The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Edward Yee]

The lake not having a bottom is very interesting.

So far it's more likely that the bottom is simply beyond current TSW technology's capacity to detect... kinda like all the "fantasy" elements, we just hadn't had the opportunity or circumstances in which to get to them until The Message occurred in-universe.

I'm guessing that nobody HEA-side thought to have portal detection in the vicinity of the Incomparable Legion of Light while the "Glickem" was on its way...

Interesting for Lemuel's idea to get shot down so immediately... anti-climactic, but that's a running theme in TSW at times... life can be that way, more often than not.

Not sure if Ohalam should know the term "helicopters," considering his description of them, but aircraft/guns and such make sense -- and yeah, I'd be interested in more scenes from his POV.

[Simon_Jester]

The lake not having a bottom is very interesting.

So far it's more likely that the bottom is simply beyond current TSW technology's capacity to detect... kinda like all the "fantasy" elements, we just hadn't had the opportunity or circumstances in which to get to them until The Message occurred in-universe.

Well, in this case that just means "more than a mile or two deep," as CaptainChewbacca pointed out. But we can't rule out the "hole drilled clear through the bubble universe to the 'other side' of the world" hypothesis, not until we do hit bottom. In which case the lake would, strictly speaking, not have a bottom at all.

Assuming it's an artificial lake that's unimaginable, but we can't rule out a really weird natural phenomenon.

[Stuart]

One thing, for a proper Marine amphibious landing one must have LCAC's.

The LCACs will appear in due course. At the moment, the amphibs are landing people; LCACs are primarily used for vehicles and supplies. It is possible to ride the tank deck of an LCAC but I seriously don't recommend it.

[yaque]

"bottomless" lake geometry in a bubbleverse

- that reminds me of a question that's been bugging me since the invasion of hell.

What's with the caldera in Hell? What's driving it? How does "geo"logy work in a bubble-world?
It can't be plate tectonics, can it? or maybe Hell has something equivalent?
A caldera erupting for eons has a "hell" of a lot of magma feeding it.
Where's it coming from? Any geologists out there to speculate?

[GrayAnderson]

A bottomless lake that pops out the other side of the world and that is connected to a network of such lakes? Stuart, please, please, please tell us there's not going to be a Jar Jar Binks associated with this planet, too!

[Scorpio]

Hey all, I just had a thought. Has Stuart stated that the resurrection part of the resurrection machinery is part of its intended function? I was just thinking that it may only be a side effect of a universe C power generation project. One idea in physics is zero point energy, basically energy from nothing, which is a sea of particles blinking in and out of existence. What if the Minos gate is part of a project to harness this? As we live we build up energy in our bodies and for some reason it acquires an imprint of our minds. When we die our energy is boosted to the next universe up where it manifest as one of those particles I mentioned earlier. Then along comes some universe C engineer who figures out how to loop the energy into a pocket realm in our universe, hell, and tweak them so that they can absorb the radiant energy of the area while drawing energy from them for their purposes. As to why humans and not other creatures perhaps our energy is just in that sweet spot, enough to be worthwhile while being small enough to easily handle.
On an only slightly related topic what if the second deaths of humans in heaven and hell is related to the birthrates of angles and demons.
Please forgive my ramblings.

[DeRogue]

Hey all, I just had a thought. Has Stuart stated that the resurrection part of the resurrection machinery is part of its intended function? I was just thinking that it may only be a side effect of a universe C power generation project. One idea in physics is zero point energy, basically energy from nothing, which is a sea of particles blinking in and out of existence. What if the Minos gate is part of a project to harness this? As we live we build up energy in our bodies and for some reason it acquires an imprint of our minds. When we die our energy is boosted to the next universe up where it manifest as one of those particles I mentioned earlier. Then along comes some universe C engineer who figures out how to loop the energy into a pocket realm in our universe, hell, and tweak them so that they can absorb the radiant energy of the area while drawing energy from them for their purposes. As to why humans and not other creatures perhaps our energy is just in that sweet spot, enough to be worthwhile while being small enough to easily handle.
On an only slightly related topic what if the second deaths of humans in heaven and hell is related to the birthrates of angles and demons.
Please forgive my ramblings.

I personally wondered about the birthrate in Universe 1 and the death rate in Universe 2, and if there was any correlation, and if there was a reincarnation cycle set up.

[Edward Yee]

One thing, for a proper Marine amphibious landing one must have LCAC's.

The LCACs will appear in due course. At the moment, the amphibs are landing people; LCACs are primarily used for vehicles and supplies. It is possible to ride the tank deck of an LCAC but I seriously don't recommend it.

Seconded, and don't stand anywhere near the ramp.

[Cecelia5578]

I really, really hope Yahweh is truly dead, and not going to be resurrected whatsoever. Having him pop up sounds like an ending to a cheap Hollywood action movie that doesn't know when to end.

[GrayAnderson]

I really, really hope Yahweh is truly dead, and not going to be resurrected whatsoever. Having him pop up sounds like an ending to a cheap Hollywood action movie that doesn't know when to end.

