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Continuing the series of Helm's Deep threads by moi, here we have three hundred Fremen armed with crysknives and other weapons except Lazguns (The fight would be over in a matter of minutes thusly.) Personal shields may make this too one sided but the Fremen tradionally did not use them so lets say that that is the case here as well. They have to hold Helm's deep until Mau'Dib arrives with an army and sandworms to destroy the orcs. The orcs are not led by a former Sardukar general.

Will the superior fighting style of the Fremen allow them to hold on longer than the Rohirrim?

Absolutely not. The best they can hope to do is charge, and they will be crushed through sheer weight of numbers.

Stravo wrote:Continuing the series of Helm's Deep threads by moi, here we have three hundred Fremen armed with crysknives and other weapons except Lazguns (The fight would be over in a matter of minutes thusly.) Personal shields may make this too one sided but the Fremen tradionally did not use them so lets say that that is the case here as well. They have to hold Helm's deep until Mau'Dib arrives with an army and sandworms to destroy the orcs. The orcs are not led by a former Sardukar general.

Will the superior fighting style of the Fremen allow them to hold on longer than the Rohirrim?

I believe Fremen should be best equated with Special Forces. When used correctly they can achieve success all out of proportion to their numbers. In a straight-up fight though, there are limits to what they can do. Worse, they apparently have no ranged weapons aside from stolen ones, and little armor, all meaning they would be in more trouble than the Roherrim were.

Actually, Freemen aren't so much as trained Special Forces, but people who beat up trained Special Forces armed with guns using only knives.
Lots of dead orcs.

Yogi wrote:Actually, Freemen aren't so much as trained Special Forces, but people who beat up trained Special Forces armed with guns using only knives.
Lots of dead orcs.

Care to meet my point? In a stand-up army fight, individual training will only help so far. That's why weight of numbers is so bloody useful at times.

Eleas wrote:

Yogi wrote:Actually, Freemen aren't so much as trained Special Forces, but people who beat up trained Special Forces armed with guns using only knives.
Lots of dead orcs.

Care to meet my point? In a stand-up army fight, individual training will only help so far. That's why weight of numbers is so bloody useful at times.

To quote,perhpas poorly, Josef Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own."

The biggest killer in the era of modern Special Forces is artillery. Careful training won't make the shell bursts less lethal. Thus Spec Ops only do better in conventional situations by taking heavier losses. Witness the First Special Service Brigade in WW2.

However the Orc's have ranged weapons while they dont, which will make it more difficult for the Fremen to man the walls. I'd say they do worse and are total defeated.

Eleas wrote:

Yogi wrote:Actually, Freemen aren't so much as trained Special Forces, but people who beat up trained Special Forces armed with guns using only knives.
Lots of dead orcs.

Care to meet my point? In a stand-up army fight, individual training will only help so far. That's why weight of numbers is so bloody useful at times.

Agreed. They would incounter the same problems the Jedi did at Geonoses.

What are the Fremen armed with?

If it's just those worm teeth daggers, they're dead.

I forgot to add that the elves would still be at Helm's Deep as in the Klingon thread since the Fremen are primarily melee fighters to give them a ranged weapon edge. Also the Fremen I believe used spring loaded pistols that fired "slow" darts that could penetrate shields, hoiw useful this would be in a fight against Uruk Hai *shrug*

Stravo wrote:I forgot to add that the elves would still be at Helm's Deep as in the Klingon thread since the Fremen are primarily melee fighters to give them a ranged weapon edge. Also the Fremen I believe used spring loaded pistols that fired "slow" darts that could penetrate shields, hoiw useful this would be in a fight against Uruk Hai *shrug*

So then this is the movie rather then the book battle your using as a base. Please specify in the future.

Continuing the series of Helm's Deep threads by moi, here we have three hundred Fremen armed with crysknives and other weapons except Lazguns

Which means they get the sonic weapons from the book and movie. Battles over quickly, those weapons slaughtered Sardaukar, im sure Orcs would fall even quicker.

CmdrWilkens wrote:To quote,perhpas poorly, Josef Stalin: "Quantity has a quality all its own."

Lenin, not Stalin.

The weirding modules were a fuck up of KJA proportions. That spoilt a perfectly good movie.

Stravo wrote:Continuing the series of Helm's Deep threads by moi, here we have three hundred Fremen armed with crysknives and other weapons except Lazguns (The fight would be over in a matter of minutes thusly.) Personal shields may make this too one sided but the Fremen tradionally did not use them so lets say that that is the case here as well. They have to hold Helm's deep until Mau'Dib arrives with an army and sandworms to destroy the orcs. The orcs are not led by a former Sardukar general.

Will the superior fighting style of the Fremen allow them to hold on longer than the Rohirrim?

The Fremen would lose hard-core unless they are able to use overly-powerful ranged ordinence. I think your big question really is, how well would they stand up against the orcs in melee combat. Which is an entirely different can of worms.

The orcs would suffer losses, guaranteed, but Helms Deep would deffinately have fallen before The Queezatz Haderack(sp?) arrives wtih backup. The Fremen are ferocious gurilla fighters. If they aren't exploding out of no where, they are eating your face in a huge offensive where they finally reveal their heretofore unknown numbers.

Or they are defending Sietches. Caves in which they have spent their lives, that has the biggest moat immaginable, full of huge, flesh-eating, vehicle hating worms. The Fremen have no experience in repelling a siege from a castle, and a 10,000 strong army of Orukai would tear through Fremen defenders of Helms Deep faster than Oprah through a package of bonbons.

Darth Pounder wrote:The weirding modules were a fuck up of KJA proportions. That spoilt a perfectly good movie.

The weirding modules made for a quick and simple explanation of the Emperor's motivation to aid the Harkonnens... simplicity the movie needed in order to function within the span of a couple of hours.