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"Video games make people kill"

Posted: 2002-12-24 06:41pm
by Isil`Zha
http://www.mavav.org/resources/

buhahahaha Yup, it's real.

And while in the midst of reading this as I came across them I am able to shoot down every single last point they try and make, this is just hilarious. I think I'll send them an e-mail shooting down every last point later tonight. muahahaha

Fire away guys. :mrgreen:

Posted: 2002-12-24 06:43pm
by Brother-Captain Gaius
I wrote my 10th grade research paper on this idea and the stupidity of its creators.

Posted: 2002-12-24 06:44pm
by Isil`Zha
I plan on sending an e-mail which will systematically destroy every single last point they make.

Also notice the complete lack of any/all resources on the "Resource" page.

Posted: 2002-12-24 06:48pm
by Brother-Captain Gaius
It's probably not very good, but what the hell:
JediNeophyte wrote: “Would reasonable people see that a result of putting out [violent video games]
would be ‘a 14-year-old boy who played their video games, watched their violent movies
and viewed their provocative web site material would go to a friend’s home, steal guns,
take the guns to school the next day and gun down his classmates during a prayer
session?’ [U.S. District Judge] Johnstone wrote” (Fraser 1). No, that would be irrational.
This is one of many examples of people trying to lay the blame where it does not belong,
in this case an April 1999 suit filed against various entertainment companies on the basis
that their products causes Michael Carneal to shoot his schoolmates on December 1st,
1997 (Fraser 1). Among those sued where Nintendo of America and Sega of America,
two prominent designers and manufacturers of video games and other electronic
entertainment products. It is illogical to think that the designers of games are those
responsible for a significant portion of contemporary life’s problems.
Perhaps what is needed is greater parental influence. “. . . it is a parent’s
responsibility to make sure that they don’t have children who are playing games that have
warning labels that a kid should be 18 or older to play” (Smiley 2). If these games are so
horrible and are corrupting the minds of our youth, then why do we not prevent children
from playing them? Granted, complete control over a child’s life would not only be
immoral but also impossible, however exposure to these supposedly mind-affecting games
could be severely limited, and thus, no longer a predominant influence. “The main selling
point of [Grand Theft Auto: Vice City] is probably that it’s just an absolutely fantastic
game from a point of game play . . . if it was just theme-based, nobody would buy it”
(Smiley 2). Take into consideration that maybe violence, death, mayhem, and destruction
are not why games sell. Games generally sell based on their quality of production and
plot-writing, not just because they are gory and vulgar. Most gamers do not revel in undue
amounts of bloodshed, some hate it outright. The fact is, games sell because they are well
done and innovative, not because they are gore-fests.
Many people gain the misconception that just because violence is not directly
depicted, it does not exist. This is irrational, as many games both include and infer extreme
levels of death and destruction, and do nothing to hide it. “Many games are fairly benign,
especially strategy games, flying simulators or sports simulations” (MacQueen 3).
Consider the brilliant masterpiece of a game Master of Orion 2. In it, one assumes the role
of the leader of a galactic empire. Alliances must be forged with neighboring species,
worlds colonized, economies built, and new and advanced technology researched. The
perfect example of a so-called “strategy games.” Yet to win, one must be the dominant
presence in the galaxy, a goal generally accomplished by annihilating all who stand in the
way. One can bombard planets from orbit, enslave entire species or have them
systematically killed, assassinate enemies and sabotage their populations, or drop
biological weapons into a colony, killing billions. And this game was rated “Kids to
Adults” by the ESRB (Entertainment Software Rating Board), meaning it was deemed
suitable for any age of player. So, according to mainstream media, shooting a Nazi soldier
repeatedly (Return to Castle Wolfenstein, rated “Mature”, only suitable for those 17 or
older) is worse than obliterating entire planets of innocent civilians using the insidious
methods of weapons of mass destruction. Stalin’s phrase, “A single death is a tragedy, a
million deaths is a statistic,” comes to mind. Advice to the media, for future reference:
think before you speak.
“The perpetrators of several school massacres in the U.S. were heavy players of