My first thought was him being "undead" in the story in some sense (a rather cheap resurrection, mind you). My second thought was one of the numerous taunts that the Chaos forces throw at the Imperium in 40K.

[CaptainChewbacca]

"bottomless" lake geometry in a bubbleverse

Folks need to calm down about the lake. At the moment its only 'figuratively' bottomless. It'll take a week or two before they can ACTUALLY figure out if its bottomless. At the moment its just an awesome deepwater port in the middle of a large urban area.

- that reminds me of a question that's been bugging me since the invasion of hell.

What's with the caldera in Hell? What's driving it? How does "geo"logy work in a bubble-world?
It can't be plate tectonics, can it? or maybe Hell has something equivalent?
A caldera erupting for eons has a "hell" of a lot of magma feeding it.
Where's it coming from? Any geologists out there to speculate?

It would still be 'geology', even if its not earth there are still 'geologic' processes at work. I would guess the volcanism of hell is driven by compression and flexing. As has been established, the hellbubble is slowly collapsing. That inward pressure is going to drive a lot of energy. Also, hell is a closed system. Earth can cool via radiation, sending heat into space. Hell doesn't have that option, so it stays hotter for longer.

[Sophie]

"bottomless" lake geometry in a bubbleverse

- that reminds me of a question that's been bugging me since the invasion of hell.

What's with the caldera in Hell? What's driving it? How does "geo"logy work in a bubble-world?
It can't be plate tectonics, can it? or maybe Hell has something equivalent?
A caldera erupting for eons has a "hell" of a lot of magma feeding it.
Where's it coming from? Any geologists out there to speculate?

Geologists you say? woot! im useful!

Well, if plate tectonics doesn't apply ( which i'm unsure of to be honest) we know that Hell contains massive oil deposits, which suggests these worlds still have something akin to normal rock strata, so its a good bet that they still have radioactive elements somewhere in them. As such the heat from the decay could produce a mantle plume (this is how the Hawaiian volcanoes work, by the way) and assuming that plate tectonics don't work here, the plume would be in one place, so its certainly possible. Although it could possibly also be explained by absorbing into certain strata of the energy these bubble worlds produce that sustains second life humans, and this absorption translating it into thermal energy, which then provides your magma. of course it could be something else entirely.

Sorry if that makes no sense, i'm quite tired, i'll give it a proof read tomorrow.

[Simon_Jester]

"bottomless" lake geometry in a bubbleverse

- that reminds me of a question that's been bugging me since the invasion of hell.

What's with the caldera in Hell? What's driving it? How does "geo"logy work in a bubble-world?
It can't be plate tectonics, can it? or maybe Hell has something equivalent?
A caldera erupting for eons has a "hell" of a lot of magma feeding it.
Where's it coming from? Any geologists out there to speculate?

My idea was basically Sophie's.

The "core" of Hell (the part on the rocky side of the air/rock interface, far from the interface, if we want to be precisionists) could be riddled with radioactive isotopes, more so than on Earth, thus serving to generate more heat and drive a highly active geological cycle.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Wait, all 3 of us are geologists? I smell a USERGROUP!

[Sophie]

Wait, all 3 of us are geologists? I smell a USERGROUP!

Yay usergroups!

Also.. i get the feeling i'm going to be up all night pondering volcanism in hell.. Doing my degree specialising in Volcansim and igneous petrology. so this is kinda my thing ^^

[Ilya Muromets]

Holy fuck, the goddamn Scout Rangers? They were one of the special operations teams who sneaked into the City beforehand?

That was unexpected, but not unpleasant. Also makes me wonder what strings were pulled to get them there. I also find it ironic how Captain Villaflor was ribbing the Marines about being late when one of the biggest self-depreciating jokes in the Philippines is about "Filipino time"--we're always late!

And a lake without a clear bottom, eh? Sounds like a job for a submarine or two. Well, up to a certain depth anyway.

What I'm really looking forward to now is how Lemuel and Michael's talk is gonna go. Now that Michael and his merry men are under custody, it shouldn't be too long until he and Lemuel are reunited.

[CaptainChewbacca]

And a lake without a clear bottom, eh? Sounds like a job for a submarine or two. Well, up to a certain depth anyway.

I can't think of a better job for Alvin. Too bad I'm not in a program anymore, that'd be a sweet trip. 'JOURNEY TO THE BOTTOM OF HEAVEN'

[GrayAnderson]

And a lake without a clear bottom, eh? Sounds like a job for a submarine or two. Well, up to a certain depth anyway.

I can't think of a better job for Alvin. Too bad I'm not in a program anymore, that'd be a sweet trip. 'JOURNEY TO THE BOTTOM OF HEAVEN'

Just wondering, but how large is the lake (distance across, etc.)? I'm trying to think of RL cases of deep lakes that would be similar (Lake Tahoe leaps to mind as being over a thousand feet deep; ditto Crater Lake). Also, unless the shore drops off at 90 degrees or near to it (which I know does happen IRL...there's a case of this in the Cayman Islands by one of the smaller islands), something should show up on the scan, even if it's just a really deep slope.

