Has anyone here had much experience at writing original fiction? I've got something in the planning stage at the moment and I'd like to gather some information on how the pros (you guys) plan things out. Things like plot, characters, sequence of events, various story related elements, humor, appropriate length and appropriate dialogue to descriptive text ratios if applicable. I'm basically doing this more as a hobby piece but I'd like to try and treat it as a professional project.
Length is one I was never sure about when I used to make fanfics for ASVS, parts in my mind would sometimes seem too short or possibly too long. Does anyone know any length guidelines? Also, are there any guidelines for acts, chapters, parts, chapters per act, total acts ect?
Thoughts on original fiction
Moderator: LadyTevar
I've had a few short stories published locally, but I've never even tried for the mainstream.
The notion of pacing is one I'm STILL working on. I'm not very good at it. The only thing I can tell you about good pacing I learned from screenplays.
That being said, I'll toss you things I've learned from writing classes.
Plot: Your basic high school stuff still applies -- build to a climax and then wind down quickly from it. Avoid too many endings (LOTR for example). Don't get too complicated -- things that are clear to you won't be clear to everyone else.
Above all, have a key idea of what your story is ABOUT. Good science fiction is generally about ideas, and what ifs. Pick a basic idea and stick with it.
Characters: Make your characters as different as possible if you can manage it. Mannerisms of speech and expressions are essential. Add plenty of emotional flaws. Obi Wan, Han Solo, and Luke were all very different characters, and you got good play between them.
Humor: This is a hard one. Humor generally writes itself. If you are stuck on humour, just remember the Scott Adams Two of Six rule. Take elements like Meanness, Cuteness, Cleverness, Bizarreness, Broken Logic, and Recognizeability. You need at least two of those to be funny. Example: Barney the Dinosaur is cute. Barney the sishkabob is funny.
Appropriate dialogue to descriptive text: this one is a toughie. Can't tell you hard and fast rules for this one. As a general rule, make sure you don't go too long without either. Too much of one, or the other, and things will get tedious.
Length: Depends on your target audience and publisher. Look up the word count on a typical paperback novel, I suppose, if that's what you're trying to make.
Pacing: Look at screenplay pacing. It's probably one of the best resources you can find on the topic. http://www.screenplaymastery.com/structure.htm Personally, I find it applies to novels just as easily.
Hope this helps.
The notion of pacing is one I'm STILL working on. I'm not very good at it. The only thing I can tell you about good pacing I learned from screenplays.
That being said, I'll toss you things I've learned from writing classes.
Plot: Your basic high school stuff still applies -- build to a climax and then wind down quickly from it. Avoid too many endings (LOTR for example). Don't get too complicated -- things that are clear to you won't be clear to everyone else.
Above all, have a key idea of what your story is ABOUT. Good science fiction is generally about ideas, and what ifs. Pick a basic idea and stick with it.
Characters: Make your characters as different as possible if you can manage it. Mannerisms of speech and expressions are essential. Add plenty of emotional flaws. Obi Wan, Han Solo, and Luke were all very different characters, and you got good play between them.
Humor: This is a hard one. Humor generally writes itself. If you are stuck on humour, just remember the Scott Adams Two of Six rule. Take elements like Meanness, Cuteness, Cleverness, Bizarreness, Broken Logic, and Recognizeability. You need at least two of those to be funny. Example: Barney the Dinosaur is cute. Barney the sishkabob is funny.
Appropriate dialogue to descriptive text: this one is a toughie. Can't tell you hard and fast rules for this one. As a general rule, make sure you don't go too long without either. Too much of one, or the other, and things will get tedious.
Length: Depends on your target audience and publisher. Look up the word count on a typical paperback novel, I suppose, if that's what you're trying to make.
Pacing: Look at screenplay pacing. It's probably one of the best resources you can find on the topic. http://www.screenplaymastery.com/structure.htm Personally, I find it applies to novels just as easily.
Hope this helps.
I find that it helps to plot out your storyline in advance, I know some guys that actually write out full blown outlines. I keep most of my outline in my head. What I tend to do is create playlists and set a soundtrack to my stories setting the major beats, romances, conflicts and resolutions to music and it helps me remember.
Not knowing where you're going tends to lead to you painting yourself into a corner.
Also it helps to know what you like to write about. Some people like to write dramatic tension filled scenes, others like to focus on politics, some folks focus on romance and its ups and downs.
For me there are two things that get me off when I'm writing. Dialogue. I can write chapters and chapters of two people just talking to each other, sometimes I think out whole scenarios in my head while taking a shower.
Battles. Damn if I don't like to write about battles, strategies, different tactics, bad luck for the heroes, good luck for the villains, etc.
Identify what you like to write about and thats where the focus of your story should be. It would do me no good to decide to write a romantic comedy as I have no skill or much interest in writing in that direction. People can tell (usually) when you have enjoyed writing your chapter because it becomes evident from the way things flow and such and then there are those bitch chapters that sit on your screen for days on end and you add maybe a paragraph here and there. You want to avoid those and do more of the flowing chapters. The only way to do that is truly enjoy what you're writing about.
Original ideas also help tremendously. There will always be room for improvement on a tried and true premise but try not to be that guy. Try to be the guy that approaches a story from a different direction and tells us something we haven't read before.
That's the hardest part about writing - is finding the premise. A good premise will usually start to write itself.
Not knowing where you're going tends to lead to you painting yourself into a corner.
Also it helps to know what you like to write about. Some people like to write dramatic tension filled scenes, others like to focus on politics, some folks focus on romance and its ups and downs.
