The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Commander Xillian]

Its obviously round by visual inspection, and self-contained. What would you call it?

The world itself may be round. How does he know the space around it is round too? And by a 'bubble'? Why not a ball or a sphere?

Because Bubbles are fucking awesome.

Seriously.

If you don't like bubbles, you're not human. It would be the same if you didn't like popping that plastic BUBBLE wrap.

[LadyTevar]

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We have Michael and his Angels now. We know "who decieveth the whole world" is Yahyah. What we still don't know is what YahYah actually looks like, other than 'huge' and 'brother of Satan".

We also still do not know who/what "The Targetter" might be, with his monotone voice and chilly presence.
No, I take that back... in the chapter after the Nuke was dropped, he called himself "Don Brennan".

[Atlan]

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We have Michael and his Angels now. We know "who decieveth the whole world" is Yahyah. What we still don't know is what YahYah actually looks like, other than 'huge' and 'brother of Satan".

We also still do not know who/what "The Targetter" might be, with his monotone voice and chilly presence.
No, I take that back... in the chapter after the Nuke was dropped, he called himself "Don Brennan".

Yeah, the Targeteer is actually Stuart's tribute to an old friend.

[SilverHawk]

People need to remember the scale of the W54. At the most, you're going to get a city block with it's max setting of 22 tons of explosive power. So your target needs to be specific, close and unmoving.

[Atlan]

People need to remember the scale of the W54. At the most, you're going to get a city block with it's max setting of 22 tons of explosive power. So your target needs to be specific, close and unmoving.

Actually the SADM went up to around one kiloton. IIRC the Davy Crocket version was one of those rare nuclear warheads where radiation actually had a bigger lethal area of effect than the explosion itself. Ideal for tank columns.
Also, wether 22 tons or 1 kiloton, these would have been GROUND BURSTS. The fallout would have been nasty.

[impatrick4life]

1kt... according to this nuclear blast calculator, which I've used a few times in the past: http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nucle ... tcalc.html

Looks like a ground burst outright does about a 5-10 block radius, but with the fallout not being shown in the chart, I couldn't speculate on it myself.

It certainly would do a tank column, though, I think.

One other thing: If at all possible, I think it would be better for Lemuel to have picked up a good deal of humanity's ability to forgive, and outright forgive Michael for what he did; after all, his actions may well save the angelic race from outright annihilation. It'd provide a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming, and, beyond that, I really admire the character of Michael myself >____>

[Edward Yee]

One other thing: If at all possible, I think it would be better for Lemuel to have picked up a good deal of humanity's ability to forgive, and outright forgive Michael for what he did; after all, his actions may well save the angelic race from outright annihilation. It'd provide a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming, and, beyond that, I really admire the character of Michael myself >____>

Better? I don't find him as actually having had any scenes yet involving humans and forgiveness other than with Doctor Zinder over his unintentional insult... more like Family Unfriendly Aesop.

Of course, I actually can see things going worse for Lemuel if Michael gets the "he's OUR bastard" treatment...

[MGlBlaze]

Of course, I actually can see things going worse for Lemuel if Michael gets the "he's OUR bastard" treatment...

I hope that isn't the case, really. Michael does deserve some credit (if The Power Of Friendship works out for him) for averting further massive loss of Angel life, but I don't think that means his other actions should be ignored. He's a Magnificent Bastard, but he's still a bastard nonetheless; necessary though it may have been. That and I'd really like to at least see Michael get punched in the face by Lemuel for what he did to Lemuel and especially Maion.

His position reminds me somewhat of Abigor; though rather than surrendering and defecting to the Humans (Abigor tried to be helpful after his defeat and surrender if I remember correctly), Michael's trying to redo Heaven's power structure himself. I'm not sure how well that will go over.

[Edward Yee]

I've previously mentioned my 'nightmare scenario' in terms of how Heaven's occupation would go down, especially if the troops involved are the ones who think "screw it, we don't care that Michael drugged up a good portion of the Angelic population and forced some into prostitution for heroin... 'coz he's our man."

