The Open Door (megacrossover)

[Academia Nut]

Yeah, if they go to Star Wars it will be almost completely covert ops and there would be no direct military engagement of any kind. They would get their asses kicked so hard it wouldn't be funny (well... it would be, but that's beside the point). Also, since they can control when they would enter the picture, they would be best served by inserting at a point of galactic weakness. Imagine an agent of Reigle working on the Krytos Plague or Agent Red (?) during the civil war or the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, respectively. Nasty stuff. They could also do things like use the fact that they have fairly reliable point to point teleport capacity to pull off some smash and grab operations (like recovering fugitive Jedi during the purge) that would be outside of normal SW tactical considerations. Still, it would be a massive challenge, and I'm not sure they're up to it yet.

[Robo Jesus]

Yeah, if they go to Star Wars it will be almost completely covert ops and there would be no direct military engagement of any kind. They would get their asses kicked so hard it wouldn't be funny (well... it would be, but that's beside the point). Also, since they can control when they would enter the picture, they would be best served by inserting at a point of galactic weakness. Imagine an agent of Reigle working on the Krytos Plague or Agent Red (?) during the civil war or the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, respectively. Nasty stuff. They could also do things like use the fact that they have fairly reliable point to point teleport capacity to pull off some smash and grab operations (like recovering fugitive Jedi during the purge) that would be outside of normal SW tactical considerations. Still, it would be a massive challenge, and I'm not sure they're up to it yet.

The ability for the IoM to carry out Exterminatus would suggest that they aren't as far behind Star Wars as many believe. They're definitely behind Star Wars in terms of FTL movement (which is ridiculously fast in comparison to the Immaterium) and production capacity, but in terms of weapons they're on the lower to medium scales of what most of Star Wars can do. The greatest advantage that the new Chaos has in a conflict within the SW galaxy however is in terms of Psykic abilities. Psykers are what Jedi hope to be when they grow up.

The darkest and most powerful force adepts (Palpatine as an example) would be more on equal terms with the majority of the more powerful Psykers out there, but on Average, the Psykers so outclass the Force Sensitives that it's not funny.

Honestly, the smartest thing Chaos could do is to walk into a SW shipyard, and just buy Star Wars tech. The vast majority of it is publicly accessible (especially if you have the cash).

[holyknight]

Yeah, if they go to Star Wars it will be almost completely covert ops and there would be no direct military engagement of any kind. They would get their asses kicked so hard it wouldn't be funny (well... it would be, but that's beside the point). Also, since they can control when they would enter the picture, they would be best served by inserting at a point of galactic weakness. Imagine an agent of Reigle working on the Krytos Plague or Agent Red (?) during the civil war or the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, respectively. Nasty stuff. They could also do things like use the fact that they have fairly reliable point to point teleport capacity to pull off some smash and grab operations (like recovering fugitive Jedi during the purge) that would be outside of normal SW tactical considerations. Still, it would be a massive challenge, and I'm not sure they're up to it yet.

Very valid. On this case...the best option would be the silent subversion and infiltration of several Worlds....a plan to very long scale, at least extending over half a century........recovering fugitive Jedi, or better yet, Jedi Younglings what weren't slaughtered on the rampage of Vader......making them go into the Unknown regions...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/jpa117/notw ... _map_2.jpg
http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images/st ... iled12.jpg

On those two maps.....there are many regions that pretty much don't care or immerse on Galactic Affairs overall.....a nice haven to gather what Chaos picks from the events on Starwars....tech......Jedi.....escapees....pawns..........with no one the wise ever, while Chaos cults slowly but steadily spread all across the Galaxy.......after all, Tzintchi's and
his fellow Gods's will does works on many ways....

[Deadpan29]

The ability for the IoM to carry out Exterminatus would suggest that they aren't as far behind Star Wars as many believe. They're definitely behind Star Wars in terms of FTL movement (which is ridiculously fast in comparison to the Immaterium) and production capacity, but in terms of weapons they're on the lower to medium scales of what most of Star Wars can do. The greatest advantage that the new Chaos has in a conflict within the SW galaxy however is in terms of Psykic abilities. Psykers are what Jedi hope to be when they grow up.

The darkest and most powerful force adepts (Palpatine as an example) would be more on equal terms with the majority of the more powerful Psykers out there, but on Average, the Psykers so outclass the Force Sensitives that it's not funny.

Honestly, the smartest thing Chaos could do is to walk into a SW shipyard, and just buy Star Wars tech. The vast majority of it is publicly accessible (especially if you have the cash).

