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Cats vs Dogs. GET IT ON!

Posted: 2006-06-09 04:43am
by Superman
Specifications:

Intelligence:

Dogs: Anecdotal evidence and scientific research suggest that dogs have a reasonably high intelligence. This intelligence is expressed differently with different breeds and individuals, however. For example, Border Collies are noted for their ability to learn commands, while other breeds may not be so motivated towards obedience, but instead show their cleverness in devising ways to steal food or escape from a yard.

Cats: They are also intelligent animals, and some can be trained or learn by themselves to manipulate simple mechanisms such as lever-handled doors and flush toilets.

Winner: Unknown. People have been debating this one for hundreds of years. Using a toilete is pretty impressive though...

Sight:

Dogs: Dogs may actually see some color, but not to the extent that humans do. Because the lenses of dogs' eyes are flatter than humans', they cannot see as much detail; on the other hand, their eyes are more sensitive to light and motion than humans' eyes. Some breeds, particularly the best sighthounds, have a field of vision up to 270° (compared to 180° for humans), although broad-headed breeds with their eyes set forward have a much narrower field of vision, as low as 180°

Cats: A cat's vision is superior at night. In very bright light, the slit-like iris closes very narrowly over the eye, reducing the amount of light on the sensitive retina, and improving depth of field. The tapetum and other mechanisms give the cat a minimum light detection threshold up to seven times lower than that of humans.

Average cats have a visual field of view estimated at 200°, versus 180° in humans, with a binocular field narrower than that of humans. As with most predators, their eyes face forward, affording depth perception at the expense of field of view. Instead of the fovea which gives humans sharp central vision, cats have a central band known as the visual streak. Cats can apparently differentiate among colors, especially at close range, but without appreciable subtlety.

Cats have a third eyelid, the nictitating membrane, which is a thin cover that closes from the side and appears when the cat's eyelid opens.

Winner: Although some dogs have a wider field of vision, cats' eyes are generally better suited for hunting prey. Night vision and a third eyelid are pretty damn amazing.

Hearing:

Dogs: Able to detect sounds as low as the 16 to 20 Hz frequency range (compared to 20 to 70 Hz for humans) and as high as 70,000 to 100,000 Hz (compared to 20,000 Hz for humans) and in addition have a degree of ear mobility that helps them to rapidly pinpoint the exact location of a sound. Eighteen or more muscles can tilt, rotate and raise or lower a dog's ear. Additionally, a dog can identify a sound's location much faster than a human can, as well as hear sounds up to four times the distance that humans are able to.

Cats: Humans and cats have a similar range of hearing on the low end of the scale, but cats can hear much higher-pitched sounds. Cats can hear 2 octaves higher than humans, and one-half octave higher than dogs. When listening for something, a cat's ears will swivel in that direction; a cat's ear flaps can independently point backwards as well as forwards and sideways to pinpoint the source of the sound. Cats can judge within three inches (7.5 cm) the location of a sound being made one yard (approximately one meter) away.

Winner: Unclear. Cats hear higher frequences and pinpoint sounds maybe more accurately, but dogs may actually have a farther range. What do you think?

Smell:

Dogs: They have nearly 220 million smell-sensitive cells over an area about the size of a pocket handkerchief (compared to 5 million over an area the size of a postage stamp for humans). Dogs can distinguish two different types of scents when trailing, an air scent from some person or thing that has recently passed by, as well as a ground scent that remains detectable for a much longer period. The characteristics and behavior of these two types of scent trail would seem, after some thought, to be quite different, the air scent being intermittent but perhaps less obscured by competing scents, whereas the ground scent would be relatively permanent with respect to careful and repetitive search by the dog, but would seem to be much more contaminated with other scents. In any event, it is established by those who train tracking dogs that it is impossible to teach the dog how to track any better than it does naturally; the object instead is to motivate it properly, and teach it to maintain focus on a single track and ignore any others that might otherwise seem of greater interest to an untrained dog. An intensive search for a scent, for instance searching a ship for contraband, can actually be very fatiguing for a dog, and the dog must be motivated to continue this hard work for a long period of time.

