Currently untitled short story: prologue

[avianmosquito]

Was I talking to you, asshole?

He's not wrong. You can rise to the occasion or not, but cursing at your readers won't make your writing better.

He's not right either, and furthermore, he's a troll. He's a pointless and unconstructive individual, and I don't care to listen to him. (Then why the hell am I acknowledging him?)

[CaptainChewbacca]

He's not right either, and furthermore, he's a troll. He's a pointless and unconstructive individual, and I don't care to listen to him. (Then why the hell am I acknowledging him?)

He's not a troll, you can't dismiss someone who disagrees with you that easily. Step up your game and write more fic that is better than what you've posted and you'll see if he's a troll or not. You're listening to him because he actually read what you posted, and said something relevant. You need to listen more when this happens.

[Norade]

Was I talking to you, asshole?

He's not wrong. You can rise to the occasion or not, but cursing at your readers won't make your writing better.

He's not right either, and furthermore, he's a troll. He's a pointless and unconstructive individual, and I don't care to listen to him. (Then why the hell am I acknowledging him?)

Funny, when I'm crossing the line mods step in on me and the other posters tend to treat me as if I smell funny. As this isn't the case here, I don't think I'm trolling. Also, when you post here you're talking to everybody on the site, no matter what you may think.

Also DR5, please provide proof of my trolling or shut the fuck up.

[Simon_Jester]

The real point, though, is that suspense is not nearly as valuable as you might believe. Especially not if the weakness is the kind of thing I suspect it's going to be, given the overall quality of your past work.

And what would that be?

Well, pretty much what Norade said, because he's right.

Given the overall quality of your past work on this site, I predict that the Secret Weakness of the necros is going to be something contrived. Something that seems superficially plausible to someone with a high school education in science, but that falls apart when examined in light of college-level education. Something that will probably make the necros look ridiculous, and whoever designed them more ridiculous, for failing to consider this obvious weakness in their design.

Your work is a thin layer of detail over paper thin depth most of the time. You can fool idiots with that, but the people here tend to like a bit of depth.

Was I talking to you, asshole?[/quote]Does it matter? He's right, and you don't have ownership rights over this conversation.

Seriously, your plots are poorly thought out and require extensive work to rationalize; your "tech manual" material is even more poorly thought out and takes even more work to rationalize. And whenever anyone attempts to assist you in this work (which you really ought to be able to do for yourself), you fight them tooth and nail, constantly making up justifications for why your bad ideas are actually good- justifications that make the ideas worse, as often as not.

[avianmosquito]

The real point, though, is that suspense is not nearly as valuable as you might believe. Especially not if the weakness is the kind of thing I suspect it's going to be, given the overall quality of your past work.

And what would that be?

Well, pretty much what Norade said, because he's right.

Given the overall quality of your past work on this site, I predict that the Secret Weakness of the necros is going to be something contrived. Something that seems superficially plausible to someone with a high school education in science, but that falls apart when examined in light of college-level education. Something that will probably make the necros look ridiculous, and whoever designed them more ridiculous, for failing to consider this obvious weakness in their design.

Spoiler

There are a few, actually.
1. They are vulnerable to poison, particularly heavy metal poisoning and ammonium. This was a control mechanism in their original slave design, as if they started becoming dissident they could simply have their feed laced with lead, and riot could be put down with an ammonium aerosol. (The problem with massive usage of this aerosol is that it harms humans and animals as well.)
2. Their failing renal system causes numerous symptoms such as high blood pressure and hypocalcemia, and eventually (6-18 months later) death. This is designed as a control mechanism as well, as it makes them reliant on their creators' medicine. (But, because this is caused by a toxin mixed into the mutagen, those borne necros never develope these symptoms.)
3. Their distinctive jaundice makes them easy to distinguish from humans.
4. Metals of the 11th group, such as copper, gold and silver are especially toxic to them, especially as a salt. (Silver salt is used in anti-transhuman ammunition also known "sharp-dropper" or "slaver" bullets for this reason.) This was to make them more vulnerable to the bullets of their makers. (which were either lead/copper (standard) or silver salt/gold/silver (slaver)
5. Finally, silver acts as a catalyst to etyhlene oxidation. (I just remembered this, it wasn't originally part of the plan, but it's an interesting weakness none the less.) I'm assuming I don't need to tell you what that means a gold-bodied, silver-jacketed slaver bullet containing violently toxic silver salt is going to do to them.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

There are a few, actually.

