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Posted: **2003-01-04 03:59pm**

There always seems to be one constant in fantasy role playing, and that is
magic. By any other name (alchemy, psionics, spiritism, nigromancy) it's still
the same thing - a power that allows the user control over her or his
environment.

I've been trying to ascertain how complicated an RPG magic system people
want, as I'm creating a fairly complex one for my own. So I want to know
what you prefer. Static cast-and-forget spells like in D&D? Free-form shaping
of primal forces like in Mage? "Scientific" magic by filament weaves like in
Eon? Powerful enough to topple gods or so weak that lighting a candle isn't
guaranteed?

Discuss.

Posted: **2003-01-04 04:01pm**

Simple yet powerful. Hadokens aren't hard to make.

Posted: **2003-01-04 04:10pm**

I would go for a simple but powerful magic system. However, if the characters ever learn how, allow them to learn how to free-form spells. By combining bits of the incantations for different spells(write own a basic formula for incantations, then set incantations for set spells ie fireball) they would be able to combine traits of different spells on the fly.

Posted: **2003-01-04 04:52pm**

Easily overpowerful DBZ system

Thats what I think of the powers of Randel Al'Thor are basicly

Doing somthing small like lighting a candel is HARD because you automaticlty draw it all

Or another way of putting it

This is Magic
KABOOOM
Thats all well and good but the problem is if you draw that much. you fry yourself and the surronding countryside
Which is generaly BAD

Thefor your mind kicks in to act as a funnel, Call Magic everything at once, and only those with proper training can first tap into magic, then "funnel" what they need out of it

I've seen a system like this before and it works quite well once you get the idea behind it
Let me use the Classic Fireball example

Say Magic(Like it always is) is made up of six basic elements

Heat
Void(Aka lack of heat IE Cold)
Pressure/Force
Energy(Electrisity.. whatever)
And of Course Good and Evil

Your six elements there(So to speak) can let you do just about anything you want spell-wise, If you want Teleportation style? Easy, Your just temporarly joining into the "Magic" Flow, which do to being everwhere at once lets you get between places at the speed of thought(Or .C

)

Want light a Candel? Fine grap a tiny bit of fire pressure/force and hello insta lighter

The whole idea then is the ability to make a "fine" and "selective" enough "Funnel thingy" to acutal have things happen you want them to

Quite a change from most systems where giagantic city-block sized fireballs you can do right off the bat
However until later on if you TRY it, You become extra-crspy as well

Posted: **2003-01-04 05:32pm**

I love the D&D system of magic. It has an extensive library of pre-defined spells that one can learn, prepare and cast in a variety of different ways. The divine/arcane magic distinction is also good. The magic-user can also research and design new spells, and if you go up to the insane-50+-uber-mega-death-wizard stuff, you can do nearly anything a god could.

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:23pm**

Personally I prefer the sort of complex system that allows powerful effects.
I've been working on such a system for my own fantasy world that I write....so far though I've not done much on the magic, mostly on the social and military ends of things....
But the system I have in mind is a complex yet powerful one.

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:36pm**

My own system is, as stated, fairly complex, but this is how it works. Every
living creature possesses a soul. This soul resides on another plane, the
astral plane; this plane is a lot like B5 hyperspace in that it's composed of
roiling energy. Each soul then resides at the mouth of a conduit that leads to
the body.

Now, in order to cast a fireball, for example, the caster may draw energy
through the conduit into the caster. Then, this energy is shaped. In the case
of the fireball, this would be as follows:
(Create Containment)
(Create Flame)
(Move Object(fireball))

This surge of energy will, however, cause instabilities in the conduit. The
caster may become disoriented, listless or apathetic. To overuse magic
is to become a lifeless shell, able to obey but lacking motivation or will to
live.

Mental spells would actually occur by sending impulses over the energy
plane directly to other souls. Hmm... I wonder if this works.

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:40pm**

Personaly I'd make the magic in the game fairly weak. I am so god damn sick and tired of Fantasy RPGs where high level mages are uber-killers.
Basically I'd make the system so that fighters and mages would be roughly equaly though.

As for complexety. Well the actual game mechanics should be simple and easy to use, but the magic in the game should allow great diversity and adaptibility. No huge library's of ready made spells (like AD&D), but rather some kind of a system that allows creating your own spells.

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:40pm**

In terms of modern use of magic, I am fond of the "All dead Presidents Look alike" glaour.

Very nice when informants, and bouncer's think "George Washinton" is "Andrew Jackson"

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:42pm**

Mr Bean wrote:Say Magic(Like it always is) is made up of six basic elements

Heat
Void(Aka lack of heat IE Cold)
Pressure/Force
Energy(Electrisity.. whatever)
And of Course Good and Evil

Uh, why of course Good and Evil?

1. Aren't they redundant, as they don't immediately suggest any spells the way the others do?
2. Aren't they, well, simply boring?

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:46pm**

Sir Sirius wrote:Personaly I'd make the magic in the game fairly weak. I am so god damn sick and tired of Fantasy RPGs where high level mages are uber-killers.
Basically I'd make the system so that fighters and mages would be roughly equaly though.

Separation of warriors and mages then?

As for complexety. Well the actual game mechanics should be simple and easy to use, but the magic in the game should allow great diversity and adaptibility. No huge library's of ready made spells (like AD&D), but rather some kind of a system that allows creating your own spells.

I agree. One I used to play combined those two a bit - ready made spells,
with some guidelines for making new spells. Demanded a lot from the GM,
but when it worked it was spectacular.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:In terms of modern use of magic, I am fond of the "All dead Presidents Look alike" glaour.

