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I'm thinking of getting a Mazda 3. S model.

But, when I looked at their website, the only seat color they have listed for the s-model is black, and here in California that's not a really good color to have, for both the car and the seats. That and black makes the interior look a bit dark and stuffy.

So I'm hoping they could make a special case and put in something like beige seats instead, but I don't know.


Anyway, so before I completely commit to this, anyone have an even better suggestion for a car under 20K?

a bicycle perhaps? Is it really absolutely necessary to throw out so much cash?

Seggybop wrote:a bicycle perhaps? Is it really absolutely necessary to throw out so much cash?

A bike, in California? You, sir, are fucking hilarious.

I'd check out a Scion, They make a big deal about personal customization. Some of what's coming out of Korea seems to be getting pretty damn good as well. And, as always, there's the Civic.

Oh, wait, what am I saying, buy American you damn foriegn loving bastard! What you want is a nice Chevy Cobalt, or perhaps a Dodge Neon.

Quadlok wrote:A bike, in California? You, sir, are fucking hilarious.

I'd check out a Scion, They make a big deal about personal customization. Some of what's coming out of Korea seems to be getting pretty damn good as well. And, as always, there's the Civic.

Oh, wait, what am I saying, buy American you damn foriegn loving bastard! What you want is a nice Chevy Cobalt, or perhaps a Dodge Neon.

I live in Northern California, and I will say that a bike would not work for me. But a Scion!? Those are the most un-areodynamic cars ever created! I couldn't imagine getting one!

A bike would suffice.... if my daily total commute wasn't at least 20 miles (and I have to carry a fair amount of stuff each time).

I'm not aerius.

We started somewhere.

If it's too much for you, so be it, but do consider that you'll either have good exercise every day and several thousand more dollars in the bank a year, or a bit faster transport.

You might also want to see this story... remember, it's easiest to get rid of a harmful addiction before you get it in the first place.

A bit faster? Try much faster. That 20 miles a day I mentioned is NOT leisure driving, but me having to get to class on time. Not to mention I'm getting to that age where I NEED a car of my own. And didn't I mention that I have to carry a fair amount of stuff? I should clarify that as in several large-size sketchbooks and drawings, an art toolbox, plus backpack, plus whatever else I might need at the moment. I could try to build or buy some kind of pull-along cart to carry it all in, but that won't let me go as fast as I would need to go. Not to mention that you can't bike in heavy weather, like it was for several days straight a week ago. And biking, with or without bad weather, would bring me to class drenched in sweat, which is totally rude to my teachers and fellow classmates. Get up early and arrive at school early and shower there? Sorry, but I'm not going to waste all that time and effort. And that's without even taking into account that I have to go pick up my sister back and forth from HER school. Or the fact that this is California and if I ever want to get anywhere other than something inside this suburban town I'm going to have to take a freeway of one kind of another... you get the idea.

Exercise? Pfft. Running during the evening when I don't have to worry about getting drenched in sweat and pissing off everyone else in the vincinity with my body odor or worrying about whether I'm going to get somewhere in time is good enough for me.

And that pawn shop story is an extreme.

Shinova wrote:A bit faster? Try much faster. That 20 miles a day I mentioned is NOT leisure driving, but me having to get to class on time. Not to mention I'm getting to that age where I NEED a car of my own.

Need? What is this "need" you refer to so vehemently that's linked to a special age?

And didn't I mention that I have to carry a fair amount of stuff? I should clarify that as in several large-size sketchbooks and drawings, an art toolbox, plus backpack, plus whatever else I might need at the moment. I could try to build or buy some kind of pull-along cart to carry it all in, but that won't let me go as fast as I would need to go.

I carry everything mentioned there from my house to university each day, in addition to some other stuff. It doesn't require much in the way of special equipment-- oversized portfolio in between the straps of a backpack large enough to hold the other items. My trip isn't quite as far as yours, but distance is irrelevant once you have a setup.

Not to mention that you can't bike in heavy weather, like it was for several days straight a week ago.

The clothing that I had to buy last winter in order to be able to bike through snowstorms cost less than a single tank of gas.

And biking, with or without bad weather, would bring me to class drenched in sweat, which is totally rude to my teachers and fellow classmates. Get up early and arrive at school early and shower there? Sorry, but I'm not going to waste all that time and effort.

How about the time and effort it takes to earn the cash you're burning away?

And that's without even taking into account that I have to go pick up my sister back and forth from HER school.

Your sister ought to be capable of getting around by herself, then.

Exercise? Pfft. Running during the evening when I don't have to worry about getting drenched in sweat and pissing off everyone else in the vincinity with my body odor or worrying about whether I'm going to get somewhere in time is good enough for me.

You complained about potentially wasting time earlier, and yet you'd rather schedule extra time for exercise instead of simultaneously performing an already necessary function.

And that pawn shop story is an extreme.

Let's see how extreme it is once the price of gas gets jacked up even higher.


It's pretty clear that you're not cut out for bike commuting. If you don't want to do it, no one ought to make you. It's ok, I guess, as long as you realize you're starting down an unsustainable path that's very likely going to come back to own you at some point in the near future. Everyone loves to complain about how we're all so wasteful, we need to cut back on our gas use, etc., but when you ask someone if THEY are going to do anything you invariably get something about how it can never work for their lifestyle.