The main disadvantages for Chaos when up against SW at this point are ones of scale and numbers. As noted in a expository discussion a few chapters back, Chaos only has one planet that is still recovering from a set of disasters that killed off about 5/6 of the population.

I'm of the opinion that just based on what you see on screen, the tech-level arguments between StarWars and Star Trek can be made to go either way, depending on which way you want them to go. However, SW has a society that takes up the entire galaxy, FTL that lets them get from one end of that galaxy to the other in a reasonable amount of time, and engineering projects big enough to have noticeable gravity wells. Anybody who doesn't operate on a similar scale and isn't up in the "sufficiently advanced" technology range would be likely to lose against the Empire or the Republic due to shear numbers.

[Robo Jesus]

The ability for the IoM to carry out Exterminatus would suggest that they aren't as far behind Star Wars as many believe. They're definitely behind Star Wars in terms of FTL movement (which is ridiculously fast in comparison to the Immaterium) and production capacity, but in terms of weapons they're on the lower to medium scales of what most of Star Wars can do. The greatest advantage that the new Chaos has in a conflict within the SW galaxy however is in terms of Psykic abilities. Psykers are what Jedi hope to be when they grow up.

The darkest and most powerful force adepts (Palpatine as an example) would be more on equal terms with the majority of the more powerful Psykers out there, but on Average, the Psykers so outclass the Force Sensitives that it's not funny.

Honestly, the smartest thing Chaos could do is to walk into a SW shipyard, and just buy Star Wars tech. The vast majority of it is publicly accessible (especially if you have the cash).

The main disadvantages for Chaos when up against SW at this point are ones of scale and numbers. As noted in a expository discussion a few chapters back, Chaos only has one planet that is still recovering from a set of disasters that killed off about 5/6 of the population.

I'm of the opinion that just based on what you see on screen, the tech-level arguments between StarWars and Star Trek can be made to go either way, depending on which way you want them to go. However, SW has a society that takes up the entire galaxy, FTL that lets them get from one end of that galaxy to the other in a reasonable amount of time, and engineering projects big enough to have noticeable gravity wells. Anybody who doesn't operate on a similar scale and isn't up in the "sufficiently advanced" technology range would be likely to lose against the Empire or the Republic due to shear numbers.

Actually, in regards to Trek, it's accepted fact, well beyond just these boards, that Trek is always fucked when going up against Wars if it's a story based off of series canon.

But yeah, the SW galaxy would win in most conventional fights against the Warhammer40K galaxy due to their speed of FTL travel alone (a couple days at most to cross the galaxy), and their sheer production and capacity numbers. However, one really powerful Psyker could fuck over the whole SW galaxy just by frying the mind of Palpatine and/or using him like a puppet. Unconventional directions and tactics is where Warhammer40K has a lot of advantages they could apply. They don't need to be confrontational whatsoever, nor do they need to steal tech. All they need to do is make themselves economically profitable to the Star Wars galaxy and they're set for life.

Hell, Chaos could just buy what they need from this universe and move onwards if they need to.

The bigger situation here though is, the Chaos Gods are spreading themselves and their philosophy across as many universes as possible just in case. If Chaos decides to make a home/base in the SW Galaxy, they need to be using their Psykers to secure things. Not their ships, not their tech, just their own brand of Psychics/Telekinetics/Daemons. That is where the SW galaxy cannot truly handle them. That's where they need to be playing their games.

[Academia Nut]

Okay, one quick chapter to tie up loose ends for the moment and then let things stew, and then I will write the stuff I want to write knowing everything else has been safely put on the backburner.

Chapter Thirty-three: Consolidation

“The Ori have been too quiet since the battle of the supergate,” Mitchell noted sombrely while looking over reports in the commissary as he idly ate his breakfast.

“Our agents report that they are attempting to downplay the magnitude of their losses. Many Priors who were active in this galaxy were aboard the destroyed ships and their disappearance has produced much fear and uncertainty amongst their converted populations. They are thus attempting consolidation of their assets before continuing expansion,” Teal’c noted as he sat down with his own tray opposite Mitchell.

Picking at his scrambled eggs, Daniel said, “There’s also the fact that by all accounts they lost the majority of their native army in the battle and are probably having problems back home.”

“Indeed,” Teal’c agreed.

“What I don’t get is why they haven’t just used their Death Star to take out all majority points of resistance yet,” Mitchell asked while flipping through the report.

“In size and effect the Ori super weapon is closer to an Eclipse-class dreadnought than a Death Star,” Teal’c pointed out helpfully.

