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To put this simply, I've been messing around with multiple story ideas, and not really gaining much headway with them. So, I think it's about time I re-examine the one story I have finished, which is Twin Helix.

For the people here who haven't read it (basically everyone here except Ace Pace & LadyTevar), its based on the Exalted RPG universe. It was written in direct chronological order, which means the later chapters are better written than the earlier ones.

What I'm going to do is "map" out the story (the main story thread, the sideplots, characters, character interactions, etc.), and then re-write it from the top, so I hopefully won't run into the "use the same adjective 18 times in one chapter" thing, as well as a few other pitfalls. What I'm asking from all of you is opinions on it. I may or may not take them into account for the finished rewrite, but I'd like to hear your thoughts nonetheless. (LadyTevar, with your permission, I'll repost the PM you sent me about your critiques, to better help this thread along.)

And for the record, some of the chapter & part names might change. Hell, even the name of the story might be different when I'm done. I thank you in advance for your thoughts and ideas. I'll credit anyone whose ideas I use in the final draft, or whose ideas helped influence a change.

I'll also be taking this story as a hard copy over to an English professor over at the local community college for critiquing, but any and all ideas and such people here give me is warmly welcomed. Go nuts - even suggesting Kale be a mage instead of a sneaky bastard of a ranger type of character is okay. Just know that I'm pretty happy with Rosethorne/Aya as she is; she might be better developed in the rewrite however.

This is a 60 chapter story, divided into three parts of twenty chapters each. I'll repost the links below, if you'd like to re-read it.

Twin Helix Part 1: The Spirals Form
Twin Helix Part 2: The Second Circle of Being
Twin Helix Part 3: The Spirals Close

Okay, I'll give it a try from memories, because althought it was a fine story I don't feel like reading it all over again right now.

The main trouble I had with your story was that is exceedingly unlikely a group of young Solars (none of which will be above Essence 5 in game terms) plus a couple of Lunars and the occasionnal Dragon-blooded could defeat a Deathlord - even a young one like Mask of Winters, when you gave him so many Abyssals. With Void Circle Necromancy, MoW can make himself immune to effects designed to harm him through his undead nature, regain Essence and IIRC health levels anytime somebody is killed in a radius of a few miles, and other effects like conjuring an Abyssal warstrider around himself.
What about the consequences of such a setback for the Underworld? Won't the other Deathlords (like Walker in Darkness) rush to attack the weakened alliance and seize MoW's assets?
Perhaps the story could use a few sneaky Sidereals - why not on the side of the Deathlords, like an agent from one of MoW's rivals? (at least two Sidereals have joined the Deathlords, including one on the side of MoW, a First Age one who met him before the Usurpation and planted the seeds of madness and ambition in his Solar life). Gold faction teachers and sponsors could be a serious boost if you plan on your characters to take on MoW.

As far as your Solar Circle is concerned, I'd have the members meet much sooner and adventure some bit together, perhaps through the Eclipse caste (remake her a merchant or an information brooker to make it more realistic), play out Rosethorne's conversion with the Zenith caste, and the effects of Abyssal Resonance as she tries to adjust to her life. Her changing to Solar was a bit antithematic - the only thing that is suggested in-universe as capable of undoing the Neverborn's taint is the intervention of the primordial Autochton himself. You can easily double or triple the length of your saga if you integrate part of the Locust Crusade culminating with the return of Autochton to Creation, and have Rosethorne then cleansed of her Abyssal taint*.
Though I admit that the part with Rosethorn's second Exaltation was very climactic, and almost caused me to wet my eyeballs

*you can make another, parallel saga regarding the Locust Crusade if you fancy it, located around the South. Alchemicals FTW!

rhoenix wrote:For the people here who haven't read it (basically everyone here except Ace Pace & LadyTevar)

I read the first part, but I never did finish it. If you re-write it, the chances are that I'll come along for the ride, because I rather like Exalted. I know that might not be helpful, but it could be encouraging.

Regarding Rosethorne's cleasing: another way to do it would be to sneak her Monstrance of Celestial Portion out of the Mask's reach, and destroy it with Solar Circle Sorcery (the Monstrance is immune to Charms, and Sorcery of the Emerald or Sapphire Circles). This would result in her Essence being freed from the Neverborn's influence.

EDIT: after doing a bit of research, it appears that redemption is possible for an Abyssal Exalt. It involves a Zenith Caste acting as an exorcist, and a Twilight sorcerer to contain and cleanse the tainted Essence (hence the need for the Monstrance can be included, and make for a potent adventure hook ). At the cost of losing 2 points of permanent Essence and access to all Necromancy Circles, and converting at least half of her Charms to Solar equivalents, the Abyssal becomes a living Solar once again.

Before I reply to your thoughts, I'd like to repost this PM LadyTevar sent me a while back, now that I've her permission:

LadyTevar wrote:I had wondered if the Exalted were your own idea or not. I was about to complement you on such a well-imaged world history and background

Sadly, yeah, I borrowed it, though I am tempted to simply recreate the universe as one of my own design. I still might.