the Doom and Quake series of so-called first-person shooter games” (MacQueen 3). This
means what, exactly? Another example of the media not thinking about what they are
saying. Simply because a violent person plays a violent game does not mean that the game
caused him to be a sociopath. More than likely this was merely an outlet for long-
developing psychological issues, not the cause of them. Games are just that: games. If a
bigoted, racist fascist played the board game Axis & Allies as Nazi Germany, does that
automatically mean the game turned him into a bigoted, racist fascist for the sole reason
that Nazi Germany was included in the game? No, that’s idiotic. One does not turn into a
sociopath by playing games, one has fun by playing games. “Parents like Mrs. Baker are
already banning the games, fearing they bred violent and anti-social behaviour” (Ko 1).
People also fear the dark. Perhaps that needs to be censored and banned as well.
It would also appear that the prominent members of the anti-violent gaming
movement cannot stick to their beliefs. “Besides, [Dr. Mark Genuis] adds, ‘video games
are really only useful as a babysitter for kids who lack supervision . . .” (Ko 2), “’Video
games are not a babysitter,’ says Katie Rebak, manager of media and community relations
for Rogers Video . . .” (MacQueen 3). That’s funny. The anti-game-ites contradict
themselves, and yet a sickening portion of the Western world is following what are
obviously illogical statements. “Those with a teenage history of game-playing scored
lower marks in school and were more aggressive than their non-game-playing peers” (Ko
2). Not taking into account the biased and broken nature of this study, one must wonder
that maybe less-successful and aggressive people naturally gravitate towards violent
games. The first-person shooter, which is generally thought of as the quintessential
“violent game”, is more often than not a mindless game which requires little thought on
the part of the player, thus attracting the less intellectually gifted. A good analogy would
be that these are the “reality shows” or sitcoms of television whereas afore-mentioned
strategy and piloting games are the History and Discovery channels.
Violent games serve other purposes than just entertaining teenagers. The U.S.
Army has recently begun programs to utilize games as both training and recruiting tools.
“[Major General Bill Bond] added, ‘We also want to build an awareness that the Army is
cool . . . This is a place you ought to be thinking about for a career’” (Dretzka 2).
Assuming that violence in video games does cause all the world’s problems and generates
insane, homicidal sociopaths, why not recruit them into the military, and have them do
some good instead of harm? If teenagers are influenced by these games, they could make
better recruits for the military, especially with all the current events that have occurred as
of late. Or the games could be used for training, as no drill or practice simulate the real
thing (or what appears to be the real thing). “’One of the things that we identified is the
importance of simulators for individual and group training and . . . for mission rehearsal
and leadership development’” (Dretzka 2). One particular simulation involved some
peacekeeping troopers in an accident which harmed a local boy. By using the game to
interact with the locals, they were able resolve the issue and maintain the peace, an
experience that could not have been gained from drilling and instruction (Dretzka 2).
Violent games do serve a useful purpose in the modern world.
Keep in mind, games don’t cause the problems, they get blamed for the problems.
There is a difference. Most gamers are not evil maniacal freaks set out to kill everyone
they meet, it is only the interpretation of the media that the games they play makes them
so. And if games are to be labeled as atrocities that spawn mass-murders, they should at
least be rated appropriately. In the end, however, hopefully people will come to their
senses and realize that, if anyone or anything is to blame for our troubles, its them.
Works Cited


Dretzka, G. “Violent video games find a niche training U.S. soldiers.” Chicago Tribune.
29 Sep. 2000. EBSCOhost. <http://search.epnet.com/>
Fraser, D. “Michigan judge dismissed violence law suit by families of murdered girls.” The
Paducah Sun. 10 Apr. 2000. EBSCOhost. <http://search.epnet.com/>
Ko, M. “Mortal Konsequences. “ Report/Newsmagazine (Alberta Edition).
22 May 2000. EBSCOhost. <http://search.epnet.com/>
MacQueen, K. “Killing Time.” Maclean’s.
30 Apr. 2001. EBSCOhost. <http://search.epnet.com/>
Smiley, T. “Interview: Kevin Baird and Dave Walsh.” NPR.
18 Nov. 2002. EBSCOhost. <http://search.epnet.com/>
The board doesn't like extraneous white-space, so sorry if there's no indenting and such.