Mitchell blinked a few times before Daniel said, “Teal’c enjoys the expanded universe as well as the films.”

“Sometimes. Recent works I have found sub-standard,” Teal’c admitted.

“Moving on…” Mitchell noted.

Shrugging, Carter said, “Long range scanning by the Asgard indicate that the Ori super weapon is currently in close orbit about the black hole they created, in all likelihood refuelling. It probably only has one or two shots for its main gun at full power. It would also explain why they haven’t ventured out with their other ships yet. That close to a gravity-well their ship would be extremely vulnerable to bombardment, and the loss of it would be a massive blow.”

“So it’s just a matter of time before they get their act together and begin again,” Mitchell said pessimistically.

“Then we had better use what time we have to prepare for them,” Daniel pointed out.

“Indeed. Perhaps that mysterious ship will return and we can learn who they are,” Teal’c suggested.

Glancing down at the plans she had been asked to review from the treaties being discussed elsewhere on the base, Carter said, “If we’re lucky we’ll have a few surprises they won’t be expecting.”

The plans laid out before Carter were for making a factory to produce something called ceramite.


The Tok’ra had felt bad about betraying the trust of their allies by hacking into the Tau’ri database, but with the stakes they were running, stepping on a few toes was better than letting multiple galaxies fall into ruin and the deaths of billions. They would apologize later.

“I must admit a degree of distaste at your plan Anise,” Vel’nak, a Tok’ra in need of a new host and loyal to the new path Anise had set for the Tok’ra.

“I would be lying if I disagreed with you, but this will be a necessary evil,” Anise replied as the equipment was prepared. “Also, how is your host, Taros?”

“Fading. I am having a degree of difficulty maintaining bodily functions at this point,” Vel’nak admitted sadly. He had been blended with Taros for almost three hundred years and unfortunately the man had developed a neurodegenerative disorder that Vel’nak had been helpless to stop. For the past three years Vel’nak could only sit by as Taros’ mind disappeared, one of the most horrible experiences a Tok’ra could have.

“To what is left of him, let him know that the end is almost here,” Anise said warmly as the next host for Vel’nak was wheeled in.

Vel’nak sighed and said, “This feels too much like what the Goa’uld would do.”

“I know,” Anise replied. “But it is a far better thing that we do it than they.”

“Agreed,” Vel’nak said before his aged body was leaned forward by attendants towards the confused and struggling subject. He added on as an aside, “If this doesn’t work, let it be known that I regret nothing and I can die happy knowing that the Goa’uld were toppled in my lifetime.”

Taros’ eyes then closed for the last time, the host body rapidly dying as the symbiote left it. The worm-like symbiote shot out of the mouth and into the forced open one of the restrained test subject. There were a few moments of thrashing and struggling until the eyes flashed. The mouth clamps were removed and Vel’nak said in a weirdly modulated tone, “Strange… the neural architecture is somewhat different, but it is possible to dominate the subject. Ugh… I never thought I would speak those words.”

Anise then took a few minutes to run some checks with safe words and such to make sure that it really was Vel’nak before removing all of the restraints except for the wrist and ankle cuffs.

Having figured out the body a little better, Vel’nak said in a mostly normal tone, “While I understand the necessity of these, I do wish they were unnecessary.”

“In time, once we can trust that you are in full control, we will remove them. For now however, we must ask how you feel,” Anise replied.

“Hungry, although that is to be expected. I have a handle over it, primarily because I am flooding the subject’s mind with endorphins relating to the pleasure response of feeding, severely damping the hunger instinct. I think I may be able to win him over to our point of view with time. Obviously if we starve to death we might find that a hard time,” Vel’nak stated.

“What about the immune system? Is it giving you any trouble?” Anise asked as probes were hooked up now that the restraints had been removed.

“Some. It is more robust than what I am used to, but I already have it mostly suborned and I do not think it is a threat. Of course, I will come in for further check-ups,” Vel’nak replied.

“Good. Good,” Anise said before she asked, “Do you think you would be ready to try today, or should we wait?”

Vel’nak considered for a moment before replying, “The chance that this could kill me remains the same whether we do it today or tomorrow. Let me try now, before I get too comfortable in this body.”

Nodding, Anise said, “Bring in the next subject.”

Shackled and stripped bare, the captured Wraith warrior was brought into the experimental room while the cuff around Vel’nak’s right hand was remotely released. Flexing it out a few times as the warrior was shoved into close range, Vel’nak said, “Well, this is going to be interesting.”