For me there are two things that get me off when I'm writing. Dialogue. I can write chapters and chapters of two people just talking to each other, sometimes I think out whole scenarios in my head while taking a shower.
Battles. Damn if I don't like to write about battles, strategies, different tactics, bad luck for the heroes, good luck for the villains, etc.
Identify what you like to write about and thats where the focus of your story should be. It would do me no good to decide to write a romantic comedy as I have no skill or much interest in writing in that direction. People can tell (usually) when you have enjoyed writing your chapter because it becomes evident from the way things flow and such and then there are those bitch chapters that sit on your screen for days on end and you add maybe a paragraph here and there. You want to avoid those and do more of the flowing chapters. The only way to do that is truly enjoy what you're writing about.
Original ideas also help tremendously. There will always be room for improvement on a tried and true premise but try not to be that guy. Try to be the guy that approaches a story from a different direction and tells us something we haven't read before.
That's the hardest part about writing - is finding the premise. A good premise will usually start to write itself.
Wherever you go, there you are.
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Absolutely. A good outline to start is essential. The link I posted for screenplay is actually a good way to build the meat to your story. If you have a general "and then this happens. And then this happens. And then this happens" you at least know what you need to write.
That also means when you get writer's block you can work on stuff that doesn't require much creativity. I like to keep a notepad file with just random scene descriptions. When I get blocked I sit down and write talking about a desert sunset, or a lush jungle, just talking about the SCENERY. (For some reason I don't get blocked doing that.)
Not only does an excersize like that help unblock me, sometimes I can cut and paste the "sets" wholesale into the opening of a chapter, for when I AM feeling inspired and don't want to waste it on stuff.
Another thing that helps is a writing partner, or editor. I'm not talking about an idea editor, more along the lines of proper spelling and grammar. This is something I actually enjoy -- if you have a good story I'd be more than happy to give it the once over. Better yet, post it up for EVERYONE to see.
That also means when you get writer's block you can work on stuff that doesn't require much creativity. I like to keep a notepad file with just random scene descriptions. When I get blocked I sit down and write talking about a desert sunset, or a lush jungle, just talking about the SCENERY. (For some reason I don't get blocked doing that.)
Not only does an excersize like that help unblock me, sometimes I can cut and paste the "sets" wholesale into the opening of a chapter, for when I AM feeling inspired and don't want to waste it on stuff.
Another thing that helps is a writing partner, or editor. I'm not talking about an idea editor, more along the lines of proper spelling and grammar. This is something I actually enjoy -- if you have a good story I'd be more than happy to give it the once over. Better yet, post it up for EVERYONE to see.
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HemlockGrey
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Just don't get bogged down in the planning stage. I am now on the third draft of my character outlines for my sci-fi original story. Maybe someday I'll actually write more than the first part of the first chapter.
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"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
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"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
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Gandalf
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I can't understate the importance of planning.
The Priest had a kickass start, because when writing the chapter, I just said to myself "Wouldn't it be cool if...". This meant that the opening was good but didn't fare too well in the long term.
But don't be afraid to be spontaneous.
The Priest had a kickass start, because when writing the chapter, I just said to myself "Wouldn't it be cool if...". This meant that the opening was good but didn't fare too well in the long term.
But don't be afraid to be spontaneous.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
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The Prime Necromancer
- Jedi Knight
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Ugh, I can relate to that.HemlockGrey wrote:Just don't get bogged down in the planning stage. I am now on the third draft of my character outlines for my sci-fi original story. Maybe someday I'll actually write more than the first part of the first chapter.
All I ever write is background and character descriptions. And I can trace the roots of this idea all the way back around late '99 or early '00. And yet I have little actual concrete written story to show for it. Admittedly, the idea has changed a great deal over that time for the better, but still.In addition to planning, one needs to get into a habit of writing at least a little bit every day. Even if you think that what you have is not as good as you can do, or is going to get changed down the line, it's still good practice. Not just of technique, but simply of having the willpower to sit down and do it, even if everything isn't just exactly "perfect".
That's not to say planning isn't important, it very clearly is. Just that you can't allow it dominate. Basically a "being unable to see the forest for the trees" kind of situation.
Is it a crime to try and learn the truth? Is it a sin to search for those things which you fear? My purpose in this world is knowledge, and the dissemination of it. And it is I who is to restore the fruits of my labors to the entire world. Wake up! Don’t be afraid of knowledge! Humans who loose the capacity to think become creatures whose existence has no value. Think, you humans who are split into two worlds! Unless you want the gulf between humans to expand into oblivion, YOU MUST THINK! - Schwarzwald
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JediMaster415
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That's exactly my problem. I spend more time writing profiles for major and a couple minor characters while trying to sort through ten stories of ideas and keep them all formulatin while I'm not thinking on them. It's actually a physical effort for me to write a chapter.The Prime Necromancer wrote:Ugh, I can relate to that.
In addition to planning, one needs to get into a habit of writing at least a little bit every day. Even if you think that what you have is not as good as you can do, or is going to get changed down the line, it's still good practice. Not just of technique, but simply of having the willpower to sit down and do it, even if everything isn't just exactly "perfect".
That's not to say planning isn't important, it very clearly is. Just that you can't allow it dominate. Basically a "being unable to see the forest for the trees" kind of situation.
It's not exactly helping my three original stories and five Star Wars fics. Creating ships and cahracters and planets gets tiring after a while. I hate to think what it'll be like when I go professional.