Cats: A domestic cat's sense of smell is about fourteen times stronger than a human's. Cats have twice as many smell-sensitive cells in their noses as people do. Cats also have a scent organ in the roof of their mouths called the vomeronasal, or Jacobson's, organ. When a cat wrinkles its muzzle, lowers its chin, and lets its tongue hang a bit, it is opening the passage to the vomeronasal.

Winner: Dogs. Dogs are the ultimate smellers. They could probably smell a fart before it happens.

Diet:

Dogs: At present, there is an academic discussion as to whether domestic dogs are omnivores or carnivores. The classification in the Order Carnivora does not necessarily mean that a dog's diet must be restricted to meat. Unlike an obligate carnivore, such as a cat, a dog is not dependent on meat protein in order to fulfill its dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods including vegetables and grains, and in fact can consume a large proportion of these in their diet. Wild canines not only eat available plants to obtain key amino acids, but may also obtain nutrients from vegetable matter from the stomach contents of their herbivorous prey. Domestic dogs can survive healthily on a reasonable and carefully designed vegetarian diet, particularly if eggs and milk products are included.

In the wild, these diets are typically pursued in the absence of available meat. It has also been noted that extremely stressful conditions, such as the Iditarod race and scientific studies of similar conditions, suggest that high-protein diets including meat help prevent damage to muscle tissue. This research is also true of other mammals.

Cats: The domestic cat can hunt and eat about one thousand species.

Cats have highly specialized teeth and a digestive tract suitable to the digestion of meat. The premolar and first molar together compose the carnassial pair on each side of the mouth, which efficiently functions to shear meat like a pair of scissors. While this is present in canines, it is highly developed in felines. The cat's tongue has sharp spines, or papillae, useful for retaining and ripping flesh from a carcass. These papillae are small backward-facing hooks that contain keratin and assist in their grooming. Unlike most carnivores, cats eat almost no vegetable matter apart from that found in the digestive tracts of their prey. However, some domesticated cats are known to like vegetables. Whereas bears and dogs commonly supplement their diet of meat with fruits, berries, roots, and honey when they can get them, cats feed exclusively on meat, usually freshly killed. Cats, including the great cats, have a genetic anomaly that prevents them from tasting sweetness, which is probably related to their meat-only habits.

Winner: Unclear. Dogs survive on a much broader diet, but the cat has a more advanced digestive system for its diet, including a spiked tongue.

Communication:

Dogs: About 10 distinct vocalizations for dogs.

Cats: Capable of about 100 different vocalizations

Winner: Cats may develop language far greater than our own...

Conclusion: The two predators are hard to compare. :?

Posted: 2006-06-09 04:52am
by Glocksman
A coworker sent me this and its not exactly germane, but it does illustrate the differences in the ways people perceive dogs and cats.
Cyndi Jo wrote:Ever wonder why you own a dog and not a cat?

**********************************************************
The dog's diary
7am - oh boy! A walk! my favorite!

8am - oh boy! Dog Food! My favorite!

9am - oh boy! The kids! My favorite!

Noon - oh boy! The yard! My favorite!

3pm - oh boy! A car ride! My favorite!

4pm - oh boy! Playing ball! My favorite!

6pm - oh boy! Welcome home Mum! My favorite!

7pm - oh boy! Welcome Home Dad! My favorite!

8pm - oh boy! Dog Food! My favorite!

9pm - oh boy! Tummy rubs on the couch! My favorite!

11pm - oh boy! Sleeping in my people's bed! My favorite!


The Cat's Diary

Day 183 of my captivity....
My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine
lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that
keeps me going is the hope of escape and the mild satisfaction I get from
clawing the furniture. Tomorrow I may eat another house plant.

Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were
walking almost succeeded. Maybe I should try this at the top of the stairs.
In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I once again induced
myself to vomit on their favorite chair - I must try this on their bed.
Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body in an attempt to make
them aware of what I am capable of and to try to strike fear into their hearts.
They only cooed and condescended about what a good little kitty cat I was.

This is not working according to plan.

There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary
confinement throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell the
food. More important, I overheard that my confinement was due to my powers of
inducing something called "allergies". Must learn what this is and how to use it
to my advantage.

I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is
routinely released and seems more than happy to return. he is obviously a
half-wit.
The bird, on the other hand, has got to be an informant. He speaks with them
regularly and I am certain he reports my every move. Due to his current
placement in the metal room, his safety is assured. But I can wait.