Striking forward, Vel’nak, the first ever Tok’ra with a Wraith host body, began to feed.

In the shadows, a Black Pharaoh of Tzintchi, whimsically named Epimetheus in contrast to his ‘brother’ in the Milky Way, watched on and observed while he simultaneously looked over the design specs for the Kull Warrior armour. So far the only change was that the palm of the right hand had been left exposed.

More were to come though.


The crew of the Eventide watched sadly as their sensors detected the storm close in about the universe where they had been forced to retreat. The storm was a massive, surging dimensional dislocation that had swallowed up the only path to rescuing Vita.

They had a window to run through, a chance to try and get their friend and family member back, but a red eyed Hayate had decided that they couldn’t take the risk. Their first and only engagement in Wild Space had nearly killed them all. They needed back up.

They also needed to get their stories straight.

“I left her to those monsters,” Nanoha kept muttering angrily when it looked like no one was listening. Everyone had heard her say it already. Everyone knew it wasn’t her fault. Hayate had given her a direct order to retreat even after she had heard of Vita’s status.

Fate on the other hand was having a hard time just accepting that her sister was alive, and her mother had somehow been transformed into the AI for an Intelligent Device, let alone the fact that her sister had been transformed into some sort of soul eating monster willing to slaughter people at the slightest insult.

Then there were the conflicting reports between what Nanoha had experienced and what had happened in space. Nanoha was insisting that the defenders of the planet were the evil ones, while Hayate knew that the people attacking the planet had been the aggressive ones while the defenders in space had actively helped the Eventide.

Quite simply put, they had stumbled into a nasty political situation and despite their best efforts to remain neutral they had ended up picking a side… only it looked like they had somehow managed to piss off at least two of them. Out of self defence.

They needed to contact the TSAB and request assistance. They needed more firepower, which meant more ships, and they needed politicians to smooth over the disaster.

They also needed psychiatrists as the fact that Vita was missing was putting an incredible strain upon the morale of the crew.

Hayate asked Yuuno, “How long will the storm last?”

Frowning, the young scholar replied, “From our perspective? Weeks to months. From theirs? It could be anything. The time could pass in the blink of an eye and we can return almost immediately. Or… well, absolute worst case scenario, the universe could be cold and dead by the time we get back there. That’s not likely, but there is a remote possibility of that much time distortion.”

“So Vita could be trapped there for years?” Hayate asked, her guts twisting up over the fate of the girl she had long ago come to see as her sister.

“Quite possibly,” Yuuno answered sadly. He then sighed and said, “Also, we know that Chaotic Space is open and that Alicia and Precia were both oddly affected. If they came from Chaotic Space they very well could have returned there with Vita… in which case I have no idea what will happen.”

“We’ll get her back,” Hayate resolved.


Captain Picard stared down dumbly at the proposals he had written. After Q had returned him to the Enterprise, waiting anxiously outside the Damocles Nebula for word from their captain or those who had taken him, Picard had led the Federation in doing a more thorough dig of the Chaos base around Syracuse. Very little technology had been left behind, but the cultural insights were incredible when viewed through the lens of what Q had led Picard to understand.

Picard now knew that if the Federation were to survive, it had to change to meet this threat and all of the others opened up by the destruction the Stiletto had caused. Unfortunately, Picard was not the only one to raise his voice that things must change.

So now he sat here in San Francisco, data pad in hand, waiting for his turn to speak before the Federation Council to tell them what he thought had to be done to ensure the continued survival and prosperity of the Federation.

Already the proposals had been made by others to increase the budget to Starfleet, to militarize, and even to begin removing freedoms in the interests of security. All of the standard arguments made to frightened masses of people in times of crisis, all of the paths that led wounded democracies into the dark realms of dictatorships. All of the things that Picard had once thought impossible in the Federation, but now he realized were far closer to reaching fruition than he had realized.

Someone said something to him, and Picard remotely realized that he was being told it was time to make his speech.

Picard stepped out into the chamber, surrounded by representatives from all hundred fifty member worlds. Walking slowly forward, he took centre stage and waited to be formally acknowledged before beginning. Clearing his throat, Picard said, “Greetings representatives of the Federation. I come to you today bearing… ill news. For the past four months I have been studying the ruins of the base called New Syracuse, abandoned by the group called Chaos after it was heavily damaged in a Borg attack. An attack I myself was involved in, my room partially collapsing and leaving me trapped for two days before I managed to dig my way out. But I do not come before you to tell you what happened to me, I come before you to tell you what I have learned, and how we can use it to stop these beings of Chaos should they return.”

