The Open Door (megacrossover)

[Valorie]

We already know about them having Imperial and Eldar technology, but I’m curious about how neoChaos’ bio-tech has been refined over the years as Eva units and the Stiletto are partially organic in composition. Less advanced groups have access to their own versions of bio-tech not based on Angelic physiology, which neoChaos could adapt for their own uses.

Other bio-tech examples:
Wraith Hive-Ships (SG:A), The bioships of Species 8472 (Star Trek), Yuuzhan Yong (Star Wars), Moya and Talyn (Farscape), vessels of the Vorlon and Shadows (Babylon5), bio-booster armor (Guyver), etc.

[Garlak]

Hmmmm... since when did Tokyo-3 have a city-shield?


I don't get it. If the Bolo was so smart, why didn't it pick up on the hints of No-Limits Fallacies? All that "realizing THIS in 398.349 milliseconds" and "realizing THATin 2.0954387 seconds" stuff and it never thought of the "what-ifs" Izaak mentioned off-handedly, nor about the chess game.

Also, why didn't the Bolo notice when the Eva was aiming it's laser at the Bolo? I caught the fact that the Eva must have used precognition to be able to shoot in such a way as to majorly screw up the Eva, but... Shouldn't it STILL have taken a good bit of time to AIM such a shot? And the Bolo should have realized what the Eva was doing and where it was shooting, and then very quickly computed it all, and moved the turret.

Then I imagine, in order to prevent the Eva getting off ANY shot against it, it would have backed behind a mountain and sniped the Evangelion through the mountain. After seeing the Eva keep on dodging it's weapons, it'd likely come to suspect that something was fishy...

[D1398342003]

I thought that the telekenesis was used to move the gun, with precog used for knowing exactly how to push the gun into perfect position AND fire. It could be applied to any sort of gun, EVA not required. You'd KNOW the barrel was at the right position, you'd know WHEN it was there, you'd know exactly when to pull the trigger to hit the target perfectly.

I thought that Scipio should ask for a rematch and with the new intel gain a victory, though a minor one.

[Garlak]

I thought that the telekenesis was used to move the gun, with precog used for knowing exactly how to push the gun into perfect position AND fire. It could be applied to any sort of gun, EVA not required. You'd KNOW the barrel was at the right position, you'd know WHEN it was there, you'd know exactly when to pull the trigger to hit the target perfectly.

I thought that Scipio should ask for a rematch and with the new intel gain a victory, though a minor one.

If TK is being used to move the barrel in position, the Bolo would swiftly notice that. If TK is being used to move the barrel just as the Eva fires, then the Bolo would have already known what the Eva was aiming for and moved itself.

Essentially, that should never have happened.

[consequences]

Gee, miss the line about 'with a speed that made me reevaluate the supposed human reaction time of my opposition' much? The first warning the Bolo had was when the Eva moved faster than it should have been able to. AKA Bolo makes decision to fire, aims barrel, initiates firing sequence, liquid hyrdogen starts to fus- 'How in Silicon Hell did it aim down my barrel that quickly?!'

Of course, if the Eva pilot was being a bastard, she might also have used the AT field to either obscure the Bolo's exact view, or simply guide the shot despite her gun not being on target.

[WillowBee]

Off topic:
Has Mislaato picked a holy beast yet?

IDEAS:
A toad for toad-licking jokes.

An octopi/cephalopod for people with tentacle fetishes, although it’d need to be modified for amphibiousness to survive on land.

A panda, because the phrase “Panda-Focker” is hilarious

Honeybee: Although their social discipline might appear to contradict Mislaato’s hedonism, they’d serve as a symbolic reminder of everyone’s interdependence as part of Chaos Undivided, and their ability to produce nectar, wax, and pheromone-based chemicals would be greatly appreciated.

Plus, bug-girls like Q-Bee from “Darkstalkers” are a nice change of pace from furries like the catgirls seen everywhere in manga & anime. If honeybees were Mislaato’s holy beast, some of the pleasure goddess’ followers may choose to emulate the animal by adding wings, antennae, or a bustle-like secondary abdomen onto their bodies. Antennae are both erogenous zones and sensory organs.

Some species of hermaphrodites, like those grapoid worms from the Tremor movies.

[Darth Nostril]

An awesome fic, been following this since finished reading Thousand Shinji.
Oooh the bolo got it's arse kicked.
By a pilot using precog and TK.
So sad the bolo wankers can't accept this in a rather nifty fanfic and choose to whine instead.
Hey asshats, the bolo got it's arse kicked as part of the plot, you don't like it tough shit.
Instead of the incessant whinging how about you try your hand at writing instead.