Its only a matter of time......
:lol:

Posted: 2006-06-09 04:57am
by Chardok
Utility/Loyalty

Cats: Effectively useless, incredibly selfish, loners by nature, except for the very young. Cats are only marginally domesticated and will attach to whatever entity is providing food for it at any particular time.

Dogs: Hundreds of breeds bred for working or otherwise, and they do their jobs with a reckless abandon and joy that no other creature on the planet can imitate. Their "Pack sense" has lead to dogs saving countless lives over the milennia. Dogs will actively sacrifice themselves for the good of their pack. For thousands of years dogs have, in one way or anything been assisting man. Outside of the horse, the single most useful non-food animal on the planet of all time.

Winner: Dogs. I've never heard of a drug-sniffing or cancer detecting cat.

Posted: 2006-06-09 05:03am
by Spanky The Dolphin
Didn't they make a movie about this?

....

I wish I didn't know that.

Posted: 2006-06-09 05:30am
by WyrdNyrd
Despite the fact that I am a recently-converted cat person, my gut feel (not very scientific, I know) is that dogs are somewhat smarter than cats. I also take issue with the degree of anthropomorphisation that goes on around cats.

One specific example: People look at dogs' social behaviour, and their tendency to fixate on an "alpha" human, and call them servile. They then look at a cat's "devil may care" attitude, and praise its "independence".

What they're missing out on is that fact that the cat, as a species, is too damn stupid to have worked out that cooperation is a useful survival trait, not a weakness! Blame it on too many artsy-fartsy types being cat people.

My other "pet theory" (pardon the pun) is that, instead of intelligence, evolution has gifted the cat with cuteness. This is why, long after their mousing skills are no longer needed much, we still keep the little fucks around. Many is the time that, instead of flinging the irritating little hairball against the wall, like she deserves, I take one look into those wide green eyes, set in that beautiful soft furry face, and pick her up and cuddle her for hours instead.

In short, the little brat gets rewarded for being bad (in a cute way) instead of punished. The bad behaviour gets reinforced, and Daddy remains a sucker wrapped around her little paw.

Witness the insidious power of Cute! :)

Posted: 2006-06-09 05:35am
by Alan Bolte
Loyalty: totally not true for a trained cat, though they are loners in nature. Many cat owners are utter imbecils and do not train their cats to be affectionate at an early age. Essentially, they don't show their cats love, and the cats don't love them back. My ex-girlfriend's cat plays fetch, doesn't beg for table scraps, will love on you for hours aif it isn't naptime or exercise time (determined largely by time of day by the cat), and won't leave the house if you leave the door open. I find them to be significantly more like humans than dogs are, but unlike humans they don't complain or argue with you, and just want a good pet. Cats rarely need to be groomed in any way. Dogs will love you just for feeding them. Dogs' utility, while undeniable, is being gradually replaced by machines. It's breed dependant anyway, the breeds you see as pets around here are often small, easily frightened things that don't know how to do much more than run in circles or be carried, unless they're the type that stand outside barking at each other all day.

Off topic, the cat in question also won't touch meat except for its liver-flavored cat food, but loves coffee-flavored yogurt more than life itself, and is a big fan of alchoholic drinks, not that it ever gets any intentionally. Not that I partake of such a thing, but I have it on good authority that it will beg at the smell of marijuana.

EDIT: after seeing the above, I'd like to suggest that the bad behavior wouldn't happen if it wasn't rewarded.

Posted: 2006-06-09 05:57am
by CJvR
Big + for cats is their long service as pest controllers.

Posted: 2006-06-09 06:41am
by Edi
Spanky the Dolphin wrote:Didn't they make a movie about this?

....

I wish I didn't know that.
Yes, they did. It was titld Cats & Dogs and it's pretty hilarious too if you happen to be a cat or dog person. It was mainly aimed at kids, but I had a good laugh watching it.
CJvR wrote:Big + for cats is their long service as pest controllers.
You want effective pest control, you train a dog like a terrier to kill rats and mice and set it loose in an area with rats. More effective by far than a cat, which doesn't kill unless it's hungry or just gets an opportunity pounce on one. Of course, cats are a natural predator of rats and such (so are terriers and other small dogs, by the way) so they have always been drawn to food sources and that's how they came to coexist with humans when agriculture was developed.