There was some sagacious nodding amongst the various members, before Picard said, “My colleagues before me have come before you asking that we devote more resources to military spending, and while we need ships to protect us from those already here that threaten us, I am afraid that it won’t be enough to stop Chaos when they return.”

Now there were murmurs of dissent within the crowd. This was not what they wanted to hear.

Holding up a hand, Picard said, “Military might alone cannot stop them. Their leaders are their gods, and this works for them because their gods talk back to them. The leaders of Chaos are transcendent beings with the knowledge of the universe. Their technology is thousands of years beyond our own, and the ship that left behind a debris cloud of hundreds of destroyed Borg cubes was listed as a frigate in their registers. We cannot stop them with military might alone. We cannot stop them with military might at all. The Briar Patch, containing the fortified forward base for the Borg in the Alpha Quadrant no longer exists. Representatives, the Borg nearly destroyed the entire Federation a decade ago with a single cube. A single ship of Chaos did to the Borg what the Borg did to us ten times over, a hundred times over. No number of ships, no amount of technology can stop them. These are simple facts, things that anyone can see with their eyes, not the ravings of a madman.”

“Then how can we stop them?” Someone shouted out.

“We can’t,” Picard stated before he said, “All we can do is convince them that we are not worth it. From examinations of their culture, all they respect is strength. We cannot hope to match them in military strength or scientific strength, so we must best them elsewhere. We must best them in cultural strength. We must show them that we are better people than them, that to destroy us would be to make the universe a darker place. They are violent and savage, but they have tales of great respect and reverence towards those who have the courage to take the high path when surrounded by factors that would lead them down darker ways. They feel that if selling your nobility does not lead you to power almighty, it is not worth it. But right now, they do not view us as morally superior to them.”

There was rumbling of discontent. Already there would be those who would see him as a defeatist and a coward, willing to sell out the Federation for a chance at continued survival. Picard would weather the slings and barbs though to protect all the peoples of the Federation from the dangers within and without.

“What do they view as nobility? Surprisingly, the same things we do, for their tales tell a time when they were more like us in the past. Justice, freedom, compassion, and tolerance; these are not alien concepts to them. What makes them alien to us is that that they view such things equally with rage, anarchy, lust, and despair. They are intensely emotional beings, but their emotion grants them strengths that we cannot imagine. In the Federation, we have all, from humans to Vulcans to Andorians and all the other species in between, walled off our emotions in deference to the cold logic of living together. Chaos hates that. So long as we live like that, they will see us as weak, a target, and so long as we are a target, we cannot win against them.”

The crowd was growing agitated, the Vulcans especially, although of course unless you knew them they would seem the least upset by Picard’s words.

“Like the Klingons, they value honour and glory… but that would involve challenging them to a fight, something that I have already said that we cannot win. Like the Romulans, they enjoy twisted plots and conspiracies… but they have plans that span millions of years, so we cannot hope to compete in that arena. There is only one place where we can make them respect us: the guardian. The guardian of the weak, who uses whatever strength is available to draw a line in the sand, no matter how hopeless the situation. This is what started the war. They saw us, with all our technology and science, sitting aside while an entire planet with Bronze Age people died, and they grew enraged. The only way to cool that anger, to turn their greedy eyes away from us, is to become the one thing they will respect us for: the guardian of the galaxy,” Picard entreated to the crowd.

Someone cried out, “But that would violate the Prime Directive!”

Now was time to say the words he had been dreading. Picard nodded and said, “I know. But I believe that the Prime Directive was founded on yet more fundamental values, values that stated that you cannot simply tell a person how to live, that people must be free to make their own choices, make their own mistakes, and to learn. But if we wish to continue to hold those values of freedom and justice we must not be gobbled up by these monsters. If we wish to survive, we must restructure how we deal with others, we must remember that the Federation was founded on the dream of peace and prosperity for all. As it stands now, the Prime Directive excludes billions from this peace and prosperity. If we wish to survive, we must change how we view the intent of the Prime Directive, to the point that it may be necessary to scrap it all together.”

The council chambers exploded into shouting.

EDIT1: Changed around the Picard scene upon the suggestion that it didn't make sense. Let's see how many iterations this goes through...

[Darth Yoshi]

Take that, smarmy self-righteous bastards!

I don't get what possessing Wraith has to do with the serum that Anise and Freya were cooking up.

[LadyTevar]

Excellent chapter

[Academia Nut]

I don't get what possessing Wraith has to do with the serum that Anise and Freya were cooking up.

