The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Edward Yee]

It's extremely topical, but I'm not sure if Stuart meant that to be the in-universe counterpart of the real-life SPC Manning, or merely alluding to him.

[Sea Skimmer]

For the sake of context, why is this particularly incredible* and hilarious? I mean, almost everything he said was incredible and hilarious (or incredible and disturbing), but what was so special about that?

*In the sense of "impossible to believe, outrageously so"

The AN-94 is extremely rare rifle even in Russian, and one which could never be legally imported to the US. The Russians have never produced a semi automatic only version, and to be legal in the US the gun which need physical modifications to the operating system to make it impossible to convert back to automatic. The AN-94 has a very complicated mechanism to allow it to fire two round bursts before the user feels the recoil, so no way are you going to make those modifications without dropping a completely different system into it. But it gets even better, because even if a assault rifle is pure semi automatic, you still can't import it if it is foreign made anymore. The only way to get foreign models of rifles in the US new (except of course ones already imported before the law was changed in IIRC 1989) is if certain parts are in fact produced in the US. That sure hasn't happened with the AN-94. The rifle would also need a very slight barrel extension to be legal for US civilian use, its just under the 16in limit.

So unless this kid traveled to Russia and got special access to the Izhevsk factory firing range no means exists by which his story could be true. It is simply not a weapon that exists in the US, aside from my personal speculation that the US Army may have bought one or two for trials at some point. This is of course all information he could have very easily known if he actually ever did any research on anything at all. Even a casual gun owner in the US, which he might well be, ought to know about the import ban.

[rdfox2]

Flash-bang seems... a bit of an understatement.

Apparently, a number of Hiroshima survivors have referred to the initiation there as "pika-don," the Japanese onomotopoeia (or however that's spelled) for "flash-boom," since that's what it seemed like in their experience. So I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the early-stage survivors of this initiation might refer to it in similar terms.

They're using lumberjack grade chainsaws in Maion's surgery? Seems a bit.. imprecise, but with their regenerative powers, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Interesting tidbit--the chainsaw was actually invented for surgical amputations. While the original hand-cranked form was pretty slow and imprecise, they were still quicker than the old handsaws used before them--an important factor, given that this was in the era before anaesthesia.

Though I would halfway expect using the special ones for firefighters, since they have much tougher blades and are thus more likely to complete the cut without changing blades if angelic bone is significantly more dense than human bone. (Diamond-coated tungsten cutting teeth, created specifically to cut through the nasty things in walls, like nails and wiring jackets and such.)

[Ryan Thunder]

That most recent chapter was well done, IMHO.

[SilverHawk]

To say something on Part Seventy, shame it wasen't a B41. Now that would of made for quite a sight! (Plus the part would of been a lot longer for all us SAC fans with the B-52 Flight!)

[Edward Yee]

This Bugsy sounds like a guy who shouldn't be around firearms in the first place... and the only civilian I know of who's even been around the AN-94 is Max R. Popenker, of World Guns.

[Jusu]

Hmm, I dunno if it's important, but the 'leak' mentioned was from that guy, Bradley Manning. If so, interesting, I wasn't expecting that.

Well... I'm dubious of this one. There's a huge difference between the Iraq War and the Salvation War, culturally. The Iraq War is a somewhat questionable proposition as far as strategy goes; sane people can ask whether we should be fighting it. Sane people can't ask the same about the Salvation War.

I think we'd be seeing a lot less antiwar sentiment in the Salvation War, which in turn would make the position of something like Wikileaks weaker, and the odds of someone leaking footage they consider damning lower. No one's going to care about gun camera footage of an attack helicopter shooting up a bunch of demons, except maybe to cheer. People do care about gun camera footage of a bunch of reporters getting shot, and there's a much greater chance of it being viewed as a crime that needs to be reported and addressed... and leaked to the public if it isn't addressed.

Good chapter, although I did feel that the small confrontation between angel and daemon was too quick, I hope more like it gets written.

In context it was exactly the right length: long enough for someone to step in and squash it because they haven't got time right now.