Very nice when informants, and bouncer's think "George Washinton" is "Andrew Jackson"

Yeah, realistically, today Illusion spells would be damned useful.

Posted: **2003-01-04 06:47pm**

Eleas wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Say Magic(Like it always is) is made up of six basic elements

Heat
Void(Aka lack of heat IE Cold)
Pressure/Force
Energy(Electrisity.. whatever)
And of Course Good and Evil
Uh, why of course Good and Evil?

1. Aren't they redundant, as they don't immediately suggest any spells the way the others do?
2. Aren't they, well, simply boring?

I'd have put the fifth as "spirit" mental attacks etc.... in the classic arrangment of elements its :
Earth
Water
Wind
Fire
Spirit.

Posted: **2003-01-04 07:02pm**

Keevan_Colton wrote:I'd have put the fifth as "spirit" mental attacks etc.... in the classic arrangment of elements its :
Earth
Water
Wind
Fire
Spirit.

Traditional, of course. But what then about cold? What about lightning? Teleportation, then? Necromancy / death spells? Healing? Plagues?

Don't get me wrong, I think the fourfold symmetry is atmospheric, and interesting. But in my world, it will only exist as a misconception of true magic (of course, true magic will be largely forgotten...).

Posted: **2003-01-04 07:07pm**

There should be both simple and complex elements avalable. Grabbing some fire and roasting an Orc is something simple that won't yake much more than "point and click", but inscribing magic-nullifying wards on your equipment designed to go against a specific deamon would take a lot of mumbo-jumbo.

Posted: **2003-01-04 07:25pm**

I prefer a direct corrolation between power and complexity.

Posted: **2003-01-04 08:30pm**

Personal opinion : simple, powerfull, and limited.

game rules should be simple and strait-forward. In-game power should be "will scare the gods" for a high end guy. But it should be individualy limited ("OK, so you cast the spell successfully and have turned the entire world blue. However, the strain of handling that much magic power at once is not without consiquences... make a saving through at minus 1billion or fall into a coma as various parts of your brain are vaporised.")

Posted: **2003-01-04 08:32pm**

Eleas wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:Personaly I'd make the magic in the game fairly weak. I am so god damn sick and tired of Fantasy RPGs where high level mages are uber-killers.
Basically I'd make the system so that fighters and mages would be roughly equaly though.
Separation of warriors and mages then?

No, not really, all I meant was that magic shouldn't be inherently superior to cold steel in combat.
At least there should be no AD&D style strict class system. They always limit character development. I prefer systems that are "skill" based, if you know magic you can cast spells, but that doesn't mean that you can't wield a sword or wear a plate mail.

Posted: **2003-01-04 08:36pm**

My own arrangements, for both writing and roleplaying..

Spells exist both as simple and complex. The simpliest are things that even modern humans can do with some simple effort, but the effects are primitive(tiny bonuses against being hit, etc), where the most complex takes years of planning and supreme effort(rearranging a planet).

In my works, magic trumps everything short of godhood, because it's direct manipulation of reality. A mage is not invincible.. One of the main characters in one of my writings is taken down by a mundane sniper who tricked him out of his warding spells.. But if prepared, there's fuck all a mundane force can do if they can't batter down his wards.

Posted: **2003-01-04 08:40pm**

That sounds somewhat similar to the system i have in mind for my world.

Posted: **2003-01-04 09:28pm**

Eleas wrote:There always seems to be one constant in fantasy role playing, and that is
magic. By any other name (alchemy, psionics, spiritism, nigromancy) it's still
the same thing - a power that allows the user control over her or his
environment.

I've been trying to ascertain how complicated an RPG magic system people
want, as I'm creating a fairly complex one for my own. So I want to know
what you prefer. Static cast-and-forget spells like in D&D? Free-form shaping
of primal forces like in Mage? "Scientific" magic by filament weaves like in
Eon? Powerful enough to topple gods or so weak that lighting a candle isn't
guaranteed?

I like magic that has a lot of utilitarian uses, one that a resourceful individual could use for many things. I think a complex system that allows the creation of different forms of magic would make for the best gaming.

A good example I have is when my thief managed to use a fly scroll to begin fleeing a flying creature of some sort that had managed to massacre two of the party members. The mage had teleported out, and the paladin was off on his horse with the two corpses over his shoulder. I, in my panic with the creature gaining on me, pull out my singular immoveable rod (You click them in place and they will not move without a substantial strength check. They can hold 4 tons, . I shattered a glass of ingested poison over it before clicking it into place right in front of the gaping maw of the creature. Stuck, and soon to be in trouble, I escaped free.... While the rod is not the weakest of items, it is how I think magic should be, useful to the inventive and creative.

Discuss.

Posted: **2003-01-04 10:26pm**

Sir Sirius wrote: No, not really, all I meant was that magic shouldn't be inherently superior to cold steel in combat.

Ah, I dig. Sounds fairly close to ideal for me.

At least there should be no AD&D style strict class system. They always limit character development. I prefer systems that are "skill" based, if you know magic you can cast spells, but that doesn't mean that you can't wield a sword or wear a plate mail.

Indeed.

<rpg story>In one of my favourite RPGs (not the best system but very much fun) we run into this guy called Gemmel, one of the guys responsible for an infamous massacre / genocide / failed bid to overthrow the world.

He was a swordmaster beyond compare, among the finest in the world. That didn't stop him from throwing around powerful destruction spells like nobody's business. This, in a world where the average joe is just as tough as in real life.

We were very very polite to that guy.</rpg story>

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