Why are you fucking spoilerizing this? In a vain attempt at hiding just how poorly-conceived your flaming zombie story actually is? I'm going to de-spoilerize all this, just because it annoys me that much.

1. They are vulnerable to poison, particularly heavy metal poisoning and ammonium. This was a control mechanism in their original slave design, as if they started becoming dissident they could simply have their feed laced with lead, and riot could be put down with an ammonium aerosol. (The problem with massive usage of this aerosol is that it harms humans and animals as well.)

Gods, would it have killed you to have stuck with the many highly toxic chemical weapons already in existence? And if you could design flaming zombies, couldn't you have designed in some sort of weakness to some genetic switch being flipped on by an equally designed retrovirus or a synthetic mycoplasma? There's ridiculous, and then there's you.

2. Their failing renal system causes numerous symptoms such as high blood pressure and hypocalcemia, and eventually (6-18 months later) death. This is designed as a control mechanism as well, as it makes them reliant on their creators' medicine. (But, because this is caused by a toxin mixed into the mutagen, those borne necros never develope these symptoms.)

Learn to goddamn spell. And . . . mutagen? So these flaming zombies are produced via mutagen mixed with poison? Where did you learn your bioscience, watching Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles on Saturday morning cartoons?

3. Their distinctive jaundice makes them easy to distinguish from humans.

As if the apparent pronounced tendency to burst into flame at the slightest provocation, and the proclivity towards producing profoundly toxic quantities of ethylene (toxic to anything remotely based on a human being, by the way) wouldn't distinguish them from regular non-flaming, non-toxin-spewing human beings.

4. Metals of the 11th group, such as copper, gold and silver are especially toxic to them, especially as a salt. (Silver salt is used in anti-transhuman ammunition also known "sharp-dropper" or "slaver" bullets for this reason.) This was to make them more vulnerable to the bullets of their makers. (which were either lead/copper (standard) or silver salt/gold/silver (slaver)

You do realize that these heavy metal salts are rather toxic to normal humans, yes? And . . . you do realize that bullets kill people via traumatic injury, right? If you shoot someone enough times, chances are, they will die of blood loss and injury before they die of metal poisoning.

5. Finally, silver acts as a catalyst to etyhlene oxidation. (I just remembered this, it wasn't originally part of the plan, but it's an interesting weakness none the less.) I'm assuming I don't need to tell you what that means a gold-bodied, silver-jacketed slaver bullet containing violently toxic silver salt is going to do to them.

A catalyst at . . . 250 degrees Centigrade. Gods, you fail at science. And I can tell you what a gold-bodied, silver-jacketed bullet will do to them. It will put big holes in them, causing them to die of via traumatic tissue damage and blood loss. It will do so at the cost of $318.59 per round, assuming standard 115 grain 9mm ammunition (and taking the present cost of gold of ~$1212 per ounce.) Rather less for a 5.56mm rifle round, and quite a bit more for the typical 7.62mm rifle round. Either way, I feel compelled to reiterate: There's ridiculous, and then there's you.

[Dark Hellion]

So they are weak to silver nitrate? Seriously? Come on man, you are writing a story not a Mars Volta song!

Frankly, I think they'll have a much bigger weakness to 25mm autocannons firing incendiary rounds. People won't need to bother with making bling-bling bullets when you can shoot them with a round that the U.S. has produced 6 million of.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah. It seems like you looked up some Fun Chemical Facts to give your zombies weaknesses and then tried to apply them without the necessary context to figure out whether they're helpful. Being made out of meat (and therefore not immune to bullets) is a much greater weakness than "suffers from weakness of the renal system and is vulnerable to heavy metal poisoning." It is way easier to shoot someone with bullets than it is to inject them full of heavy metal salts or whatever, stand back, and wait for them to keel over from central nervous system damage.

But no, that would be too conventional a way to deal with the Zombie Menace...

[CaptainChewbacca]

So they're zombies with all the weaknesses of a Blade-universe vampire? Fail. These things sound like they'll die if you look at them crosseyed.

[avianmosquito]

There are a few, actually.

Why are you fucking spoilerizing this? In a vain attempt at hiding just how poorly-conceived your flaming zombie story actually is? I'm going to de-spoilerize all this, just because it annoys me that much.