1. Yeah, i would guess so, so I'm a little confused about the leak. But I guess a new chapter can clarify that. Maybe the leak was mentioned because nukes being used is bad enough as it is, that such news coming out would be bad for morale, eh?
2. Eh, rereading it, I can see how it seems the perfect length. I dunno, might be a sucker for those story cliche's.
3. Bugsy reminds me of people I used to do roleplays with. ~_~

[TimothyC]

Yeah, i would guess so, so I'm a little confused about the leak. But I guess a new chapter can clarify that. Maybe the leak was mentioned because nukes being used is bad enough as it is, that such news coming out would be bad for morale, eh?

The point would be the media claiming that we had committed a War Crime by using the nuke if they saw the effects, which I could definitely see happening.

[EuelB]

Angelic Treatment Ward, Bethesda Naval Hospital, Bethesda, MD

"How are you feeling Maion?" Lieutenant Grace Zachariah looked at her patient with professional concern. A concern that felt slightly ridiculous given that the size differential between them was so marked. According to the medical records, Maion-Lan-Lemuel was about 20 feet tall standing up. Fortunately, she wasn't doing that right now. She was laying while Lemuel was sitting cross-legged on the ground beside her. The other thing that made concern seem unnecessary was Maion's beauty. Now the bruising had faded from her face and body, she was radiant.

Sweet Jessie Ventura! Six meters! Gives me yet another idea for a Poser render, but, yow-za! Of course, once the Angels become media savvy, they'll be able to cater to both the gigantaphile and the wing fetish crowd. (If they want to.) I'll bet honest money that Hugh Hefner would give major green to the first she Angel to get naked in front of a camera. Rule 34, look it up. (On second thought, don't. I don't want to be responsible for anyone screaming "My childhood has been violated!".)

"As you have against us never-born. Your arrogance wearies me as it has done for centuries." Memnon was equally belligerent and Zinder got the same sort of feeling he did when dealing with his children squabbling over who had the largest apple.

Humanity more mature that either Angels or Daemons? Who would of thought?

Suddenly the voice he had first heard in the deserts of Iraq whispered in his ear. That is enough. They need know no more. The end of your story is still far away. With those words in his mind, Memnon fell silent.

The plot thickens...

It was too late, his legs were no longer strong enough to support him and he collapsed again. By the time some humans tried to help him, he was dead.

You know, I feel sorry for the poor bastard. That's not the death I would wish on an animal. Some humans, on the other hand...

Abigor closed the discussion site down, wondering briefly if humans really thought they could destroy stars, and went back to the news pages.

Would this be an in-joke or a shout out?

He opened up the Hell section, and wondered, equally briefly, why it was that he got all the best information on what was happening in his own country from a computer website based on Earth.

He shouldn't. There was mention of a local news story (Spokane, Washington State, U.S.A.) from a site in China...

Yahweh had sent a force to attack the humans as they invaded Heaven. The humans had destroyed it, totally. That was no surprise, Abigor would have been more surprised if they hadn't.

The Daemon knows his humans...

He had gained the distinct impression that humans were very reluctant to use those weapons but they had dropped one on Yahweh's force with almost no hesitation.

One could say that this was a cold, tactical choice. Then again, the Daemons were just trying to kill us all. Ya-ya's been screwing humanity over for 2000 years...

[GenghisQuan]

Yeah, i would guess so, so I'm a little confused about the leak. But I guess a new chapter can clarify that. Maybe the leak was mentioned because nukes being used is bad enough as it is, that such news coming out would be bad for morale, eh?

The point would be the media claiming that we had committed a War Crime by using the nuke if they saw the effects, which I could definitely see happening.

Wait...it's a war crime to use a WMD on a military target?

[Night_stalker]

Yeah, i would guess so, so I'm a little confused about the leak. But I guess a new chapter can clarify that. Maybe the leak was mentioned because nukes being used is bad enough as it is, that such news coming out would be bad for morale, eh?

The point would be the media claiming that we had committed a War Crime by using the nuke if they saw the effects, which I could definitely see happening.