If they can figure out whether or not Wraith are compatible as hosts and can work out the whole feeding problem, then the Wraith would make superior hosts, no? And the Tok'ra are expecting a population boom over the next few decades...

Also, a Wraith enhanced by a Goa'uld or Tok'ra symbiote + Kull warrior armour is probably the scariest thing that can be cooked up in the SG-1 universe natively. It would be one of those things that just wouldn't die.

[Xon]

Slap a Ancient Personal Shield and a Sodan phase-shift as equipment and you get some damn scary.

[von Neufeld]

Quite good wrap-up except for one thing. The Anise part is a big let-down.

Take a look at what happened the last time we saw her:

Only once it was within their system did they realize that they had just made a huge mistake.

High tension, ominous music is playing in the background.

I expected to see chaos mutant Anise, demonette Anise or something like that, instead of seeing her just doing research like nothing had gone wrong.

[Carter38]

And I thought Thousand Shinji was good, can't wait for more.

[Academia Nut]

Let's see here. The Tok'ra admit to having stolen something from the Tau'ri databases, have access to the Pegasus Galaxy to get the Wraith, are engaging in the sort of behaviour normally associated with the Goa'uld, and have a daemon doing design work in the background.

Maybe the changes produced by the "Uh oh" moment are more subtle than outright mutation. Maybe the full effect has yet to be seen.

[holyknight]

The plans laid out before Carter were for making a factory to produce something called ceramite.

SGC forces carrying IG-Grade Ceramite armour? Nice. Now, it wouldn't be rare, given the appearing of super-human and enhanced human enemies , like flies popping from everywhere on the Galaxy, that someone on the IOA, outright suggests the exploration of a Gene-Enhanced Soldier Project, to be applied to those that have to fight enemies like the Ori or the Wraith. This isn't on any way something like a Space Marine, but for some part this kind of project had to start. Add, that the SGC already has a shitload of data from human enhancement attempts and failures........Nirrti........Anubis......Alteran DNA studies and the Alteran Gene search, what also has yielded a massive genetic bank to work............

The crew of the Eventide watched sadly as their sensors detected the storm close in about the universe where they had been forced to retreat. The storm was a massive, surging dimensional dislocation that had swallowed up the only path to rescuing Vita.

“I left her to those monsters,” Nanoha kept muttering angrily when it looked like no one was listening. Everyone had heard her say it already. Everyone knew it wasn’t her fault. Hayate had given her a direct order to retreat even after she had heard of Vita’s status.

Fate on the other hand was having a hard time just accepting that her sister was alive, and her mother had somehow been transformed into the AI for an Intelligent Device, let alone the fact that her sister had been transformed into some sort of soul eating monster willing to slaughter people at the slightest insult.

Then there were the conflicting reports between what Nanoha had experienced and what had happened in space. Nanoha was insisting that the defenders of the planet were the evil ones, while Hayate knew that the people attacking the planet had been the aggressive ones while the defenders in space had actively helped the Eventide.

“So Vita could be trapped there for years?” Hayate asked, her guts twisting up over the fate of the girl she had long ago come to see as her sister.

“Quite possibly,” Yuuno answered sadly. He then sighed and said, “Also, we know that Chaotic Space is open and that Alicia and Precia were both oddly affected. If they came from Chaotic Space they very well could have returned there with Vita… in which case I have no idea what will happen.”

“We’ll get her back,” Hayate resolved.

And the seeds of Chaos are taking roots on two of them already.
.....and i REALLY want to see Vita on the "Smoking hot" stage!!

Now was time to say the words he had been dreading. “If we wish to survive, we must restructure how we deal with others. Most importantly, as it stands now, we must scrap the Prime Directive if we wish to survive.”

The council chambers exploded into shouting.

Those two lines, have pretty much sent the entire Federation into havoc.

That Jean-Luc Picard, the staunchest and most hard-liner on respect to the preservation of the Prime Directive, has just said that the same it has to be scrapped??

He has just said "Hannibal ad portas" to the entire Alpha Quadrant.

The hardliners will go apeshit to this.
The PAAP Party will go apeshit to this.
Section 31 will go apeshit to this.
EVERYONE it's going to go apeshit to this.

It will be truly interesting to see the power struggles and new alliances on the Federation, that his last words have brought into being. And if the Federation can survive the inner struggle or not.

[Morilore]

I can't even slightly like the Star Trek part of this chapter. That's not how people behave, ever.