1. They are vulnerable to poison, particularly heavy metal poisoning and ammonium. This was a control mechanism in their original slave design, as if they started becoming dissident they could simply have their feed laced with lead, and riot could be put down with an ammonium aerosol. (The problem with massive usage of this aerosol is that it harms humans and animals as well.)

Gods, would it have killed you to have stuck with the many highly toxic chemical weapons already in existence? And if you could design flaming zombies, couldn't you have designed in some sort of weakness to some genetic switch being flipped on by an equally designed retrovirus or a synthetic mycoplasma? There's ridiculous, and then there's you.

Lead is cheap. Ammonium is cheap. What more do you want?

Learn to goddamn spell. And . . . mutagen? So these flaming zombies are produced via mutagen mixed with poison? Where did you learn your bioscience, watching Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles on Saturday morning cartoons?

"Mutagen" is a lot faster than saying "Mutagenic retrovirus."

As if the apparent pronounced tendency to burst into flame at the slightest provocation, and the proclivity towards producing profoundly toxic quantities of ethylene (toxic to anything remotely based on a human being, by the way) wouldn't distinguish them from regular non-flaming, non-toxin-spewing human beings.

Slightest provocation? You need an open flame. Further, ethylene is an asphysiant, (probably didn't spell that right) not a true toxin, and it is the reason for their brain damage. Further, the level of ethylene drops over time. Finally, the jaundice is visible, and therefore requires no fancy instruments other than your eyes to detect.

You do realize that these heavy metal salts are rather toxic to normal humans, yes? And . . . you do realize that bullets kill people via traumatic injury, right? If you shoot someone enough times, chances are, they will die of blood loss and injury before they die of metal poisoning.

I'm well aware of the toxicity of these salts, otherwise this would not be possible. Further, why shoot somebody repeatedly when you could shoot them once?

A catalyst at . . . 250 degrees Centigrade. Gods, you fail at science. And I can tell you what a gold-bodied, silver-jacketed bullet will do to them. It will put big holes in them, causing them to die of via traumatic tissue damage and blood loss. It will do so at the cost of $318.59 per round, assuming standard 115 grain 9mm ammunition (and taking the present cost of gold of ~$1212 per ounce.) Rather less for a 5.56mm rifle round, and quite a bit more for the typical 7.62mm rifle round. Either way, I feel compelled to reiterate: There's ridiculous, and then there's you.

You're forgetting the structure of these rounds. For a 6g bullet, (fuck you and your imperial measurement) you've got only 1.5g of gold, 3.5g of silver salt, and a single gram of pur silver, tipped with thermite lining the edge of the cavity of the hollow-point bullet. Do the math. The THERMITE that makes these tracers may go out quickly, but the bullet us glowing with heat for hundreds of metres. I'm pretty sure they're well over 250c when they hit.

[CaptainChewbacca]

So all I have to do to take out a zombie is get a tracer round NEAR it? That's absurd. These things couldn't overrun an NRA conference, let alone a city.

[Simon_Jester]

Lead is cheap. Ammonium is cheap. What more do you want?

I want to put them down fast. Lead poisoning is slow. Bullets are fast. Why use slow poisons to kill something attacking me when I can instead use fast bullets?

I'm well aware of the toxicity of these salts, otherwise this would not be possible. Further, why shoot somebody repeatedly when you could shoot them once?

Because precious metals are expensive, normal bullets are cheap, and because that way I won't have to sit around and wait for hours for them to drop dead of heavy metal poisoning while they're gnawing on my torso or whatever?

The fact that a chemical reaction with the bullet I just shot something with will kill it in three hours or whatever is no comfort in a combat situation, not if it's still moving. If one normal bullet is not enough to put these things down, neither is one super-expensive solid gold or whatever bullet. Therefore, I have a choice. I can use many normal bullets (cheap) or I can use one super-expensive solid gold bullet, then run away for several hours while it poisons them to death.

Which option isn't stupid?

[Norade]

First off, thank you for proving me right again. I love being right!

1. They are vulnerable to poison, particularly heavy metal poisoning and ammonium. This was a control mechanism in their original slave design, as if they started becoming dissident they could simply have their feed laced with lead, and riot could be put down with an ammonium aerosol. (The problem with massive usage of this aerosol is that it harms humans and animals as well.)