[phongn]

So sad the bolo wankers can't accept this in a rather nifty fanfic and choose to whine instead.
Hey asshats, the bolo got it's arse kicked as part of the plot, you don't like it tough shit.
Instead of the incessant whinging how about you try your hand at writing instead.

Commentary and criticism is a welcome part of this board, and much of it regarding the latest Bolo chapter has been constructive; your comment is not. No story on this board is free from criticism, and you certainly are in no position to demand everyone else silence their disapproval.

[Darth Nostril]

I apologise for my comment.
The rash of complaints concerning the authors treatment of a certain sci-fi franchise just stuck in my craw.
I saw no reason why the the author should amend the story just to appease a handful of readers who didn't like the way their personal favourite was treated in a fictional setting.

[Aranfan]

I have never read a bolo book. I just feel that NewChaos needs to get kicked to the curb soon (in a way that they can recover from eventually) or the story will just lose all tension.

[Academia Nut]

I have a plan for them to get a massive boot to the head, but something that big is still a way's away.

Part of the problem I suppose is that Chaos is so proactive they tend to set themselves up for victory from the start. The whole adage of 'Victorious warriors win first and then go to battle, while defeated warriors go to battle and then seek to win', plus when one of the gods is a master of seeing the future, planning and plotting, Plan ZZ-Triple Z-Alpha, improvisation, and lying about 'I planned that from the beginning!' while frantically salvaging the situation behind the scenes, things tend to go their way, or at least look like they're going their way.

Anyway, it seems like the biggest contention is over the whole 'Bolo-throw' thing. When I wrote that section, I was thinking "This is awesome! The only way to beat the Bolo is to do something this insane!" Perhaps it was the clinically, unemotional way the Bolo went about things that made the battle not seem like it was an epic clash of titans, that it wasn't a hard bitten, knock down fight. I'll have to rectify that when I have the pilot's POV of fights with the Bolo.

Plus... I suppose you could say that I may have set myself up for pain in that the Chaos forces are smart enough that generally the only way they would realistically get a massive face smashing instead of just avoiding the confrontation or retreating would be for something to come out of nowhere and then I would get complaints of 'pulling threats out of my ass', which is kind of caught in a microcosm by the Bolo fight. The Bolo fought intelligently and fought hard, it pulled off incredible stunts, it took hits and kept on going, and then it got caught by something it completely did not see coming. Perhaps I need more 'took hits and kept on going' moments, but when there's a god of 'Just as planned!' around, it makes things harder to look like they actually took any real damage from the event.

[LadyTevar]

I would have to say about the only ones who could possibly snow NeoChaos might be the Ancients. As we've seen, the Ancients tend to have a hands-off policy, but individuals can and will move against policy. If Tzchinji's whole plan focuses more on the Ancient's policy, Neo-Chaos can be butchered just by Daniel Jackson Ascending unexpectantly and getting one kick-ass move on them.

[Academia Nut]

You know how I wanted the Ori arc to end? Not with bullshit superweapons and forgotten deus ex machine of the season and such. I wanted the Ancients to finally get off their high horse and let someone with a pair deal with the Ori. I basically wanted them to hand Daniel the celestial baseball bat and go to town.

So I could agree to that sentiment. Although since the Chaos response to someone willing to and capable of standing up to them is to run, it wouldn't look like much of a defeat as they would bug out at the first sign of trouble and come out the other side with most of their gear intact. Sure, Daniel could get a sucker punch on them, but as was mentioned, they think he's more of a threat than the Ancients so long as they play by the rules, so they're keeping an eye on him.

It's the trouble with having really smart characters. It's harder to realistically surprise them.

[Sute]

I have a plan for them to get a massive boot to the head, but something that big is still a way's away.

If it isn't too much of a spoiler to answer, are you talking about the thing you hinted at on SpaceBattles a while ago or something different?

[Academia Nut]

Which thing? I hint at many things?

The biggest one I can think of is tying together the general progression of the Forgotten Realms clusterfuck with what Chaos is trying to do in the Buffy-verse using canon 40k and SW and how trying to engineer a clusterfuck usually gets you exactly what you wanted: a clusterfuck.

[Sute]

I was actually thinking of something smaller than that, more of a morale injury than anything else. You said that by the end, Vita will be sane by our standards, not Chaos'. Considering all they went through to get her to be one of theirs...

[Valorie]

...but when there's a god of 'Just as planned!' around, it makes things harder to look like they actually took any real damage from the event.

For a possible weakness for Tzintchi (i.e. plot device), he could need to periodically go into a state of hibernation to rejuvenate his energies and/or re-attune his mental connection to “the strands of fate.” It’d be similar to classic Norse mythology where Odin the All-father must sleep one day a year, during which time he is as fragile as a normal human being.

