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Let me start off by saying that Terry Goodkind is a bad, bad author. I have heard expletives hurled at B&B, Robert Jordan, countless hacks and vile, scummy writers. But none so great as Terry Goodkind- he is truly the Lord of the Hacks.

First off, his characters suck ass. Richard and Kahlan apparently don't have any idea of what 'real' romance is, nor do they seem to have any sort of personality, nor do they seem to be real people. Consider: in the opening of the first book, he finds his father gutted and dead. He says he's really grief-stricken, but he doesn't act it, and by the end of the book it doesn't actually matter anymore, mostly because of the horrendously pathetic 'Luke! I am your father!' scene. Apparently, Goodkind doesn't understand the concept of 'foreshadowing'.

And then, Richard is horribly raped and tortured, but when it's done, he doesn't even seem to notice.

Let's not forget the incredibly stupid monsters that pop up for no reason, the terriblely underdeveloped villian- oh, yes, the villian. His minions molest little boys. He executes children. Yes, he's so dark and fucking evil, and driven entirely by revenge. Just one fucking problem- he's the most godawful, one-sided character in the history of fantasy. Gah. The personality of a fucking rock.

And Zed? God! I want to kill Zed. He is such a goddamn idiot. He pulls that inane trick in the begining of the book, with the amazing vanishing genitals and all that, which does exactly jack to the advance the plot. Anyone who didn't figure out that he was the Great and Mighty Wizard Man after page four probably has an IQ of 6, and he serves only two purposes:

1) Plot device/deus ex machina to keep the characters moving

2) Handpuppet for Goodkind's sermonizing.

I fucking hate it when authors preach. It almost never is pulled off correctly. And, in Goodkind's case, it's shit we already know. 'People are stupid. Passion rules reason.' The characters sit around pondering this devestating wisdom and I'm laughing my ass off. No shit! This is only something everyone knows before they get out of elementary school! Then, later on, it gets worse- the nations! Damn! If only they would unite! Why can't we all work together? Aaarg!

And the dues ex machina's are thick and fast. We meet so many characters that serve a single purpose and are gone, never to return again. It's not as bad as Jordan's 50,000 person cast, but it's still not good.

I wonder, does Goodkind actually plot this crap? Does anyone seriously think he had Jagang drawn up and concieved as a character when he wrote Wizard's First Rule? No. Neither do I. He is doing nothing but whoring the business in an attempt to rake in cash.

And some of his scenes are so absolutely ludicrous, it boggles the mind. Like the one were Richard summons all the magic in his sword and whups some 30 'Baka Ban Mana' warriors- soldiers who apparently train all the time, every day all day. One killed '50 well armed soldiers' before he was taken down.

So Richard summons the magic in his sword and proceeds to kick their asses and we are treated to a contrived fight scene which makes it clear, if you didn't already know, that Goodkind has no clue how to write action, but of course this is hidden by the incessent use of the phrase 'Bringer of Death' which is repeated roughly 150 times in two pages. Jesus. Fucking. Christ! I don't care how much magical juice Richard has, if you give 30 small children swords and have them fight him straight-up, he is definely going to come off worse for the wear. These are people who's entire LIFE is fighting!

Let me wrap this up with a quote from Kahlan's father, illustrating why Goodkind is an 'author' and not a general:

'When you are outnumbered and the situtation is hopeless, there is only one choice- you must attack!'

I believe that makes my point for me.

well, I liked tg until he wrote book 5, then I became disillusioned. I go to high school, have some real relationships, and havent read the series since.

makes it a bit rough for the shrine I built, eh? 4 copies of the early books, gatherign dust on my bookcase.

oh, and I've fought 15 kids with dowels at a boy scout camp. you can win a fight, if your good and their bad, but against olympians, I dont think I would do well, even if i was drizzt.

and, as richard hasnt used his muscles for sword combat ever in his life before, wouldnt he fall over in exhaustion even if his sword knows how to fight?

also, what brings this up now?

Personally I've never read Terry Goodkind's books. There is very little fantasy I still read, and yet it is my favourite genre (well, now it's being surpassed by horror". Most fantasy is now the same thing, a parody of itself. It is all the same stereotypical fantasy in each book, copying itself over and over.

Perfect example is the Sword of Shannara. Read it in grade 6, loved it. Read the Lord of the Rings in grade 7 or 8 and was entranced. Thought about it, realized the similarities. Checked the dates of publishing and seen how long ago LoTR was written, well before The Sword of Shannara. All Terry Brooks did was rip off LOTR completely. The similarities are overwhelming in number.

they were close, tho I remember liking shannara two yrs ago. the thot of the seekers and the four horsemen.. .mmm.

Terry Goodkind is a bad joke. How someone could write that badly and still get published is beyond comprehension.

His 'heroes' are so brutal and stupid that they deserve death. I remember reading the end of Wizard's First Rule, when Richard orders his brother's death, simply because the brother had the foolishness to be swayed by Drakon Rahl, and thinking, "this guy can't be the good guy!"