Sorry, I guess I'm rather bitter about the whole situation.

My wife and I bought a Hyundai Sonota, and we're quite pleased with it.

jegs2 wrote:My wife and I bought a Hyundai Sonota, and we're quite pleased with it.

Mom and dad bought one of those in 97 and they still have it, running in good condition and have been very pleased with it ever since they bought it. Except I think the OP is asking for cheaper cars I think he said under 20K. AFAIK the Sonata is more than that

VW Golf's are nice, solid, quality cars.

Have you considered getting a used car?

I have a 93 chevy corsica, which I've had since 1999 when I went off to college. If you stay up on the regular maintenance, you should get some pretty good mileage out of it.

Of course I too am looking for a new car, a friend of mine vehemently suggests a toyota (either Camry or Corolla, depending how much you're willing to spend), since in his experience as a mechanic, they have the fewest problems. He's also from Puerto Rico where they tend to recieve a lot of abuse.

But either way you go, you can get a fairly decent used car for under $10K.

What ever you decide to buy, make sure you get information on average insurance costs for particular models you're looking at, as they can vary considerably for different models in the same price range. For example, a Ford Focus will cost less to insure than a Honda Civic of similar price, because the latter is such a popular target for car thieves (and car thieves won't necessarly steal the whole car: they may also steal parts from the body such as the hubcaps). This is something most new car buyers overlook, but it's very important, as insurance costs can hurt you far more than gas prices.

Seggybop wrote: Need? What is this "need" you refer to so vehemently that's linked to a special age?

This is California. You NEED a car if you're going to be eventually living a normal life of work, this and that, etc. There's no exception. Do you live in California?

I carry everything mentioned there from my house to university each day, in addition to some other stuff. It doesn't require much in the way of special equipment-- oversized portfolio in between the straps of a backpack large enough to hold the other items. My trip isn't quite as far as yours, but distance is irrelevant once you have a setup.

The portfolio I carry is much bigger than any backpack I have or have seen (barring one of those oversized hiking bags, which would make riding a bike with rather absurd).

The clothing that I had to buy last winter in order to be able to bike through snowstorms cost less than a single tank of gas.

I'm not eager to lose my grip on the road and get hit by some car while I skid on the pavement.

How about the time and effort it takes to earn the cash you're burning away?

Exactly how poor are you that you can't afford gas?

A fairly-good paying job will more than cover the gas. And the gas money right isn't a major issue to our family right now.

Your sister ought to be capable of getting around by herself, then.

Well, she can't. She's nowhere near driving age, and can't bike as well as me.

You complained about potentially wasting time earlier, and yet you'd rather schedule extra time for exercise instead of simultaneously performing an already necessary function.

It takes more time to bike back and forth than it does to run in the evening, which is also leisure time that I can do something else in its stead if I have to.

Let's see how extreme it is once the price of gas gets jacked up even higher.

And how are you so certain that it'll get even higher? Sooner or later the buck will stop, when people finally get pissed off enough about it. Read that thread about the independent study on the price-gouging? Sooner or later, someone's going to complain about it loudly enough for the authorities and people in charge to hear.

It's pretty clear that you're not cut out for bike commuting. If you don't want to do it, no one ought to make you. It's ok, I guess, as long as you realize you're starting down an unsustainable path that's very likely going to come back to own you at some point in the near future. Everyone loves to complain about how we're all so wasteful, we need to cut back on our gas use, etc., but when you ask someone if THEY are going to do anything you invariably get something about how it can never work for their lifestyle.

Sorry, I guess I'm rather bitter about the whole situation.

And back to the most important detail: this is California. You clearly do not live in this state. Thus, you know NOTHING about what life is like here. So I find it dubious you can call a Californian's decisions about his lifestyle irresponsible or unsustainable when you don't even have a second-hand idea or knowledge about what life is like over here. So take your moralizing bull and go stuff it where you live, which is obviously not here in California.

Chrysler Sebrings are nice if you are into sporty sedans.

Also Mercury Sables are nice. But I think they stopped making those or are going to stop making them this year.

The portfolio I carry is much bigger than any backpack I have or have seen (barring one of those oversized hiking bags, which would make riding a bike with rather absurd).

You misunderstood-- the portfolio doesn't go inside the pack; it goes in between the pack and your back. It's sort of tricky but it works well.

Exactly how poor are you that you can't afford gas?

How rich are you that saving thousands of dollars a year isn't a meaningful incentive? I can afford as much gas as I want, but I prefer to spend money on stuff that I don't set on fire.

And how are you so certain that it'll get even higher? Sooner or later the buck will stop, when people finally get pissed off enough about it. Read that thread about the independent study on the price-gouging? Sooner or later, someone's going to complain about it loudly enough for the authorities and people in charge to hear.

There's no more oil being generated in the ground. Every year, the supply decreases and demand goes up. There's no way that prices are ever going to start heading in the other direction beyond temporary fluctuation. This is why the whole thing isn't sustainable.