Tzintchi’s slumber is the perfect time to throw a monkey wrench into the works. The three Chaos goddesses must manage on their own and I can picture Asuklon and Mislaato arguing over who gets to be in charge while an aloof Reigle tries to keep them from tearing each other apart and damaging the fabric of space/time.

Tzintchi: “F#@K! I go to sleep for one measly week, just one week, and every I’ve worked for goes to hell! Must I do everything myself!?!?”
Kali: (crying) "I don't like it when Daddy yells."
Tzintchi: (sighs in frustration)
**

[MichaelAwesome]

...but when there's a god of 'Just as planned!' around, it makes things harder to look like they actually took any real damage from the event.

For a possible weakness for Tzintchi (i.e. plot device), he could need to periodically go into a state of hibernation to rejuvenate his energies and/or re-attune his mental connection to “the strands of fate.” It’d be similar to classic Norse mythology where Odin the All-father must sleep one day a year, during which time he is as fragile as a normal human being.

Tzintchi’s slumber is the perfect time to throw a monkey wrench into the works.

Oh, I like it! They’ve become way too reliant on Tzintchi’s prescience to steer them clear of trouble, so having the God of Schemes needing to rest every now and again is the perfect chin in neoChaos' armor.

And you can make PMSing jokes about Tzintchi’s “that time of the decade” as he’d act all anxious and mood-swinging right before he’d need to hibernate, sort of like how some parents can’t enjoy a vacation because they’re too concerned about their family back home.

[EarthScorpion]

...but when there's a god of 'Just as planned!' around, it makes things harder to look like they actually took any real damage from the event.

For a possible weakness for Tzintchi (i.e. plot device), he could need to periodically go into a state of hibernation to rejuvenate his energies and/or re-attune his mental connection to “the strands of fate.” It’d be similar to classic Norse mythology where Odin the All-father must sleep one day a year, during which time he is as fragile as a normal human being.

Tzintchi’s slumber is the perfect time to throw a monkey wrench into the works. The three Chaos goddesses must manage on their own and I can picture Asuklon and Mislaato arguing over who gets to be in charge while an aloof Reigle tries to keep them from tearing each other apart and damaging the fabric of space/time.

Tzintchi: “F#@K! I go to sleep for one measly week, just one week, and every I’ve worked for goes to hell! Must I do everything myself!?!?”
Kali: (crying) "I don't like it when Daddy yells."
Tzintchi: (sighs in frustration)
**

Cool idea.

Minor nitpick, though. Kali isn't his. She's Rei's and Asuka's. I wonder, do the children of the Gods view the other two as parents, or as Uncle/ Aunts? And will Kali have have the cry "May you Die of Gangrene from a Rusty Sword!"

*strokes physicist beard*

The sample size is too small! We must see more of the children of the gods to be able to determine their nature!

*Starts practising the unholy martial art of physicists, which involves standing back, making snarky comments and discussing sci-fi, then finally getting around to "approximating" them to being a sphere in a vaccuum, then going and getting drunk*

[Garlak]

There was also something mentioned about a bigass battle in the Cthulhutech universe. I think quite a few of the Charlie Foxtrots we're seeing right now will just LEAD UP TO that.


Anyhoo: what does the Evangelion pilot think of the battle? Was she surprised--in the "okay, so my foresight tells me that--OH HOLY SHIT! IT'S GOING TO DO WHAT!--ohcrapohcrapohcrap..." impressed, or was it an easy fight for her? Mutual respect? Professional interest? Courtesy?



Also, for a god of "Just As Planned," wouldn't Tzintchi use his hyper-precognition to figure out all the issues that will come up during his hibernation and move to solve them? Or maybe even trick people into acting rashly during his hibernation time so that they'll fall into a trap?

Or Tzintchi could not have a need for hibernation at all; I doubt Tzeentch needed one. But that doesn't mean that he might not "spread" the knowledge of such a weakness around...

[Agent Sorchus]

You do not need to add things to Tzintchi's abilities to give Neo-chaos a bad day, previously the other gods would scheme and have there own plans. All you have to do is mess up one of the other Neo-Chaos god's plans to create dramatic tension. No need to change Tzintchi, or even initially include him in a brewing disaster, i.e. the pride of one of the other gods leads them to not ask or except assistance in cleaning up a mess.

It really is that simple: don't worry about Tzintchi foresight, simple step around his involvement.