I threw away Faith of the Fallen after about two chapters, when I got to Richards whining about how nobody loved him, so they all needed to suffer under the Imperial Order so they would appreciate him more.

I wouldn't mind so much if Goodkind wrote it so that Richard was really a nasty guy with only a veneer of goodness, but instead he writes him like he's supposed to be Faramir reborn.

HemlockGrey wrote:I wouldn't mind so much if Goodkind wrote it so that Richard was really a nasty guy with only a veneer of goodness, but instead he writes him like he's supposed to be Faramir reborn.

Bingo. If you want your character to be less than completely good, you have to incorporate it into the whole story. Goodkind writes Richard as pretty bloody, but then tries to force him onto us as some swell guy, and make us sympathize with him. Sorry, doesn't work.

I read Wizard's First Rule and couldn't be bothered reading any more of the series. I don't normally read much fantasy, but a friend of mine forced me to read it, say how good it was. I personally thought it was crap, it really didn't have anything in it that grabbed my interest. I don't readmuch and if book in't interesting it tooks me a long time to read because I just put it away for ages not reading. None of th characters seemed real to me. And the plot was uninteresting. Finally that Luke I am your Father thing really pissed me off.

HemlockGrey: your description of Goodkind reminds me very much of JMS' work. Just goes to show that even the clueless can get published. Or even run their own TV shows.

Really? I've never actually seen an episode of B5, but most people seem to speak of it in reverant tones...of course, people speak of Goodkind in reverant tones, too.

I did my higher english project work on a comparison of Bab 5 with LotR's, based upon the premise that Bab 5 is really the retelling of LotR's.....such things as the Gandalf/Moria thing compated to Sheridan/Zha'dum (Moria of course being Khaza'Dum.....hmmm.....)

As for the fighting people with swords, I've managed personally to fight 15 reasonably skilled opponents and come away without taking a hit. I've over 5 years of training in fighting with axes and swords though and most (10) of those I was fighting with had less than 2 years which helped skew things a bit.....if you want to read well written character driven fantasy then a good choice is David Gemmel an author who i swear by.

Keevan. (Kevin Farrell as he is otherwise known....)

I would also like to point out that, according to himself, Terry Goodkind does not read any other fantasy. This is akin to an automobile mechanic never having actually driven a car, or a teacher never actually going through school.

Of course, we all know that this is just a bullshit excuse to cover up his pathetic plagarism of Robert Jordan, which in itself is sad.

HemlockGrey wrote:I would also like to point out that, according to himself, Terry Goodkind does not read any other fantasy. This is akin to an automobile mechanic never having actually driven a car, or a teacher never actually going through school.

Of course, we all know that this is just a bullshit excuse to cover up his pathetic plagarism of Robert Jordan, which in itself is sad.

Plagurising RJ is just efficency....he's managed to "incorporate" more things from everything else than I care to count.....a great example is :-
Mat Chauthon (sp?)
Carries a black spear/halberd weapon with two ravens etched on it and a funny little poem that mentions thought and memory.
Keeps having visions of himself gambling with one eye
Wears a wide brimmed hat
Gained knowledge after being hung from a tree.

Odin, The allfather of the Norse pantheon.
Has a black hafter spear.
Has a pair of ravens called Huggin and Munin which translate as "Thought and Memory".
Has only one eye.
Wears a wide brimmed hat to disguise this....
Hung from a tree to gain the knowledge of the runes.....


There are more parrallels between those two than just those but thats off the top of my head.

TG would just be saving time doing his own stealing.

Keevan.

Keevan_Colton wrote:

HemlockGrey wrote:I would also like to point out that, according to himself, Terry Goodkind does not read any other fantasy. This is akin to an automobile mechanic never having actually driven a car, or a teacher never actually going through school.

Of course, we all know that this is just a bullshit excuse to cover up his pathetic plagarism of Robert Jordan, which in itself is sad.

Plagurising RJ is just efficency....he's managed to "incorporate" more things from everything else than I care to count.....a great example is :-
Mat Chauthon (sp?)
Carries a black spear/halberd weapon with two ravens etched on it and a funny little poem that mentions thought and memory.
Keeps having visions of himself gambling with one eye
Wears a wide brimmed hat
Gained knowledge after being hung from a tree.

Odin, The allfather of the Norse pantheon.
Has a black hafter spear.
Has a pair of ravens called Huggin and Munin which translate as "Thought and Memory".
Has only one eye.
Wears a wide brimmed hat to disguise this....
Hung from a tree to gain the knowledge of the runes.....


There are more parrallels between those two than just those but thats off the top of my head.

TG would just be saving time doing his own stealing.

Keevan.

Why dosn't he just call his character Odin and get it over with?

I know RJ did it all deliberately....but that doesnt really change what it is....an extreme lack of originality.....he's just more honest about it than some others.

Keevan.