I mean, just to be clear, Picard's proposing that they scrap a two-hundred-year-old law which is the foundation of their entire foreign policy and an object of mindless reverence in order to get popular with an extremely powerful enemy who went around fucking with the Federation, kidnapping its citizens, and presumably killing a bunch of Starfleet officers?

I realize this entire story is shits and giggles, but this just breaks it. A stupid plot element should at least be AWESOME in order to be enjoyable.

[Academia Nut]

Well, he never said it wouldn't be replaced with something else. Ideally they would move back towards the TOS usage of the Prime Directive, the problem is that they already went from "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" to "Homeward", so obviously the wording needs a drastic rewrite such that it would be foreign to the TNG era sensibilities (read apathy). Thus while perhaps overly dramatic, Picard is trying to make a rhetorical point: he, one of the staunchest supporters of the Prime Directive, does not believe it will continue to serve them in its current form. He is saying that they need to drastically rethink how they deal with others, not that it is time to go about pillaging worlds and destroying cultures.

Perhaps it could be improved, but that was the best place to just cut it off for the cliffhanger element. To a certain extent it could be reworded to indicate that he does not want the Federation to become "popular" to Chaos, just that he wants to make it so that Chaos doesn't feel like destroying them. His point is that the only way to keep them out is culturally, not militarily, and currently Chaos sees them as a contemptible and as a target to be looted and pillaged at will.

[Singular Quartet]

I can't even slightly like the Star Trek part of this chapter. That's not how people behave, ever.

I mean, just to be clear, Picard's proposing that they scrap a two-hundred-year-old law which is the foundation of their entire foreign policy and an object of mindless reverence in order to get popular with an extremely powerful enemy who went around fucking with the Federation, kidnapping its citizens, and presumably killing a bunch of Starfleet officers?

I realize this entire story is shits and giggles, but this just breaks it. A stupid plot element should at least be AWESOME in order to be enjoyable.

It's true. It needs more "We are gnats on the windshields of their tanks" sorta feel. It needs Picard explaining just how fucking doomed the Federation is, and that, unless they make this change, the Federation will be the gnats on the windshield of a Leman Russ.

[Academia Nut]

Okay! I'll rewrite it! Sheesh!















































I'm always open to suggestions for improvement.

[consequences]

I can't even slightly like the Star Trek part of this chapter. That's not how people behave, ever.

I mean, just to be clear, Picard's proposing that they scrap a two-hundred-year-old law which is the foundation of their entire foreign policy and an object of mindless reverence in order to get popular with an extremely powerful enemy who went around fucking with the Federation, kidnapping its citizens, and presumably killing a bunch of Starfleet officers?

I realize this entire story is shits and giggles, but this just breaks it. A stupid plot element should at least be AWESOME in order to be enjoyable.

What, you think people won't compromise their principles in the slightest in the face of certain destruction? Is the Prime Directive going to do anyone any good if they get smashed and assimilated into Chaos?

[Academia Nut]

It should be noted that Picard was afraid that the Federation was about to begin abandoning values anyway, only instead of the Prime Directive they would start with the things like democracy and the rights of sapient beings, of which the Prime Directive is an extension of anyway. It's far better in his mind that they abandon the Prime Directive to come up with something stronger that will give them a chance of survival, rather than become a military dictatorship that will inevitably abandon the Prime Directive anyway and that would also ultimately doom them all.

I'll be adding in a few bits to make it more realistic (*snicker*... sorry), such as the fact that Chaos has stories of blood soaked berserker warriors stepping around people guarding small children out of respect and the fact that the lack of aid for the Syracusans was what triggered the war in the first place before he drops his bombshell.

[White Haven]

There's also the element that becoming a military dictatorship will result in two consequences: One, the Federation society will degrade heavily, and two, it won't help.

[Morilore]

What, you think people won't compromise their principles in the slightest in the face of certain destruction? Is the Prime Directive going to do anyone any good if they get smashed and assimilated into Chaos?

No, they definitely will compromise their principles. But 1) Chaos never actually demanded that they change that law to avoid being destroyed, 2) people mostly change the principles in a way that makes them feel strong and defiant, not weak and supplicating, 3) people will embark on a PR campaign before actually changing policy, since that's easier to start with, 4) Picard mentioned "moral strength" as something that Chaos might respect, and when people hear "moral strength" they think first of their own moral traditions and practices, eg. conservatism, instead of the moralistic proclamations of an enemy, and most importantly 5) the people in the Federation government will not understand the true power of the Chaos humans and how futile it is to fight them, because they have seen reports from dozens of light-years away, and the Stiletto has not (I assume) done anything extremely drastic to the Federation, like razing Vulcan or somesuch. People in conferences have a tendency to tell each other what they want to hear to an absurd degree, and almost certainly by now most of the Federation's politicians will be convinced that they can put up a fight against Chaos, technical readouts and battle reports notwithstanding. Picard's proclamation must sound like either insane defeatism or the soothsaying of an enemy spy, unless he has really good practical reasons why the Federation's interests are served by abandoning the Prime Directive in this particular context.