Abigor was actually helpful after his surrender; he'd actually originally offered for his little band of survivors to return to the field (yes, foot infantry with tridents), until told what the human definition of POW was... afterward, though it rankled at him, he proved a valuable source of intel and was the one who identified Belial, Tartarus, and even attempted to draw a map with their location (as poor as it proved). Then again, he openly admitted that he was "their man," and if the demons didn't like it... "Don't tell me, tell THEM!" *points at the US Marines*

[Saint_007]

Yeah, well, he was pretty much "our man" the moment Satan threw him to the humans to be slaughtered, only for us to make a better counter-offer. I mean, really, there's no real employee loyalty in Hell, or loyalty to employees (then again, it *was* Hell).

[FuzedBox]

Stuart, I would like to thank you for keeping me on edge for about a year now with your works; great job, man!

The only real reason I registered was because I have a question about nuclear weaponry: what are those pillars that sometimes appear next to the blast?



It's just a curiosity that I can't find an answer to and figured you or someone else here could explain why these occur/what they are.

[Erra]

1kt... according to this nuclear blast calculator, which I've used a few times in the past: http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nucle ... tcalc.html

Looks like a ground burst outright does about a 5-10 block radius, but with the fallout not being shown in the chart, I couldn't speculate on it myself.

It certainly would do a tank column, though, I think.

One other thing: If at all possible, I think it would be better for Lemuel to have picked up a good deal of humanity's ability to forgive, and outright forgive Michael for what he did; after all, his actions may well save the angelic race from outright annihilation. It'd provide a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming, and, beyond that, I really admire the character of Michael myself >____>

No way. Michael's already got his CMOH with the whole nakama thing he's got going on right now against Yahweh. Lemuel either already realizes or is going to piece together the fact that those terrorist bombings, ruthless interrogations, and the angelic Auschwitz camp are all pieces in Michael's gambit. No matter how big of a dick you are working to overthrow, some things are unforgiveable and I think Lemuel is going to have some "words" with his friend over all this. Especially regarding Maion.

So no, no CMOH and of understanding and empathy for all the things poor Michael had to do. It doesn't make any damn sense for that to happen from Lemuel's perspective. But hey, maybe we'll get a Crowning Moment of Awesome when Lemuel confronts Michael.

Then again, if Lemuel ends up killing Michael, or showing the rest of the angelic host how much dirty shit had to go down to get rid of Yahweh, it could throw the entire society into chaos. Lemuel might step up to lead if he deposed Michael, but that's not really his character plus he would have Michael's aforementioned nakama to deal with, thus making his rule even more unstable.

What sweet tragedy it would be to have Michael finally win out in the end against Yahweh, start rebuilding heaven's society, get called out / fought by his old friend for the terrible things he felt like he had to do, end up falling for his sins against the angels, plunging the whole angelic host into chaos from a lack of leadership and the trauma of losing two supreme leaders in such a short amount of time, and then having Lemuel have to live with the fact that he is responsible for said chaos.

Nobody would be "wrong" in such a scenario. Simply different perspectives colliding.

[darksoul]

IN Real Life, if Michael wins and negotiate an acceptable peace with humans, he will rule, for a while, While humans asses his government. Bear in mind that Abigor can be controlled easily because he is several order of magitude more ignorant than Michael, and less slimy (odd, putting the demon in the better half of a dirtyness comparison ), but Michael can't be left to rule as he pleases, although he won't attack humans in a couple centuries more. If he wins, and doesn't negotiate, is NukeEmAll followed by CrapSackWorld and BittersweetEnding. That's not happening. Then again, this isn't Real Life, so...

However, possibilities are far more interesting should he lose. If he defeats Yahwe, and gets killed in the process, the nakama are suddenly leaderless, and Lemuel can take over with HEAVY aid of the humans. Social and political tensions in that power distribution could make good material for the third book. If Yahwe defeats him, and the nakama (useless in this scenario for the most part), maybe Yahweh would be very weak and easy to finish by either Lemuel, Jesus, the humans or the first child that pass through the gates. I can see a dying Yahweh being ripped apart by the Elders, for example. Then he can be treated either as a martyr or the resistance or as the brilliant politician and plotter he was, depending on who writes the history.