Edi

Posted: 2006-06-09 07:07am
by Superman
Edi wrote: You want effective pest control, you train a dog like a terrier to kill rats and mice and set it loose in an area with rats. More effective by far than a cat, which doesn't kill unless it's hungry or just gets an opportunity pounce on one. Of course, cats are a natural predator of rats and such (so are terriers and other small dogs, by the way) so they have always been drawn to food sources and that's how they came to coexist with humans when agriculture was developed.

Edi
I'd love to see how many rats and mice a terrier can kill compared to a cat.

Posted: 2006-06-09 07:16am
by Gil Hamilton
CJvR wrote:Big + for cats is their long service as pest controllers.
Dogs have an equally long history of being pest controllers and not only are they generally better at it and can be trained up, but are able to hunt bigger vermin than mice.

Posted: 2006-06-09 07:25am
by Imperial Overlord
Edi wrote: More effective by far than a cat, which doesn't kill unless it's hungry or just gets an opportunity pounce on one. Of course, cats are a natural predator of rats and such (so are terriers and other small dogs, by the way) so they have always been drawn to food sources and that's how they came to coexist with humans when agriculture was developed.

Edi
That bit about cats only killing when hungry is incorrect. Cats are better at killing your local vermin when they're fed regularily. They'll hunt and kill anyway, but if they are doing it for their dinner then they expand their range, spending timie away from what you want them to protect.

Posted: 2006-06-09 07:31am
by Gil Hamilton
On intelligence, I'm utterly mystified how Supes thinks it is unclear whether dogs are smarter than cats. Most dog breeds learning ability and rate dwarfs that of all cat breeds. In fact, many cats are utterly untrainable except to basic responses, while any dog can learn them by their nature. In fact, there are breeds of dogs whose average members learn tasks with only a handful of repetitions. You can't train any cat breeds to be rescue animals or seeing eye animals or shepherds, but certain dog breeds excel at these things. Dogs have a vastly more complex social intellgence than cats and take to socialization very well.

Granted, there are some stupid breeds out there and just some dogs that are dumb as a box of rocks, but then again, there are people who are dumb as boxes of rocks too. Plus you get dogs whose intelligence is exaggerated by enthusiastic dog fanciers. Regardless of some of the dimmer members of the species, dogs have learning abilities and critical thinking skills that are demonstratible and repeatable. People trying to put cats on the same level as dogs virtually all boil down to anthropomorphizing cats and making claims like "Cats aren't trainable because they don't want to be!" or "They think they are in charge, so they don't listen to us!" Which, of course, is rubbish.

Posted: 2006-06-09 07:44am
by Stofsk
Superman wrote:I'd love to see how many rats and mice a terrier can kill compared to a cat.
I'd rather have a dog that's bred for hunting, like a Jack Russel, than a cat. I'd also settle for the love and affection of said Jack Russel, although that isn't meant to diminish the love and affection a cat can provide; I just like dogs more.

Posted: 2006-06-09 07:57am
by Darth Wong
Cat apologists generally tend to argue that the superior trainability of dogs is not real evidence of intelligence because cats are better at solving certain kinds of physical problems. Leaving aside the fact that their ability to do so without special training means it's instinctive (hence not really proof of intelligence as humans understand the term), there is a tendency among cat apologists to pretend that the advanced socialization skills of dogs are worthless, by dismissing them with comments like "dogs only do that because they've evolved to be social animals". As if social intelligence does not count as a form of intelligence.

Posted: 2006-06-09 08:02am
by theski
Image

lets see a cat do that :)
Cats and Dogs? My God, do we even have to compare the two? OBVIOUSLY, dogs are better. EVERYONE knows that. Let's go over the reasons why.

Cat owner's = evil, Dog owners = good: Some well known cat owners include Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler, Mike Tyson and Martha Stewart. See, cat owners are B@STARDS!!! Well known dog owners? None other than Mother Theresa, Billy Graham, Martin Luther King, and even Jesus! Yes, even Jesus, son of God. How can you not like dogs better than cats when Jesus had one? What are you, SOME KIND OF HEATHEN!?!