Ultimately, it's not the idea of the Federation scrapping the PD that bothers me, it's (to be blunt) bad writing.

[Morilore]

I'm always open to suggestions for improvement.

...now you've done it. You've got me started.

Okay, so as long as you're taking suggestions, I have an idea on how to add verisimilitude to the Chaos society and reduce the Mary Sueness of them all:

Play down the intellectual aspect, play up the brutal aspect. From my reading, you seem to be falling into one of the traps that S.M. Stirling fell into when writing the Draka: every single character seems completely conversant with and intellectually inclined to discuss the philosophical and historical context of all their society's practices. Put a bit more simply, it seems that where you could just write "WE ARE CHAOS WE RAPE THE STARS DO YOU HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THAT" you often write "we have an aggressively expansionist foreign policy and we appear monstrous, but actually we're a multifaceted well-functioning society, and that's because our philosophical paradigm is such that blah blah blah" and stuff that characters just do not need to say.

Instead, show the conflicts and paradoxes in their society. Tweak the writing so that the reader's sympathies lie with the various outsider characters instead of the Chaos protagonists themselves. Make the characters appear and portray themselves as unapologetically and indefensibly cruel, hedonistic, and psychopathic, reveling in bloodshed and debauchery and treachery and misery - and then, at some point in the plot, have them make some completely unexpected moral decision that throws everyone else for a loop because they thought they had them pegged as pure evil. As with Lars, except that the reader's sympathies were already with Lars. Show characters conflicted about their loyalties and decisions, not just in the sense that "hey this foreign policy is kind of violent and this imagery is a little disturbing" but in the sense that "holy shit I ooze cancerous pus that causes horrid pain to all who are near me what the fuck kind of person am I" or "my precious baby boy is an Asukhon beserker filled with violent rage I don't know who he is anymore." Through in one or two truly irredeemable assholes and you have a more compelling society.

...bah fuck, this is probably too involved for your popcorn story.

I hope all this doesn't come off as bashing your work, because I wouldn't be on page 12 and I certainly wouldn't put all this thought into these posts if this whole thing wasn't a very fun ride. I also should note that I skimmed the parts concerning universes I'm unfamiliar with, so maybe there's some good stuff I haven't seen. I really like the Haruhi, Nahona, Buffy, and nBSG segments in particular.

...and a part of me really wants to see Sailor Moon here.

[Deadpan29]

Ultimately, it's not the idea of the Federation scrapping the PD that bothers me, it's (to be blunt) bad writing.

We haven't seen the Federation scrapping the PD. Your first post on this said

That's not how people behave, ever.

Maybe so, but we haven't actually seen the Federation reacting in the manner you are objecting too. We have seen them talking about increasing their military and trying to trade some freedom for security, which very much is how people behave when they feel threatened, especially when they didn't see the threat coming.

All we have seen at this point is Picard making his statement as to what he sees as the very hard truth. There was an extreme reaction to this, which is to be expected as,

Picard's proclamation must sound like either insane defeatism or the soothsaying of an enemy spy, unless he has really good practical reasons why the Federation's interests are served by abandoning the Prime Directive in this particular context.

So, maybe he has, "really good practical reasons," or maybe he will be ignored or made a pariah. Maybe the Federation gets stomped when Chaos comes back to finish the Borg.

You raise a potentially legitimate concern in that dropping or rewriting the PD needs a lot of justification and probably a lot of time, as in decades of social adjustment, if it happens at all. Then again, Chaos isn't planning on coming back until they have a full fleet so they may be dealing with the Next Next Generation by then. However, you can't reasonably complain about bad writing for something that hasn't been written yet.

[White Haven]

The thing is, THIS Chaos, in this universe, isn't 'RAAARGH STARRAPE WOOO!' Chaos. They're more cultured and personable, so there are individuals who would say things like that. In fact, I recall it being mentioned that this particular brand of Chaos is terrified of actual 40k Chaos, and is doing its level best to avoid notice, because it'd be recognized as alien to it, and clobbered.