One thing is sure, Lemuel is not going to kill Michael (he knows Michael is far more powerful than him. He can antagonize, but not kill. Besides, humans are not going to let him) nor is he going to forgive him. A couple punches and Michael letting him, while his friends control Lemuel and the humans watch is an acceptable outcome.

So Michael ruling is ultimately a problem of how much punishment the author thinks Michael deserves. But in this case, the best way for Michael would be to follow the words of Harvey Dent and DIE a hero's death. Otherwise, is not going to be pretty for him if the truth gets out. Which WILL, eventually.

[CSJM]

Stuart, I would like to thank you for keeping me on edge for about a year now with your works; great job, man!

The only real reason I registered was because I have a question about nuclear weaponry: what are those pillars that sometimes appear next to the blast?



It's just a curiosity that I can't find an answer to and figured you or someone else here could explain why these occur/what they are.

IIRC, those are missiles launched simultaneously with the initiation (or slightly sooner, I forget) that are used for reference when measuring the size of the mushroom cloud or somesuch. Saw something about nuclear tests on Discovery some (long) time back. May be completely incorrect.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I don't think there's going to be a Lemuel/Michael showdown. I really think Michael is going to get an Ozymandias moment, where he admits to all the horrible shit he's done and forces Lem to realize that in order for the greater good, he HAS to let Michael get away with it.

[FuzedBox]

CSJM, I have actually wondered if that was the case in the past. That explanation seems plausible, but I still can't find any documentation or any reference to these streaks.

I hate being curious about shit that isn't often documented or even all that relevant to the parent subject.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Stuart, I would like to thank you for keeping me on edge for about a year now with your works; great job, man!

The only real reason I registered was because I have a question about nuclear weaponry: what are those pillars that sometimes appear next to the blast?



It's just a curiosity that I can't find an answer to and figured you or someone else here could explain why these occur/what they are.

IIRC, those are missiles launched simultaneously with the initiation (or slightly sooner, I forget) that are used for reference when measuring the size of the mushroom cloud or somesuch. Saw something about nuclear tests on Discovery some (long) time back. May be completely incorrect.

Smoke rockets, but the effect is the same.

[rdfox2]

Stuart, I would like to thank you for keeping me on edge for about a year now with your works; great job, man!

The only real reason I registered was because I have a question about nuclear weaponry: what are those pillars that sometimes appear next to the blast?



It's just a curiosity that I can't find an answer to and figured you or someone else here could explain why these occur/what they are.

IIRC, those are missiles launched simultaneously with the initiation (or slightly sooner, I forget) that are used for reference when measuring the size of the mushroom cloud or somesuch. Saw something about nuclear tests on Discovery some (long) time back. May be completely incorrect.

Actually, they're smoke rockets fired to measure the propogation of the blast wave/shock front--the compression of the air by the blast actually forms a lens out of the air, and when you watch the high-speed footage, you can see it progress past the smoke trails as a brief discontinuity in them. You can see a similar effect at about 1:07 in this Mythbusters clip: (Described as the "cushioning shock wave.")

Since the speed of the camera and the approximate width and spacing of the smoke trails is known, the speed of the shock front can be calculated within a fairly narrow range of accuracy at a number of different distances, which helps with calculating the actual yield compared to the predicted yield. (Remember, back in the days of atmospheric nuclear testing, every initiation was still highly experimental, and we weren't *that* certain how big the actual yield would be on any given shot, except for one specific configuration found to generate a reliable one-kiloton yield, and was used heavily in effects tests long after the design was obsolete, specifically for that highly reliable yield that made analyzing the results of the experiments simpler.)

[Arachnidus]

Hey, I'm not too big on introductions seeing as I'm a forumgoer of much experience, but I've been lurking Salvation War since late last year and I've gotta say, it's one of my favorite stories ever, up there with World War Z. Stuart, your work is triple A stuff, mate.

[FuzedBox]

I knew I could count on you guys; thanks.