[darksoul]

The lake not having a bottom is very interesting. I remember reading a description of Hell that says digging deep enough will have you going out somewhere else in Hell.
What if this lake does that? After a point, instead of going deeper, you start going up.
Yahweh's corpse might refloat eventually.

Nah, that's "the people in Australia walks with their heads" all over again. If the lake is indeed bottomless, and has therefore another open surface, there is a point where pressure, gravity and every other unknown elemental force the odd dimensions of Heaven can conjure would equate, thus leaving Yahwe's body either eternally constrained in the deep, or crushed beyond recognition. Not to mention the possibility of it being used as lunch for the Heavenly Kraken he probably kept there... All in all, He probably did best dying in the fight and not after being thrown in the lake. yeah....

And once and for all, Yahwe, Uriel and Satan were angels. there is no separate species. and Yahwe had wings, Word of Stuart.

[GrayAnderson]

The lake not having a bottom is very interesting. I remember reading a description of Hell that says digging deep enough will have you going out somewhere else in Hell.
What if this lake does that? After a point, instead of going deeper, you start going up.
Yahweh's corpse might refloat eventually.

Nah, that's "the people in Australia walks with their heads" all over again. If the lake is indeed bottomless, and has therefore another open surface, there is a point where pressure, gravity and every other unknown elemental force the odd dimensions of Heaven can conjure would equate, thus leaving Yahwe's body either eternally constrained in the deep, or crushed beyond recognition. Not to mention the possibility of it being used as lunch for the Heavenly Kraken he probably kept there... All in all, He probably did best dying in the fight and not after being thrown in the lake. yeah....

And once and for all, Yahwe, Uriel and Satan were angels. there is no separate species. and Yahwe had wings, Word of Stuart.

Could I get a link? One of the problems is that clear revelations are often only clear on later readings, not to mention that if it's in that post on being sizes, I didn't <i>quite</i> pick up on that.

[darksoul]

Ok. Not crosshairs, you're right. A fighter jet HUD would be a better choice, since that communicates "serious war."

The reason I'm thinking along these lines is that it might be easier/cheaper to get a decent picture of one big demon than of an army of them.

yep.

[darksoul]

Could I get a link? One of the problems is that clear revelations are often only clear on later readings, not to mention that if it's in that post on being sizes, I didn't <i>quite</i> pick up on that.

Somewhere in the thread (please forgive my lazyness, I`m on the worst internet connection ever, as usual) was a discussion about this, and people focused in Yahwe not having wings as evidence of him being a separate species. Stuart dissipate that doubt on the spot, although I don`t recall direct physical descriptions of Him in the text. I believe that was intentional, too.
On the other hand, Yahwe is always thought about as a ruler, not a god, by the angels themselves, which would be their view if he was another race. He wields the same powers most angels do. He is bigger because he is older and had fed on the energy of the chants for longer and deeper than any other angel. Uriel is his brother, and he is even physically like any other angel, although the "death thought" power is indeed unique, perhaps something akin of Satan smoldering little demons with his sight.
So, that`s why, in the light of all this and given that I don`t recall actual assertion of it on either side ( although it might had been earlier in this very thread) I say that Yahwe is an angel.
I could be mistaken, but I don`t think so. Anyway, there is not much left of him to do anything. A pity. We would like to "study" the corpse...

[Edward Yee]

Holy fuck, the goddamn Scout Rangers? They were one of the special operations teams who sneaked into the City beforehand?

Got TO the city, you mean...

What I'm really looking forward to now is how Lemuel and Michael's talk is gonna go. Now that Michael and his merry men are under custody, it shouldn't be too long until he and Lemuel are reunited.

Not if Grace has her way...

[Commander Xillian]

The lake not having a bottom is very interesting. I remember reading a description of Hell that says digging deep enough will have you going out somewhere else in Hell.
What if this lake does that? After a point, instead of going deeper, you start going up.
Yahweh's corpse might refloat eventually.

Nah, he'll likely just hit midway and get caught in a gravity trap where he's constantly spinning. THAT would be funny to see.

[Ilya Muromets]

Just wondering, but how large is the lake (distance across, etc.)? I'm trying to think of RL cases of deep lakes that would be similar (Lake Tahoe leaps to mind as being over a thousand feet deep; ditto Crater Lake). Also, unless the shore drops off at 90 degrees or near to it (which I know does happen IRL...there's a case of this in the Cayman Islands by one of the smaller islands), something should show up on the scan, even if it's just a really deep slope.

Maybe they popped out over the middle of an underwater rift that's not only deep, but also really wide. Which means that must be a HUGE damn rift in an already huge-ass lake.

What I'm really looking forward to now is how Lemuel and Michael's talk is gonna go. Now that Michael and his merry men are under custody, it shouldn't be too long until he and Lemuel are reunited.

Not if Grace has her way...

Hm... true. In a test of wills between a determined, dedicated medical professional and a couple of generals over said medical professional's patients... well, it's too close to call.