LadyTevar wrote:Still, the characters were all your own, and they were very well fleshed-out and believable. I was drawn to Kale immediately, and Abyssal Rosethorne was such a shocking opposite. I did find the 'omg, she's my old girlfriend' cliche, especially after we already had one connection thru the Essences being old lovers. That alone could have made it work, imho.

While true, I liked the dual threads weaving the two of them together. Having them know one another from childhood as well as their Essences being an old married couple seemed to make the story unfold as if it were fated, in my mind.

However, in re-reading it last night and today, the "I used to know her as a kid!" part came off a bit ham-handed.

LadyTevar wrote:You write wonderful word-play between characters, as well as just the right about of detail on the land they're passing thru, clothing, etc. The battles are awesome, but the one chapter where they finally declare/make love is awkward. Your inexperience was showing a bit... although the Oasis Scene was devilishly funny.

I've never been happy with the part where they knock boots, but didn't know quite how to rewrite it, until now anyway.

As for the Oasis scene, it's inspired a few other changes to other dialogue here and there, but we'll see how it goes.

LadyTevar wrote:A couple things did stand out and bothered me.
First, the sudden appearance of Nemilette. Talk about your out-of-left-field. I knew immediately she wasn't really Aya's daughter, but the true background was even more bizarre. Then there was her method of speaking. "Surprised, -mother-? Did you not know about me -mother-?" All the -mother- at the ends of nearly every sentence got annoying. I know she was supposed to push it and annoy Aya, but I got the point the first time.

Nemilette was a character that just suddenly came to me, but she needs to be better written and presented - she was intended to be more or less as she was, just not quite as annoying. I'll fix all the "mother" stuff, and accentuate her feelings toward Aya at that time in other ways.

LadyTevar wrote:The discussion between Aya's mother and 'daughter' also went too far with the ragging on Aya, imho.

I agree, that part could've been better written - it was supposed to give the impression that they thought she might still yet give in, and die.

LadyTevar wrote:Speaking of Aya's mother: once again, she's introduced as a whiny annoying slutty bitch that Rosethorne would love to see die, and then suddenly this is Aya's MOM?! Woah, left field again. Also a little cheesy that Mom's able to be rescued as well, and then doesn't recognize Kale as her daughter's little friend from childhood.

I only had her not recognize Kale because Aya didn't, and I felt that might've been inconsistent. The weirdness between Aya and her mom I felt was a good idea at base, because it's difficult to see coming - and it fits all the fucked-up-ness of what the Abyssals deal with on a daily basis.

But yeah, that interplay needs to be better written.

LadyTevar wrote:Still... that's all my major complaints. I'd still buy the book

Thank you - there might yet be one.

Nomad, as I reply to your points, I also must mention I sold all my books a few years ago. At the time, I had the Tome & Blood book, Abyssals (duh), the main rulebook (duh), the Lunars book, the Sidereals, and the Player's Guide. I remember much of the abstract stuff, but not too much of the specifics.

I do remember that Aya had Steel Devil Style mastered toward the end of Part 3, which just made her more of a frightening badass. With what both she and Kale were capable of, I toned down what they did in the story to not make it too over-the-top.

The Nomad wrote:Okay, I'll give it a try from memories, because althought it was a fine story I don't feel like reading it all over again right now.

Fair enough.

The Nomad wrote:The main trouble I had with your story was that is exceedingly unlikely a group of young Solars (none of which will be above Essence 5 in game terms) plus a couple of Lunars and the occasionnal Dragon-blooded could defeat a Deathlord - even a young one like Mask of Winters, when you gave him so many Abyssals. With Void Circle Necromancy, MoW can make himself immune to effects designed to harm him through his undead nature, regain Essence and IIRC health levels anytime somebody is killed in a radius of a few miles, and other effects like conjuring an Abyssal warstrider around himself.

I did tone him down a bit, about by the same ratio I toned down the player characters. Ophelia, for instance, had Righteous Devil style, which was used to stun the Mask of Winters twice. Basically, by this point in the story, they were strong enough to take him out. If he were the First & Forsaken Lion instead, probably not.

The Nomad wrote:What about the consequences of such a setback for the Underworld? Won't the other Deathlords (like Walker in Darkness) rush to attack the weakened alliance and seize MoW's assets?

I thought about this when I toyed with the idea of writing a sequel, but I never plotted it out very far. You're right though - Aya intended for all of the Mask's assets to be seized by the rest, making sure that he had no place of power anymore. She knew full well the other Deathlords would take what was left of his stuff.

The Nomad wrote:Perhaps the story could use a few sneaky Sidereals - why not on the side of the Deathlords, like an agent from one of MoW's rivals? (at least two Sidereals have joined the Deathlords, including one on the side of MoW, a First Age one who met him before the Usurpation and planted the seeds of madness and ambition in his Solar life). Gold faction teachers and sponsors could be a serious boost if you plan on your characters to take on MoW.

I was tempted...but what the Sidereals do and are capable of just rubbed me the wrong way. After reading through their charms, and especially their martial arts, they're far, far better (in my mind) being treated as distant bogeymen of NPC's, and not something closer up - they're simply too unbalancing. Just their Dodge charms alone, not even counting the complete wrongness that is their martial arts makes them just...wow.