Hey, I doubt anyone would really complain. Uriel's actions kinda removed a lot of sympathy for Angels, and when news of how humans were treated in Heaven reaches the public...

[Ritterin Sophia]

-snip-

I always entertained the notion that he was a liar, but the point where I knew he was just talking out of his ass was when he said his friend had an M4 that had a limiter installed. Then he said he didn't really know where his friend had gotten, meaning he probably didn't realize that a lot of the newer AR15 variants have retractable stocks or kits to attach a retractable stock. He just assumed it was an actual M4.

[Jeremy]

I'm kind of surprised Cesar and Abigor weren't invited to watch.

[Simon_Jester]

The point would be the media claiming that we had committed a War Crime by using the nuke if they saw the effects, which I could definitely see happening.

In this cultural climate? I mean, the war started with something like a quarter of humanity lying down and dying, for Christ's sake!* Then you had monsters popping up, an army of demons marching all over the place, people being dragged out of Hell...

This isn't the Iraq War, guys. The majority of public opinion is going to be on board with this, and will accept the need to use extremely nasty weapons to take down the power behind threats like Uriel, the rock attacks on Manhattan, and the Scarlet Beast's trashing of Jerusalem. So no, I don't see any but the fringiest of fringe media being outraged at the use of nuclear weapons. And the fringe isn't going to have much leverage here.

*OK, technically, only a small fraction of them were dying for Christ's sake specifically. But still.

[Saint_007]

You're also forgetting the part where Yah-yah left humanity to rot in Hell (and they would have if they didn't decide to resist) and where he ordered the Bowls of Wrath - plus all those hurricanes and natural disasters he kept sending at us for the duration of Pantheonicide. One nuke - against an army, a military target, no less - is showing remarkable restraint on behalf of the humans. Had the humans been as bloodthirsty as they were in WW2, we'd be seeing the Heavenly City glow.

[Sea Skimmer]

Even if people think it was basically justified, you're still going to see a lot of patriotic stomachs turn at the actual high definition sight of people dieing a slow miserable death of radiation like that. The question would and will immediately be asked if it was really necessary to kill that many humans. We wouldn't be human if that didn't happen.

[Saint_007]

Excellent point there, Sea Skimmer. For some reason I remembered the Angels and Demons, and how they rationalized affairs. They would do stuff that makes anyone's skin crawl, but they'd do it unflinchingly and without so much as a pang of conscience. They did it simply because they thought they were above it. It's when they realized they bleed out and die like any mortal that they're stopping to think about what they did wrong. Karma's a bitch.

Humans, at least when thinking rationally, don't. It's when we let ourselves be blinded by authority and our own petty desires that we do the really nasty stuff. Nukes, by contrast, are the ultimate eye-openers; friends don't let friends use nukes casually.

It also doesn't help the "it's payback" argument that the results of nuclear weapons are literally abominations. Even if they understood fully how a nuke works and how it kills, only the most emotionally detached or utterly sociopathic wouldn't cringe at their effects.

[SilverHawk]

The effects described aren't really sobering to me because of my upbringing. It was a daily fact of life growing up on the effects of nuclear weapons. I'm just more pleased that a nuclear weapon was used in fiction that wasen't horribly impotent in it's effects on the intended target.

If nuclear weapons didn't have their radiological effects, they would of been used in bulk by now by the US and CIS.

So no, in order for a nuclear detonation to be an "eye-opener" one's eyes must first be closed to the reality of their effects.

[Saint_007]

They're an eye opener in the sense that no major power wants to do a war of total attrition or annihilation anymore. Similarly, they're a good cause for everybody to just sit back and think clearly before jumping into anything stupid (and trust me, people can be pretty stupid). Not that it hasn't prevented people from going to conventional warfare since WW2 and killing thousands of people, but they're doing it slower and they're doing it in an era where genocide is detested.

[SilverHawk]

Refresher Courses are sometimes needed in basic humanity. I think nuclear weapons act more as a gut check in this instance since only one side has them and is deploying them in a measured fashion. Becoming the monster you detest is of higher risk here then self-annihilation.