This isn't going to work as well as you might hope and will cause more harm than you think to those around it. It will, depending on how many necros over a certain area kill crops and plants near where it's released, sear the lungs of any living things similar most life forms on Earth, and be a bitch to clean up unless you want to hose down a fairly large area. Doses small enough to ensure no collateral damage leave the issue making sure enough reaches the necros to do any good, small amounts of gas an be blown away and dispersed really easily so unless you want this to be unreasonably deadly to them it doesn't work half so well as you'd want it to.

2. Their failing renal system causes numerous symptoms such as high blood pressure and hypocalcemia, and eventually (6-18 months later) death. This is designed as a control mechanism as well, as it makes them reliant on their creators' medicine. (But, because this is caused by a toxin mixed into the mutagen, those borne necros never develope these symptoms.)

First, why did you use the obsolete form of develop and then bitch about extra typing for using mutagen correctly?

So you're going to virus your people with a poison to make this work? Why not disguise your shit as a vaccine and have it piggyback something less harmful to infect people? There are better ways to make people rely on you than to cripple them and make them near worthless as soldiers due to the symptoms of their failing health. You also need to waste resources keeping your shambling mounds of ass alive long enough to make the investment worth it.

3. Their distinctive jaundice makes them easy to distinguish from humans.

Would it not be easier to mark them in some other way that isn't retarded? Then again, you giving your creations a marker that can cause them brain damage along with your other posts make that a rhetorical question.

4. Metals of the 11th group, such as copper, gold and silver are especially toxic to them, especially as a salt. (Silver salt is used in anti-transhuman ammunition also known "sharp-dropper" or "slaver" bullets for this reason.) This was to make them more vulnerable to the bullets of their makers. (which were either lead/copper (standard) or silver salt/gold/silver (slaver)

Only you would think a silver bullet would be a better idea than just using tracers to crisp or larger HE rounds to blow your flammable brain dead walking corpses to chunks.

5. Finally, silver acts as a catalyst to etyhlene oxidation. (I just remembered this, it wasn't originally part of the plan, but it's an interesting weakness none the less.) I'm assuming I don't need to tell you what that means a gold-bodied, silver-jacketed slaver bullet containing violently toxic silver salt is going to do to them.

More complexity that was never needed to begin with.

It shouldn't be that hard to make a not retarded idea along the same lines as what you're going for, but you seem to be having an exceptionally difficult time with it...

[CaptainChewbacca]

Given their flammability and multiple vulnerabilities, these sound alot like the zombies from the Area 51 arcade game.

[Norade]

Given their flammability and multiple vulnerabilities, these sound alot like the zombies from the Area 51 arcade game.

Yeah, now that you say that they really do, and those were some weak ass zombies.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Lead is cheap. Ammonium is cheap. What more do you want?

I don't know. Maybe something less brain-dead and better thought-out. The silliness of this has already been deconstructed by others.

Learn to goddamn spell. And . . . mutagen? So these flaming zombies are produced via mutagen mixed with poison? Where did you learn your bioscience, watching Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles on Saturday morning cartoons?

"Mutagen" is a lot faster than saying "Mutagenic retrovirus."

When you use shorthand, it should not make you look like an idiot. Of course, since the first result for "mutagenic retrovirus" is Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki . . . sometimes writing things out makes you look like an idiot anyway. Of course, there are issues with using retroviruses for genetic therapy, such as the one where the virus can insert the genetic material pretty much anywhere it wants.

As if the apparent pronounced tendency to burst into flame at the slightest provocation, and the proclivity towards producing profoundly toxic quantities of ethylene (toxic to anything remotely based on a human being, by the way) wouldn't distinguish them from regular non-flaming, non-toxin-spewing human beings.

Slightest provocation? You need an open flame. Further, ethylene is an asphysiant, (probably didn't spell that right) not a true toxin, and it is the reason for their brain damage. Further, the level of ethylene drops over time. Finally, the jaundice is visible, and therefore requires no fancy instruments other than your eyes to detect.

I know how to solve the flaming zombie problem once and for all. Get them all hooked on cigarettes. Or crack-cocaine. Or, better yet, the simple device known as the flamethrower.

You do realize that these heavy metal salts are rather toxic to normal humans, yes? And . . . you do realize that bullets kill people via traumatic injury, right? If you shoot someone enough times, chances are, they will die of blood loss and injury before they die of metal poisoning.

I'm well aware of the toxicity of these salts, otherwise this would not be possible. Further, why shoot somebody repeatedly when you could shoot them once?

