Armageddon???? - Part Eighty One Up

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2008-08-21 03:55pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Fleet Admiral JD wrote:Stewart--I'd be happy to grammar-Nazi/edit the book as well if you'd like. Anything I can do to contribute, really!
Back off, you! I edit the books! *throws chair, cracks whip*

*dodges chair*

Isn't there room for more than one copy editor here? What one person might miss, another might find, yes?

Just to throw my hat in the ring -- in case it's wanted -- I used to do copy editing and typesetting for the university newspaper, back when I was a student. (Being the only science student on the staff, I was also sent to report on everything marginally connected with science, but that's another story.)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-08-21 04:45pm

Stuart wrote:Something like this perhaps? (The picture has to be public domain)/

That's cool, although as you say, we would need to use a public domain picture of Satan instead of just grabbing the first hit off Google Image, or get an artist to draw it up. But it would be pretty easy to get an artist to draw up a Satan picture that looks generally like that one, which I think sets the right tone.

There's also some question as to what the background would look like. Flat red might work, but it also might work to have a "city in flames" background with recognizably modern skyscrapers in view, perhaps hand-drawn in an oil-painting style. Just to make it punchier and show that potential reader that we're talking about an attempted demon invasion of Earth, not a clone of Doom.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-21 05:09pm

You know, Armageddon is really something. Its a collaborative book written in (and shaped by) public discourse, and debated and directed as it is being written.

Perhaps it should include an acknowledgement to 'The Internet' in the front cover

Kie99 · Post by **Kie99** » 2008-08-21 05:37pm

I don't like the font in that Cover. I think something like

THE SALVATION WAR
ARMAGEDDON

(The two lines being of equal length)

Might work better?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-08-21 08:06pm

Don't people usually read top to bottom? If the book has:

The Salvation War
ARMAGEDDON

Then people will think the title is "The Salvation War: Armageddon"

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-08-21 08:08pm

SCRawl wrote:Isn't there room for more than one copy editor here? What one person might miss, another might find, yes?

Stuart has more than one editor already if I'm not mistaken.

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 2008-08-21 09:29pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:Don't people usually read top to bottom? If the book has:

The Salvation War
ARMAGEDDON

Then people will think the title is "The Salvation War: Armageddon"

That's right. The next one will be The Salvation War: Pantheocide and the last The Salvation War: The Lords Of War

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-08-21 09:31pm

Stuart wrote:That's right. The next one will be The Salvation War: Pantheocide and the last The Salvation War: The Lords Of War

Oh, I thought that title was Armageddon: The Salvation War. I just went back and re-read your posts carefully, turns out I was putting the words in the wrong order.

EdBecerra · Post by **EdBecerra** » 2008-08-21 09:33pm

Stuart wrote:That's right. The next one will be The Salvation War: Pantheocide and the last The Salvation War: The Lords Of War

Am I understanding the last word of that first title correctly? Pantheocide = All gods killed (or dead)?

If so, sounds like major bad news coming along for Yahweh...

Ed.

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » 2008-08-21 09:44pm

Stuart wrote:That's right. The next one will be The Salvation War: Pantheocide and the last The Salvation War: The Lords Of War

You already got a third book brewing in the cauldron?!

(Is LoW an aftermath kind of thing?)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2008-08-21 10:24pm

Zor wrote:
NecronLord wrote:I think the implication is that Yahweh has a weather dominator, yes.
If that is the case, Yahweh has at his disposal what is effectively a massively devistating superweapon. Envision New York, London, Tokyo, St Peter'sburg and other such coastal Cities being hit by Hurricane after Hurricane or Rainfall over the world's breadbaskets being halted.

Zor

Possible but they're talking about diverting it, not creating it out of whole cloth. That's a vastly different thing and would be far less complicated to manage.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-08-21 10:55pm

EdBecerra wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:Unless angels (and presumably whatever type of being Yahweh happens to be) can have at least an infertile child with a human woman, how would Yahweh have a son (Jesus) without there being at least a few angelic females? The former wouldn't surprise me (that he'd be breaking his own rules), if possible.
Uhm... wasn't something mentioned about giants being the children of human women and angels?