Dogs defend people: Have you heard of guard dogs? Don't you feel safer with a dog in the home? Even little dogs bark if someone tries to break in to give you a warning. Dogs = safety. What about cats? Did you ever see that Stephen King movie, "Cat's Eye"? In it, some people say cats steal people's breath. Is that what you want? To be sleeping and have some F#$%^#* cat STEAL YOUR BREATH!?! If so you deserve what you get!! What about man eating tigers? Have you heard of them? Do you want to be eaten by some f#$%!*^ species of cat? What are you, stupid???? Is that the type of behavior you want to reward in an animal?

Cats and dogs on TV: Let's say you are stuck in the woods. Your leg is caught in a bear trap. You're trapped. It's getting dark. No one knows where you are. Wouldn't you want to have a dependable border collie like Lassie getting you help? Here's an animal that has hundreds of episodes worth of lifesaving experience. Basically all he did ever week was get his stupid owner Timmy out of jams. This is like a day at the beach for Lassie. Or would you rather have Morris the cat help you? Yeah, big help he'd be. "Morris help me, my leg is in a bear trap. Help!" Here's Morris's response "Meow, meow, meow, meow." Translation "I'm a stupid cat who doesn't really understand what you're saying. Feed me and then I'll wander away and leave you to die! Then I'll come back and eat you after you're dead. I've always wanted to see what you tasted like." IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT??!?!?! TO HAVE YOUR ROTTING CARCASS EATEN BY YOUR PET?!?! THEN GET A CAT!!! BUT DON'T BLAME ME WHEN YOU DIE TRYING TO CHEW YOUR OWN LEG OFF TO GET OUT OF A BEAR TRAP!!!

Dogs are known as "Man's Best Friend": Do you know how long and hard they had to work to earn that title? There have literally been millions of species of animals, birds, insects, etc and yet dogs got the nod out of all of them. That's right, while cats were peeing on people's rugs, scratching up their furniture, and ignoring people when they call them dogs were working overtime. They were fetching papers, acting happy to see their masters, and wagging their tails every time someone even LOOKED in their directions. What about rewarding hard work? What about rewarding effort? Not picking dogs after all that work is just wrong! They've earned it!

So would you rather have a loyal, caring pet, an animal that has worked for more than 2 millenia to earn the title of man's best friend? Or on the other hand would you rather have a BREATH STEALING, ALMOST WILD ANIMAL THAT WOULD EAT YOU ALIVE IF IT COULD? For the love of God, CHOOSE DOGS!!!

Posted: 2006-06-09 08:04am
by Lord Woodlouse
As I've said before saying a cat is more intelligent because it refuses to do as we say is like saying insects are more intelligent because of their willful disobedience, or even rocks. :)

Seriously though they're different animals. Dogs are social animals, so from a human point of view they're just a lot more like us (in other ways, too, we're both cursorial hunters). A dog can't really survive very well outside of a pack (which human owners naturally tend to substitute for), while a cat is perfectly fine on its own. So in some ways it's like saying a woodlouse is better than an ant, completely disregarding the fact that an ant is really a unit as part of a hive. A dog is supposed to be a unit as part of a pack, and that's when they REALLY excel as animals. While a cat is a superb individual predator.

I reckons.

Posted: 2006-06-09 08:49am
by Chardok
Additionally, I would just like to say one word to anyone who says cats>dogs



Laika.


Thank you, Goodnight.

Posted: 2006-06-09 09:19am
by Gil Hamilton
Regarding the Hound with the praying kid: I know how that Hound Dogs pray is going:
Oh, Dog in Heaven, whose anus smells of the finest meats, grant me tomorrow a rabbit with a broken foot, so I may chew it and leave it on the carpet of my man as a generous gift in Your name. And let tomorrow be roast chicken night, so I may sup on Thy bountious chicken skins so graciously passed unto me. And thank You again for the dead woodchuck, which I did roll in, so to disguise my odor from the many beasts of the field. In your name... woof

Posted: 2006-06-09 09:23am
by Rye
My cats don't fucking piss me off, unlike my dogs, who can be annoying beyond the call of duty. Therefore, cats are better.