Because shooting them repeatedly makes them dead in far less time than neurological effects from heavy metal poisoning will. Of course, since these are highly-flammable zombies, a quick shot from a flamethrower will also make them dead in far less time than heavy metal salt poisoning.

A catalyst at . . . 250 degrees Centigrade. Gods, you fail at science. And I can tell you what a gold-bodied, silver-jacketed bullet will do to them. It will put big holes in them, causing them to die of via traumatic tissue damage and blood loss. It will do so at the cost of $318.59 per round, assuming standard 115 grain 9mm ammunition (and taking the present cost of gold of ~$1212 per ounce.) Rather less for a 5.56mm rifle round, and quite a bit more for the typical 7.62mm rifle round. Either way, I feel compelled to reiterate: There's ridiculous, and then there's you.

You're forgetting the structure of these rounds. For a 6g bullet, (fuck you and your imperial measurement) you've got only 1.5g of gold, 3.5g of silver salt, and a single gram of pur silver, tipped with thermite lining the edge of the cavity of the hollow-point bullet. Do the math. The THERMITE that makes these tracers may go out quickly, but the bullet us glowing with heat for hundreds of metres. I'm pretty sure they're well over 250c when they hit.

Thermite . . . in a bullet. Wow, you've just won the award for the single most stupid thing I've read this week. And I read internet news article commentary. As if the handful of milligrams worth of thermite will reliably ignite, let alone produce enough energy to cause any real harm. Would it have killed you to say something less blatantly stupid, like, oh I don't know "phosphorous" or "magnesium"? So anyway, your precious-metal tracer bullet costs about $66 per round. For that price, you could have a several whole boxes of ordinary lead bullets that will kill the flaming zombies dead to anyone's satisfaction. Or a box of garden-variety tracer rounds which would also kill flaming zombies adequately dead.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Well, maybe Avian can turn it around. Lets see another chapter.

[Norade]

I'm being entertained at the very least.

[avianmosquito]

Well, maybe Avian can turn it around. Lets see another chapter.

Later today, hopefully. When my wife gets home at 6(UTC-8) she's going to need the computer, so I'm not sure.

EDIT: Not today, my wife will be home soon, and I'm nowhere near done.

[avianmosquito]

Given their flammability and multiple vulnerabilities, these sound alot like the zombies from the Area 51 arcade game.

Their flammability only really works when they're packed close enough together for the flames to spread, and this requires them to be tighter and tighter as time goes on and their ethylene levels go down. This last chapter was at one week, which is before the levels drop, and at this point the burns can be lethal and spread up to 40cm away from them, so 80cm to spread between them. In a week, it'll be 4/8cm and the flames will no longer cause lethal burns, in fact, the burns will barely be 2nd degree.

The point of the ethylene is to cause brain damage and psychological effect. (Look up the effects of ethylene, and you'll get the value of this.) Their vulnerability to silver was accidental, (I hadn't even thought of it) and their vulnerability to poison was so they could be killed off quickly, cheaply and discreetly by their masters should the need arise by contaminating their food. Ammonium is a bad example of a way to kill them, but in a riot it might work, and you could also use simple, natural pesticides such as pyrethrum.

Their jaundice is a result of liver damage that occurs during their mutation. (and is not intentional) It's not a marking mechanism of any kind. The renal failure only occurs if they are not treated medically. (Their creators could treat them with a pill for ten cents a day, not enough of a burden to overcome the control advantage. Should they become out of hand, they'll only live a few months.) Those born into it are not poisoned in such a maner, although since their saliva contains a toxin that overloads the target's kidneys and causes eventual death, (as the act of biting takes them off the field immediately but generally isn't lethal) they are slightly more likely to develope these symptoms than normal humans. (Not enough to matter.)

[CaptainChewbacca]

I have to say, I'm curious as to how they're emitting ethylene given that its a plant product not found in animals.

[avianmosquito]

I have to say, I'm curious as to how they're emitting ethylene given that its a plant product not found in animals.

Hey, it's a hell of a lot better than shooting steel spikes, isn't it.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Hey, it's a hell of a lot better than shooting steel spikes, isn't it.

No, equally stupid.

[avianmosquito]

Hey, it's a hell of a lot better than shooting steel spikes, isn't it.

No, equally stupid.

Really? Because we already use methionine, all that's left is the enzyme, and you can synthesize ethylene.

[Norade]

When can we expect the next story post?