, turning our society into a ghetto society (Much worse in Europe), and these measures need to be taken to create a climate conductive to integration.

As for the danger of the militias? Well, for the moment, the flood continues and nothing is being done except for them. There is no other choice, despite their drawbacks.

One should note that they are patroling their own (private) land. Anyone has the right to prevent trespassing in their land, this doesn't mean that they can just open up and cut down a bunch of illegals walking through, but so far I have not heard of that happening.

If the illegal or soon to be illegal aliens want to come to America, perhaps they can do it the LEGAL way and avoid having to deal with militia groups. As long as they sneak into the country and as long as bussiness and the goverment turns a blind eye, the illegal immergrants will be taken advantage of from both sides of the boarder.

As far as I know no one has been shot or shot at. Although, I think the anxiety level, at least from the illegals, is increasing so we could easily end up with a mess.

If they want to come in they should come in legally. I realize they can't, however, so, as Marina said, the real way to stem the tide would be to loosen and reorganize the immigration laws. But until these militias go out and gun down a half-dozen Mexicans with shotguns, I see no problem.

As long as nobody gets hurt, private patrols don't sound too bad.
Sounds like the 'guardian angel' group to me.

The groups so far seem to be acting within the law and not like the pack of trigger-happy "Ya-hoos" that the PC media usually loves to hate. This is what a proper "militia group" is supposed to be; someone helping out the over-stretched gov't protect national interests-- not a junior terrorist group.

But I agree that most of our problems can be solved by revamping the immigrant laws. I'm a big fan of seasonal work visas, myself, with automatic renewals as long as the person has committed no serious crimes.

I find it sad that Rednecks with shotguns are doing the job of Boarder Patrol men with M-16s.

Coyote wrote:The groups so far seem to be acting within the law and not like the pack of trigger-happy "Ya-hoos" that the PC media usually loves to hate. This is what a proper "militia group" is supposed to be; someone helping out the over-stretched gov't protect national interests-- not a junior terrorist group.

But I agree that most of our problems can be solved by revamping the immigrant laws. I'm a big fan of seasonal work visas, myself, with automatic renewals as long as the person has committed no serious crimes.

I'd support seasonal ones, sure -- but the person in question has to spend at least six months of the year in Mexico or they will not be able to refile for another.

Immigration laws won't solve the problem-economic revival in Mexico will solve the problem.[/i]

Wasn't NAFTA supposed to do that?

I find it sad that Rednecks with shotguns are doing the job of Boarder Patrol men with M-16s.

Its not the fault of the Border Patrol. There is no will to stop the flow. If we really wanted to we could, but many groups would oppose any such move, and they are strong enough to make politicians listen.

ie) Agriculture Industry
Latino rights groups
Business that pay low wages
and so forth

Andrew J. wrote:Immigration laws won't solve the problem-economic revival in Mexico will solve the problem.[/i]

That would solve it completely and permanently, yes, but the USA can't do anything about that. So we can just revamp the process of migration while accepting that it is going to happen.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:

I find it sad that Rednecks with shotguns are doing the job of Boarder Patrol men with M-16s.

Its not the fault of the Border Patrol. There is no will to stop the flow. If we really wanted to we could, but many groups would oppose any such move, and they are strong enough to make politicians listen.

ie) Agriculture Industry
Latino rights groups
Business that pay low wages
and so forth

Well, I think we should get rid of the minimum wage, so that these guys can work legally once they're in the country legally. The minimum wage is a farce; it's an artificial standard that ignores the requirements of a particular business to stay afloat and what it can pay its workers.

Once these people are in the country legally and working at this low-paying jobs, legally, then they can also legally form unions to work for higher wages as the market allows. We have no need of a minimum wage; and that just encourages an entire black-market system of underpaid labour with no way for them to work to increase their wages.