Posted: 2002-12-24 07:00pm
by Sea Skimmer
What the fuck?! Whoever wrote this page could at least try to make arguments good enough to be worth the five seconds it takes to rebuttal them.

I just finished a debate on this. About a third of the way through the other team, which had to defend the claime that games cause violence, just gave up and stopped trying to do more then the minimal. We won by an overwhelming margin.

Posted: 2002-12-24 07:16pm
by HemlockGrey
Heheh. Obviously, my l33t counter-strike skills will allow me to ruthlessly hunt each and every one of them down.

ph33r

Posted: 2002-12-24 07:36pm
by Brother-Captain Gaius
HemlockGrey wrote:Heheh. Obviously, my l33t counter-strike skills will allow me to ruthlessly hunt each and every one of them down.

ph33r
Ewwwwww... CS...

DoD 0wnz0rz j00r p3wny CS.

Posted: 2002-12-24 08:13pm
by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi
I'm suprised they weren't refuted off the Internet already. I'm guessing the site to either be a few days old, or run by people that don't read any e-mail. They probably think that cauess violence too.

Posted: 2002-12-24 11:25pm
by Dennis Toy
Another slimy videogames is violent shit. Im gonna hunt them good...

Posted: 2002-12-24 11:36pm
by Dennis Toy
You wont believe the e-mail i sent to them...



My E-mail...

Hey soccer moms, you lonely piece of fat shit who no man in the world would marry can kiss my ugly brown blue-plains shit stained ass. Why dont you go to Blue-Plains in DC and suck some sewer-scum and eat shit and die you ugly bitches. Im gonna keep playing violent video games and i got a programmers guide, im gonna make violent video games and im gonna put soccermoms in it and im gonna shoot. Im gonna keep playing games till i die or till my eyes burn out. You can kiss my ass and die. Im gonna learn the fine arts of hunting people down and snuffing their lives out. It so cool, try it and you will see. I loved the sniper attacks, i wish i could have joined them so i could go around shooting soccer moms like yourself you are a bain on the first admendment, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson would have shot your asses and handed your weak skinny ugly earthworm eating asses to your husbands on a plate. Violent video games are cool. So kiss my ass and die. You people try and styfle creativity only to find it styfles back. You can forget your campaign on violent video games and go back to watching soaps and talk shows cause no one is gonna listen.

Posted: 2002-12-24 11:37pm
by data_link
Dennis Toy: that was terribly unproductive. I expected better from you. :(

Posted: 2002-12-24 11:48pm
by Alyrium Denryle
So fucking stupid

Sure play RPGs, sure I walk into a room and think of 10 ways to kill someone, but corelation does not equal causation. :D :roll:

In all seriousness though, my thinking of ways to kill people stems more from my generally morbid personallity(the motivation) and my anatomy class(the means) than anything.

I dont go around trying to cast spells or...wait yes I do :shock: :D

Posted: 2002-12-24 11:50pm
by Dennis Toy
well try it yourself.

Posted: 2002-12-24 11:52pm
by data_link
Dennis Toy wrote:well try it yourself.
No, I don't mean that the flaming was bad. I mean the fact that you posed as a video game player while flaming a bunch of people who think that video game players are violent, abusive people... you are giving them evidence!

Posted: 2002-12-25 12:21am
by Dennis Toy
i would do it, but we are dealing with people who are determined to take away our creativity...