[barricade]

Well you could have it that Tzintchi deliberately steps back on occasion to let events go through without his guidance. Aka, deliberately let NewChaos lose a few times so they don't get too cocky and learn to survive without him. After all, the NewChaos gods/goddesses are still comparatively weak when up against their more normal 40k counterparts, to say nothing of some of the other ascended/higher plane of existence beings out there. It might even be one of Tzintchi's plans about this - a WMD/MAD scenario where he and the goddesses are off dealing with the -big- evil, and so the grunts on the ground have to work through without his help at all.
It would at least partially explain why he sent the Stiletto out on its inter-dimensional voyage and how come even he couldn't see all the possibilities, which is why it surprised him that they were gone so long. And why he was so 'happy' about Rong's achievements without deify 'oversight'.

[Jim Starluck]

It's the trouble with having really smart characters. It's harder to realistically surprise them.

Even smart people screw up from time to time, or stumble into something they didn't anticipate. Having intelligent plans and strategies doesn't automatically have to make them infallible.

The bigger issue to me is not so much that things don't go wrong for them, it's that they don't mess up. Either everything goes according to plan, or if things don't they're able to roll with the punches and adapt. They don't have a moment where they seriously misjudge something, or fumble an operation, and afterwards are forced to look back at what they did and go "Damn, what the hell were we thinking?" or "maybe this isn't such a good idea after all..."

Even if their plans are foiled, they still give the impression that they're completely on top of the situation. With Lars, we had a first-hand look at stuff going wrong and him desperately trying to survive/escape/win/whatever, which endeared him to us. We got a little of that with Stiletto, but their attitude remained one of smug superiority over their foes. That they could do no wrong because they were Chaos, and thus automatically better than everyone else.

That's what rubs me the wrong way. Their arrogance. Even if they've every right to be arrogant--and it's debatable whether or not they do--it makes the reader less willing to root for them. That's another part of why I liked Lars earlier: he was humble and polite and compassionate, where the rest of Chaos were assholes to nearly everyone they met.

[Academia Nut]

Actually, the arrogance is an interesting point in that I am trying to break the mainline Chaos of that habit. The problem I suppose is that their leadership is really good at salvaging situations, leading to a perception on the ground of invulnerability, which can then percolate back up, at which point you get the problem of people believing their own hype.

Hmmm... I'm going to have to ruminate on this. The next chapter will show some of Ashley's perspective.

[Garlak]

One thing to mention about Ron-Arya's and the Stiletto's trip is that they deliberately went through what they called the "lower energy universes." So, it's like a college football team wandering into kindergarten and well... ya know...

On the one hand, you can be justifiably arrogant because there really is no way they'll match you. On the other hand, it's like lording it over a child or mentally retarded parapalegic. If you need to let your God Complex lord over people like that, there's something seriously wrong with you besides your arrogance.

Why not remind them that theirs were simply a recon-in-force and test flight? And that, while it wasn't in sterile conditions, it was in worlds they purposefully chose to make sure they wouldn't get in over their heads?

And that despite all of their successes, triumphs, and pride... they're STILL just one world in a universe--much less galaxy!--that would snuff them out in a heartbeat. That all this preparation is just weapons-testing so they can a galaxy-wide dominion of beings that eat stars (and souls) for snacks. Basically, that they're going out to test their weapons and blood their soldiers... so they can just clean up the mess in their home dimension.


Seriously. Nothing like reminding everybody that "all this is just practice against the C'Tan we'll be trying to overthrow who, by the way, rule our entire fucking galaxy!" to sober everybody up and knock off any over-the-top arrogance. Here are some bad guys that are also treating their underlings like crap; only Chaos isn't tough enough to overthrow these guys... NewChaos might also need a reminder how much it sucks when someone vastly more powerful than you decides to play with you. The whole "... so you'll stop asshole gods like me" bit from the end of Thousand Shinji. Not jut the 4 new Chaos gods, but also their underlings that may be letting their new fortunes go to their heads after their world survived 2 apocalyptic events in the span of 15 years.


EDIT:

Actually, the arrogance is an interesting point in that I am trying to break the mainline Chaos of that habit. The problem I suppose is that their leadership is really good at salvaging situations, leading to a perception on the ground of invulnerability, which can then percolate back up, at which point you get the problem of people believing their own hype.

Hmmm... I'm going to have to ruminate on this. The next chapter will show some of Ashley's perspective.

Oh yeah, speaking of a leadership that is good at pulling Xanatos Gambit and Roullettes... Maybe remind them that there was another cabal of leaders who were good enough to manipulate events, while still merely human!, to their desire... and that what happened resulted in Second Impact, and then Third Impact. Seele thought their plans were untouchable as well; look how that went... 5 billion humans dead in 15 years.

Perhaps with a reminder that Seele did possess an anologue of precognition; their scrolls of prophecy.

And that sometimes, precognition is only useful in telling you juuuust how screwed you are. Fat lot of good your precognition does you if you find out your planet is going to be hit by an asteroid in 15 minutes. (And you don't have the tech to stop it or divert it...)