Lemme see - I think I've got a copy of KJV on my hard drive..

Ah. Genesis, chapter 6.

6:1 When mankind1 began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born2 to them,3 6:2 the sons of God4 saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose. 6:3 So the Lord said, “My spirit will not remain in5 mankind indefinitely,6 since7 they8 are mortal.9 They10 will remain for one hundred and twenty more years.”11

6:4 The Nephilim12 were on the earth in those days (and also after this),13 when the sons of God were having sexual relations with14 the daughters of mankind, who gave birth to their children.15 They were the mighty heroes16 of old, the famous men.17
So, if there's any truth to that (in context of this story, that is), yeah, there's a severe problem behind the Divine throne.

On top of that, humanity get ripped off of its previous relatively long lives (Gen. 6-3), simply because a few angels couldn't control their sexual urges. (Or their precious bodily fluids.. now I have this image of the bombing of the portals with Slim Pickens riding one of the experimental devices down into the calderas...)

Wonder if this'll be an important plot point or not...

Ed.

Continuation of my idea about the angels not being allowed to procreate: we could be talking about some seriously, seriously sexually repressed folks here, on the levels of the Muslim men who have sex with goats, camels, sheep, or whatever else is walking around (if you saw the thread, you know what I'm talking about). The "animal" equivalent for the horny messed-up angels might very well be human women.

Darth Ruinus · Post by **Darth Ruinus** » 2008-08-21 11:10pm

Sorry, but the pics of Satan getting shot made me draw some sketches.

^ Front

^ Back

And then of course the title and description thing goes in the big blank space.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-08-21 11:18pm

Classy. I like 'em. What saith the crowd and author?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-08-21 11:46pm

Mayabird wrote:Classy. I like 'em. What saith the crowd and author?

I really like it. I wouldn't even color it or replace the silhouettes. It's effective and eye-catching. I'd clean up the figures so they're a little crisper (though I think it would work really well if they're still recognizably "sketchy"). Also, perhaps rotate the front cover horizontally so the demons are facing to the left? That way, the whole book jacket becomes a single composition. Add the title in a nice font and you're done. By comparison, the "Satan in the crosshairs" idea just seems silly. Frankly, if I saw a book with a picture of Satan in a set of crosshairs on the cover, I'd laugh and walk away.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2008-08-22 12:15am

Darth Ruinus wrote:Sorry, but the pics of Satan getting shot made me draw some sketches.

And then of course the title and description thing goes in the big blank space.

Those look good, really good.

Would you have any objection if I used those for a possible cover?

Stuart:

Do you have a back cover blurb written yet?

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2008-08-22 12:19am

I wonder - with a title like "The Salvation War: Armageddon", do you think you'll get a lot of fundie-types who will buy it, expecting an apocalyptic Christian novel, and be in for a rather interesting surprise? Obviously not if you make the back blurb explicit enough, but still . ..

Darth Ruinus · Post by **Darth Ruinus** » 2008-08-22 12:25am

Stormbringer wrote:Those look good, really good.

Would you have any objection if I used those for a possible cover?

Sure, go ahead. Hell, I'd be honored.

Ahahahahaha. Hell.

Guardsman Bass wrote:I wonder - with a title like "The Salvation War: Armageddon", do you think you'll get a lot of fundie-types who will buy it, expecting an apocalyptic Christian novel, and be in for a rather interesting surprise? Obviously not if you make the back blurb explicit enough, but still . ..

That would be soo awesome and very funny.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2008-08-22 12:38am

For the book cover, can we make it MORE epic...I mean this is a story about war on hell, at the least show us something at indicate that this ISN'T a normal fantasy story, and a CHIRSITAN fantasy story that is bound to piss chrisitan off.

Perhaps we design cover can be influenced by other christian novels? The only difference is, we are adding in pics that shows us that modern day military is attacking heaven.

Perhaps a drawing of the invasion of hell, something like those pictures of D-Day, where the allies is unloading tons of men and supply.

And some demons fleeing from their life.

For the synopsis, can we be less clear? Write something that will ensure those chrisitan fundie will read the ENTIRE book? As compared to putting down the book?