Posted: 2002-12-25 08:19am
by Mr Bean
Denis your flaming was both moronic and idioit, I agree Data_link, I expected MUCH better from you, not the fanboy style rant you just spewed out

Posted: 2002-12-25 08:31am
by NecronLord
There should be a C'tan game.

Obliterate star systems full of innocent(?) beings for "Fun."

Then send it to them...

Posted: 2002-12-25 08:43am
by Cpt_Frank
NecronLord wrote:There should be a C'tan game.

Obliterate star systems full of innocent(?) beings for "Fun."

Then send it to them...
There should be a BFG RTS game.
It would rock.

Posted: 2002-12-25 08:58am
by The Yosemite Bear
I just sent them an Email

Ointing out my abusive childhood, The violent content of Television and Movies, & Books I grew up with, and still love (I'm going to destroy the Earth because it obstructs my view of Venus), The fact that I have been playing with Computer games since I was in Preschool, The Fact that I used to play CLUE & RISK.

So by their propaganda I should be like a serial killer by now
or at least the ruler of some third world contry.

Posted: 2002-12-26 05:56am
by Sienthal
Disturbing...I believe that even the grades are downright misinterpreted. It would seem that the person would want to have fun when he learns, hence the high marks in computer classes and the such. Could be that he doesn't see the same use or potential in other classes that he sees in a computer. Then again, on the opposite end of the spectrum, he might just not care, and would take the class simply because of its ease.

Of course, this site would only cater to the latter part of it. As my dream school, I'd want one without homework or other such useless time-sinks. Instead, a well-informed teacher and some topics for me to research would be so much more valuable to me. Sorry, just me ranting there, :).

The site, overall, is nothing new and definately nothing original.

Posted: 2002-12-26 02:37pm
by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi
I'm also wondering if these soccer moms know anyone who plays a lot of video games.

These kind of people really get on my nerves.

"We don't have a TV in out house. Because of that, my kids are doing more constructive things, like whining about how they're bored, and doing nothing. My oldest kid is a C student, but I'm sure they'd be worse if she did watch TV. And my youngest kid never saw the horrors of the planes hitting the Twin Towers because he couldn't watch them. In fact, he still doesn't know that 9/11 ever happened!"

Posted: 2002-12-26 02:39pm
by Lord Pounder
Games don't make me violent. Bastards startiung acusations like this make me violent. A game is a game get over it. Jesus i mean like i play Hitman quite a lot, that doesn't mean i'm gonna start killing people for money.

Posted: 2002-12-26 02:54pm
by SyntaxVorlon
The idea behind violent and nonviolent, in fact all games, is placing the player into a situation which he or she may never be part of. You'll probably never fly a starfighter, command a fleet destined to retake your homeworld or fight off alien invasions. Nor will you go into the ring with wrestlers or boxers with big afros. These are thing that many cannot do in real life and games are a way to live vicariously.

All of the arguments in this article could be used as proof that reading is bad for you.
"Don't think that if you don't by your child books that he isn't reading them. He can just as easily go online and download bootleg copies of contraversial and evil books that can tell him how to kill people and how he should start a revolution with the help of his friend Frodo and begin playing games where he starts speaking elvish.
Symptoms of over- readers
High grades in literature and english classes, low grades in phys Ed science and computing.
Sometimes these people will go on reading binges and not stop for days.

Violent titles include:
Rainbow Six
Ghost Recon
Beowulf
Grimm Fairytales
Frakenstein"
and so on...

Posted: 2002-12-26 03:03pm
by irishmick79
I don't know....after playing GTA Vice City for a while, does anybody notice that when they're actually driving in real life they get a sudden urge to swerve into a motorcycle driver, or squash a pedestrian? I do...

Posted: 2002-12-26 03:19pm
by DPDarkPrimus
http://blam.moap.net/images/comics/blam5.jpg

Sums it about up for how rediculous the idea is.