[CaptainChewbacca]

It would be easier to download and edit the HTML. Maybe something like this? Pardon the bad jokes in some fields, but it was faster to search and replace than cleanly delete.

That's seriously awesome, you get a gold star for making the President of Hell a jedi knight.

[Edward Yee]

1. Yeah, i would guess so, so I'm a little confused about the leak. But I guess a new chapter can clarify that. Maybe the leak was mentioned because nukes being used is bad enough as it is, that such news coming out would be bad for morale, eh?

There isn't a need for a new chapter to clarify the security leak bit, I think. As for the nuclear weapon in this case, it's not that Petraeus ordered the nuclear initiation... it's the reason why he was granted the authority to do so that would be... politically inconvenient.

3. Bugsy reminds me of people I used to do roleplays with. ~_~

... how so?

[JBG]

The point would be the media claiming that we had committed a War Crime by using the nuke if they saw the effects, which I could definitely see happening.

In this cultural climate? I mean, the war started with something like a quarter of humanity lying down and dying, for Christ's sake!* Then you had monsters popping up, an army of demons marching all over the place, people being dragged out of Hell...

This isn't the Iraq War, guys. The majority of public opinion is going to be on board with this, and will accept the need to use extremely nasty weapons to take down the power behind threats like Uriel, the rock attacks on Manhattan, and the Scarlet Beast's trashing of Jerusalem. So no, I don't see any but the fringiest of fringe media being outraged at the use of nuclear weapons. And the fringe isn't going to have much leverage here.

*OK, technically, only a small fraction of them were dying for Christ's sake specifically. But still.

You should perhaps also consider the daemon attack in the mall in Armageddon and the response of one MSM outlet to that.

[Ilya Muromets]

The point would be the media claiming that we had committed a War Crime by using the nuke if they saw the effects, which I could definitely see happening.

In this cultural climate? I mean, the war started with something like a quarter of humanity lying down and dying, for Christ's sake!* Then you had monsters popping up, an army of demons marching all over the place, people being dragged out of Hell...

This isn't the Iraq War, guys. The majority of public opinion is going to be on board with this, and will accept the need to use extremely nasty weapons to take down the power behind threats like Uriel, the rock attacks on Manhattan, and the Scarlet Beast's trashing of Jerusalem. So no, I don't see any but the fringiest of fringe media being outraged at the use of nuclear weapons. And the fringe isn't going to have much leverage here.

*OK, technically, only a small fraction of them were dying for Christ's sake specifically. But still.

Building on that: Even if, somehow, the instinctive horror a lot of laypeople have when anything with the term "nuclear" is used somehow turns into a massive public outcry, one shouldn't forget that Yahweh used what are tantamount to WMDs first. Michael, on Yah Yah's behest, has initiateded portal-induced climate manipulation to cause highly damaging weather, including hurricanes. Then there were all the Bowls of Wrath, many of those figuratively poured down on civilian targets. Toss in those attacks by Yahweh's "pets" on top of that. Let us also not forget all of the people mind-killed by Uriel when he was up and running. Finally, there's Heavenly influence which made an Israeli sub launch nukes on human cities.

A lot of people have died and a lot of cities seriously damaged by those attacks. Nuclear retaliation is more than justified.

EDIT: Also consider that said nuke was used on a military target, while a lot of Heaven's attacks ended up hitting population centers.

EDIT, Episode 2: Corrected some typos and some rewording to make the whole thing less clunky.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Exactly. In the US alone, we've had hurricanes, massive dust storms, an angellic assault on Los Angeles which killed thousands, and an avalanche fall on New York. And this is AFTER the greater Detroit metro area was destroyed by lava. I think we hit our limit looooooooooong ago. Honestly, its a credit to our leaders that we haven't wiped out the Eternal City. I have to imagine the 'Sons of Detroit' political organization gathered a lot of financial and political clout after the sky volcano, and I imagine 'NEVER AGAIN' is a pretty good rallying cry.