At the least until they read the chapter about Jesus?

Example, Satan has enlarged his domain into earth, and declared war on humanity. Humanity however, is not going down with a fight.

This way, chrisitan fundie may think that this book is about humanity AND god helping each other and attacking hell.

EdBecerra · Post by **EdBecerra** » 2008-08-22 12:59am

Darth Ruinus wrote:Sorry, but the pics of Satan getting shot made me draw some sketches.

And then of course the title and description thing goes in the big blank space.

Well, damn, that's some excellent artwork.

I'm envious - the way you can make a few lines evoke an F-111? Impressive!

Ed.

EdBecerra · Post by **EdBecerra** » 2008-08-22 01:18am

Mayabird wrote:Continuation of my idea about the angels not being allowed to procreate: we could be talking about some seriously, seriously sexually repressed folks here, on the levels of the Muslim men who have sex with goats, camels, sheep, or whatever else is walking around (if you saw the thread, you know what I'm talking about). The "animal" equivalent for the horny messed-up angels might very well be human women.

Huh. Hadn't thought about it that way, and shame on me for missing the obvious.

Heh. I wonder if that means someone in Heaven's indulging in a little smuggling of porno from Earth to Heaven. We've already seen Michael-lan admitting that he's doing a little import business for himself and for Yeshua. (The thought of Peter, stoned out of his mind on LSD? Priceless!) Wonder how they'd play a videotape or a DVD of hardcore stuff up there - does Heaven even HAVE electricity? Or can they just "magic" it up?

The forces of sexual repression at work in Heaven? A possible fifth column? Fascinating.

I've known a number of Muslims in my day, and more than a few who tried to sidestep their religious prohibitions by lawyering their way through various loopholes. (one example, an elderly Muslim I knew who drank plum brandy, and excused it away by saying that only fermented grain or grapes were forbidden - the Koran didn't SPECIFICALLY ban fermented plums by name. You get the idea.)

Of course, the same is true of other religions, it just doesn't appear as high profile, with the exception of RC priests abusing their clerical rank by abusing children.

Hmm.. another annoying thought intrudes. Where's Mohammed? Heaven? Hell? And would he matter?

He lived (and died) before Yahweh claimed to have closed the Gates. I wonder if he was a "legitimate" prophet whom Yahweh misled because it was entertaining, or just a garden variety con-man who created a religion because it was (as Robert Heinlein put it) "nice work if you can get it" ala L. Ron Hubbard, with Yahweh later laying claim to it and taking advantage of it.

Ed.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2008-08-22 01:39am

Posted this here and in the thread started in AMP. Just a quick design but I really like the sketches and think this works for an attention grabbing cover.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/st ... nCover.jpg

Here's my stab at the cover design. Not entirely happy with the font but I'm thinking this works best with a minimalist approach. If anyone has some suggestions, feel free as I appreciate the feedback.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-08-22 01:46am

I still think there should be an oil-painting look. If people prefer the "show combatants fighting on the cover" style that's fine, but there's a certain style that people associate with the religious artistry of the middle ages, and I think it would be appropriate here.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2008-08-22 01:50am

Pelranius wrote:Looks like Yahweh is an addict as well. He seems rather unfocused, or was that description referring to Michael?

Michael-lan's kick is "mundane" drugs, while Yahweh's thing... is his own hype.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2008-08-22 01:59am

Darth Wong wrote:I still think there should be an oil-painting look. If people prefer the "show combatants fighting on the cover" style that's fine, but there's a certain style that people associate with the religious artistry of the middle ages, and I think it would be appropriate here.

To each his own but part of the reason I like the sketches is they're somewhat reminiscent of the woodcut style illustrations from Paradise Lost. I think that actually works fairly well for this thematically. And they're good sketches.

Actual medieval style looks, frankly, like shit. It really looks goofy. I think what you're actually thinking is Renaissance or Romance works; those tend to be a lot better quality and more realistic. The Renaissance and Romantic art looks decent but it's actually rather difficult to find a decent piece that hasn't been published to death. And this deserves some original artwork.