[Edward Yee]

I don't think there's going to be a Lemuel/Michael showdown. I really think Michael is going to get an Ozymandias moment, where he admits to all the horrible shit he's done and forces Lem to realize that in order for the greater good, he HAS to let Michael get away with it.

This could very well happen, but what happens if the humans get word of this? Now I doubt that Putin (who already told the Mafiya that they could have a stake in Hell) or the PRC will care, but in the States... could be a different story, and I doubt that GEN Petraeus would look upon it charitably.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I don't think there's going to be a Lemuel/Michael showdown. I really think Michael is going to get an Ozymandias moment, where he admits to all the horrible shit he's done and forces Lem to realize that in order for the greater good, he HAS to let Michael get away with it.

This could very well happen, but what happens if the humans get word of this? Now I doubt that Putin (who already told the Mafiya that they could have a stake in Hell) or the PRC will care, but in the States... could be a different story, and I doubt that GEN Petraeus would look upon it charitably.

The only people with access to all the information are either dead, Michael, or Lemuel. If Lem keeps his mouth shut, the only way America would find out is if Mike publishes a memoir post-mortem.

Think about it;
Uriel is dead, Yaweh is going to be dead, and Raphael bought it. Belial is either in hiding or dead, and even HE doesn't know who was behind the idea of the camp.

Lem might have the whole truth, but I don't think he even knows the depths to which Michael has sunk. And the place where all these secrets are kept is about to be occupied by the largest mechanized military force in human history. There's no way we'd even LOOK for the conspiracy, because there are about a thousand more important things. I'm betting 200 years later historians will be debating Michael's role in the Fall of Heaven, and whether he was (as history records) a compassionate angel who slowly rose to champion the free people of Heaven in the face of tyranny, or a dark, machiavellian figure who engineered a masterfully orchestrated coup to place himself on the eternal throne.

[GrayAnderson]

I don't think there's going to be a Lemuel/Michael showdown. I really think Michael is going to get an Ozymandias moment, where he admits to all the horrible shit he's done and forces Lem to realize that in order for the greater good, he HAS to let Michael get away with it.

This could very well happen, but what happens if the humans get word of this? Now I doubt that Putin (who already told the Mafiya that they could have a stake in Hell) or the PRC will care, but in the States... could be a different story, and I doubt that GEN Petraeus would look upon it charitably.

The only people with access to all the information are either dead, Michael, or Lemuel. If Lem keeps his mouth shut, the only way America would find out is if Mike publishes a memoir post-mortem.

Think about it;
Uriel is dead, Yaweh is going to be dead, and Raphael bought it. Belial is either in hiding or dead, and even HE doesn't know who was behind the idea of the camp.

Lem might have the whole truth, but I don't think he even knows the depths to which Michael has sunk. And the place where all these secrets are kept is about to be occupied by the largest mechanized military force in human history. There's no way we'd even LOOK for the conspiracy, because there are about a thousand more important things. I'm betting 200 years later historians will be debating Michael's role in the Fall of Heaven, and whether he was (as history records) a compassionate angel who slowly rose to champion the free people of Heaven in the face of tyranny, or a dark, machiavellian figure who engineered a masterfully orchestrated coup to place himself on the eternal throne.

Well, and let's also not forget that Michael's domain will likely be limited, too, as will his control. Even as slick as he is, he does seem content (at least for now) to revitalize and rebuild angelic society on a more "human" basis. He's also not likely to retain control over the whole of Heaven; assuming that we're "nice", I would bet that he gets to basically be the Richard J. Daley of the Eternal City while we break up the outlying holdings in some way so as to ensure no overly-strong concentration of power there.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm assuming he would be the de-facto political leader of all the angels, though probably not any of the human servants in heaven.

[Arachnidus]

I'm assuming he would be the de-facto political leader of all the angels, though probably not any of the human servants in heaven.

Agreed. When the HEA storms in and sees not only Yah Yah's great general having struck him down, but also sees a charismatic political leader, their first thought would be to use him as another Abigor. However, it might get kinda messy once Michael's plan comes out in full.