The cats do not bark at nothing when I'm trying to sleep or watch something or dare to listen to music when it was quiet beforehand. The cats do not bark when it's obviously me telling them to shut up outside. The cats do not pick fights with the big labrador next door.

The cats aren't needy.

The cats don't eat shit, one of the dogs does (we thoguht it might be a nutritional deficiency, and tried lots of different foods to try and stop her doing it, but she must just love it).

The cats are softer and cuddlier than the dogs, and even though I'm allergic to them, it's still nicer to stroke the cats than the dogs.

Posted: 2006-06-09 09:27am
by Lagmonster
Dogs are almost certainly more intelligent than cats; they can learn faster and be trained to do far more things than a dog (allowing of course for their size and strength; you can't have a seeing-eye cat or rescue cat even if you happen across an anomaly of the species with exceptional intelligence).

That said, and without any experimental evidence to back me up, I'm going to suggest that cats might be more clever than dogs. In other words, I'd expect to see more innovation from the cat to independantly achieve goals.

Posted: 2006-06-09 09:34am
by Pick
Why is intelligence the deciding factor, anyway? Who the fuck cares? As long as it knows not to shit in the pantry, I really don't care.

I think that one of my favorite pets we ever had was a turtle, and turtles aren't exactly known for taking a bite out of crime. It was, however, super awesome, low maintainence, and fun.

As for dogs v. cats, I prefer cats. Because they're smarter? Meh. You can get stupid cats and stupid dogs, and I'm not asking it to do my homework. I like cats because they're low maintaince; very fluffy; mine, at least, are very friendly; they kill nearby rodents; they like to hunt, stalk, jump around, and climb trees (all very cute and fun when playing with them.) Also, they don't smell as much as dogs do, don't slobber on things, bury their feces, don't eat said feces (as some dogs will), don't need to be taken on walks, and can be left at home for reasonable periods without someone around (such as on short vacations.) Also, they don't make that horrible whining sound, don't chase people, and don't bark all the time.

Posted: 2006-06-09 10:35am
by Coyote
Cats have the low maintenece factor going for them. They're good pets for people that don't always have time for a pet. A kitten can be litter box trained within 24 hours; a puppy will still be having "accidents" for weeks even after housebreaking due to "excitement".

In the long run, though, I'm a dog person. Dogs in the puppy phase are annoying but the reward is great. Do they bark at things? Yes, but that's their job. If someone is sneaking around the house at night, what is the cat going to do to alert me?

But it all comes down to what you want a pet for. If things like protection and close company are what you seek, then its doggies for you. If you like the idea of a pet that you can leave safely for the weekend and doesn't mind your busy schedule, a cat is hard to beat.

Posted: 2006-06-09 10:40am
by Darth Wong
It's interesting that most of the arguments against dogs would also apply to small children. They're needy, they require maintenance, you can't fuck off for the weekend and leave them in the house by themselves, they make noise, they're not very independent, you have to train them before they can do anything, etc.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you can't handle a dog, you should not have kids. A kid makes the maintenance requirements of a dog seem insignificant by comparison.

Posted: 2006-06-09 10:49am
by theski
Darth Wong wrote:It's interesting that most of the arguments against dogs would also apply to small children. They're needy, they require maintenance, you can't fuck off for the weekend and leave them in the house by themselves, they make noise, they're not very independent, you have to train them before they can do anything, etc.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you can't handle a dog, you should not have kids. A kid makes the maintenance requirements of a dog seem insignificant by comparison.
Responsibility is such a bitch for some folks.. .

Posted: 2006-06-09 10:54am
by Gandalf
I prefer cats to dogs, in part because they're easier as pets. No long walks, no sessions of picking up the poop from the backyard. The hardest part of owning my adorable kitty is that she likes to be fed at 6am.

Also, I'm an indoors person. Cats are a better pet for an indoorsman. I let her out in the morning when I go out to school, and she comes back in when I come home. She curls up in my lap for a few hours every night, and it's great. I couldn't ask for a nicer pet.
Darth Wong wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you can't handle a dog, you should not have kids. A kid makes the maintenance requirements of a dog seem insignificant by comparison.
That's fair enough. I'm far from being suitable parent material, at least for the time being.