And back to the most important detail: this is California. You clearly do not live in this state. Thus, you know NOTHING about what life is like here. So I find it dubious you can call a Californian's decisions about his lifestyle irresponsible or unsustainable when you don't even have a second-hand idea or knowledge about what life is like over here. So take your moralizing bull and go stuff it where you live, which is obviously not here in California.

Why do I need to live in California to know that the world oil supply is decreasing while demand is going up? Are you saying that no matter how high the price of gasoline rises, Californians will still pay it because they've no other choice?

There ARE people who get around in California without car dependency, and live nice happy middle class lives. Examples can be found. The car is a matter of lifestyle choice, not necessity.

If California is so desperately addicted to gasoline, then California is screwed. It doesn't have anything to do with environmental responsibility or morality. The fuel is going to run out and then your car-centric (or at least gasoline-powered) society will be SOL.

If California is so desperately addicted to gasoline, then California is screwed.

People live in a manner which is ultimately unsustainable and some of them lack the means to escape this situation. Thank god you've arrived in the nick of time to save us, Captain Obvious!

The car is a matter of lifestyle choice, not necessity.

Where were you when my "rural living should be outlawed" thread made the rounds?

Shinova wrote:Anyway, so before I completely commit to this, anyone have an even better suggestion for a car under 20K?

You could buy a used car and save a ton of cash. Hell, even one that's just a couple of years old would shave thousands off the price tag.

Uraniun235 wrote:

If California is so desperately addicted to gasoline, then California is screwed.

People live in a manner which is ultimately unsustainable and some of them lack the means to escape this situation. Thank god you've arrived in the nick of time to save us, Captain Obvious!

I was trying to prevent him from getting into it before he started. I'm well aware that most people are too entrenched to change now.

The car is a matter of lifestyle choice, not necessity.

Where were you when my "rural living should be outlawed" thread made the rounds?

`Twas a wonderful plan, perfectly in line with my commie-fascist-americahatingscumbag sensibilities ~_^

Pontiac G6 or the Chevy Cobalt are excellent choices, iirc.

I just got a Suzuki Swift Z-Series (the one with the extra airbags and fog lights). It's pretty damned good for what it is; it's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside, it's got great fuel mileage, and you can fold the back seats down, put a big chest of drawers in the back and take it home at a million miles an hour. Only problems I've had so far is that Suzuki's optional cruise control is a piece of shit, there's not heaps of leg room for those passengers relegated to the back seat, and there's a lot of play in the accelerator pedal (though I'm told this is normally fixed at the 1000km service). You've simply got to try one; when you first sit in one, it's so large it feels like you're in a van, but it handles distinctly... not like a van.

Summary: It's good.

Well didn't this thread get crapped on fast... Look there's another thread about bicycles, lets go there and try and convince the starter to buy a car instead, I mean surely thats what the thread was really meant for, right???

I think the Mazda 3 is hard to beat, very good cars Mazdas but they do have a drawback in that spare parts for them aren't usually copied and made cheaper by other vendors so they cost more than for say spare parts for many Toyotas which can be made in a generic version. Sort of like with medicines.

EDIT: I would also reccomend a used car over a brand new one.

Hi Shinova,

You can get a very reasonable small car for under 20k. Here is list of cars you can look at and my thoughts/experiences:

1. Mazda3 S - A pretty solid choice for a sporty looking compact, I'd personally recommend the hatchback as it provides maximum utility. I've driven all the models of the Mazda3 at the "Mazda Rev it Up" events where you get to go on a track. The low end 3 is no hot rod but thats probably better considering your budget.

2. Honda Fit - Now that the latest generation of Civic is no longer what many people would consider an "entry level" car, Honda is coming out with a new model to take the Civic's place at the low end. Directly competing against the Scion for the college or just out of college crowd the Fit is reasonably priced and well equipped if you can live with what could be considered unique looks. I don't know when these will hit the market but I think it is soon.

3. Subaru Impreza RS - This is my vehicle. I choice the Subaru over the Mazda because it has AWD and I like to ski. Not having to stop for chains is a great bonus and the AWD has come in handy a couple of times during this extra long rain year. The RS is not the WRX, there is no blistering turbo to kick you into your seat, but my insurance and gas mileage are very acceptable. With that said the RS is still fun to drive and much sportier than my Civic whose torque leaves much to be desired. I have black seats, they get fucking hot in the summer but I bought one of those silver reflective things for the front window and it helps alot. My new job has a parking garage so that makes it all the better. I would not let black seats negate a choice of vehicle all by itself. I bought mine in December 2004 for $19,107 out the door. I dont think this years model uses the RS nomenclature, I think its the "i" now. Basically I have the 2.5L without a turbo.

4. Scion - These cars are very uniquely styled, the Tc is the best of them but look at them all.

5. While I'm not a big Ford fan, you could always check out the Focus.

6. Hyundai has come along way over the years. Give them a chance.

You could always look for a used car, but if you believe you will keep this car for 8-10 years I'd just look for the best price on a new one. Buying used saves a lot of money when you intend to keep a car for a shorter time frame.

Personally, if you don't want AWD, I'd lean toward the Mazda 3 or Honda Fit.