However, with the way the story was written, it was subtly implied that Sidereals had interfered in how things unfolded in the story, to make sure Rosethorne never fulfilled her destiny to become the last Deathlord.

The Nomad wrote:As far as your Solar Circle is concerned, I'd have the members meet much sooner and adventure some bit together, perhaps through the Eclipse caste (remake her a merchant or an information brooker to make it more realistic), play out Rosethorne's conversion with the Zenith caste, and the effects of Abyssal Resonance as she tries to adjust to her life. Her changing to Solar was a bit antithematic - the only thing that is suggested in-universe as capable of undoing the Neverborn's taint is the intervention of the primordial Autochton himself. You can easily double or triple the length of your saga if you integrate part of the Locust Crusade culminating with the return of Autochton to Creation, and have Rosethorne then cleansed of her Abyssal taint*.
Though I admit that the part with Rosethorn's second Exaltation was very climactic, and almost caused me to wet my eyeballs

Unfortunately, I never got the Alchemicals book, so I won't be able to write them or Autochthon very well.

However, I do thank you for your ideas - I might just use them.

The Nomad wrote:Regarding Rosethorne's cleasing: another way to do it would be to sneak her Monstrance of Celestial Portion out of the Mask's reach, and destroy it with Solar Circle Sorcery (the Monstrance is immune to Charms, and Sorcery of the Emerald or Sapphire Circles). This would result in her Essence being freed from the Neverborn's influence.

I'm sorry, refresh my memory - what do you mean by the "Monstrance of Celestial Portion?" I don't remember reading about that.

The Nomad wrote:EDIT: after doing a bit of research, it appears that redemption is possible for an Abyssal Exalt. It involves a Zenith Caste acting as an exorcist, and a Twilight sorcerer to contain and cleanse the tainted Essence (hence the need for the Monstrance can be included, and make for a potent adventure hook ). At the cost of losing 2 points of permanent Essence and access to all Necromancy Circles, and converting at least half of her Charms to Solar equivalents, the Abyssal becomes a living Solar once again.

Exactly - I made sure to study that carefully before I did the Dark-Knight-to-Paladin thing with her. Also, her relentless training afterward was supposed to indicate that she wasn't anywhere near as strong as she once was as an Abyssal, and worked three times as hard to prepare herself because of that.

If anyone wants me to include the scenes, ideas, and characters I wrote out originally for this story but got cut out for some reason, let me know.

Also, The Nomad, I did indeed create finished character sheets for Aya, Kale, and Ophelia, as well as a First Age Solar martial art Melek was supposed to have. If you're curious, I'll post them - but they're fluff mostly unrelated to the story apart from trivia.

The Monstrance of Celestial Portion is a black jade, bleached bone and soulsteel cage to which an Abyssal Essence is bound. Through manipulation of the Monstrance's commands, the Deathlords can select the next host of a Black Exaltation. They can also cast it into the Mouth of the Void (direct link to Oblivion) in order to utterly destroy a rebel Abyssal wherever he may be (IIRC the Exaltation survives, but a new Monstrance must be built and the Essence trapped through Necromancy of the highest Circle, as it scuttles back pitifully away from Creation's sun into the Underworld). This decision is never taken lightly, of course.

The Nomad wrote:The Monstrance of Celestial Portion is a black jade, bleached bone and soulsteel cage to which an Abyssal Essence is bound. Through manipulation of the Monstrance's commands, the Deathlords can select the next host of a Black Exaltation. They can also cast it into the Mouth of the Void (direct link to Oblivion) in order to utterly destroy a rebel Abyssal wherever he may be (IIRC the Exaltation survives, but a new Monstrance must be built and the Essence trapped through Necromancy of the highest Circle, as it scuttles back pitifully away from Creation's sun into the Underworld). This decision is never taken lightly, of course.

I see now - thank you. I was simply calling them Essence Traps in the first few chapters - I'd forgotten that I'd done that.

This does present an interesting possibility of inclusion of Autochthon to break the Malfean control over Rosethorne's Essence, though I'm not sure what Occam's Razor thinks of that idea quite yet.

In either case, it certainly suggests possibilities.

Just as a progress update for brainstorming: I'm highly tempted to change this from fan fiction into something original.

With the changes I'm envisioning, Kale would become more a mage type of character than a swordsman, but I'm hoping to leave in all the philosophical discussions between he and Rosethorne before she turns over a new leaf.

Could be worse - at first, I was thinking of making him a werewolf shaman (wankwankwank)!

Kade as a No-Moon shaman? meh, keep him a Night Caste. Or a Twilight if you really want (well, technically you can make him a Night Caste sorcerer, but since the display of Essence from sorcery can't be suppressed by Night Caste anima, it's a bit less useful than the Twiligth defensive anima).

BTW, I didn't react to one of your comments initially, but Ophelia can't have learnt Righteous Devil Style without help from at least a Manse's library or most likely a Sidereal or Lunar tutor. Like Sorcery, Martial Arts Charms must be taught by a teacher, they can't be discovered alone (the exception being Snake Style, which naturallly comes to Solars)).

All the more reason to include a few low-level Gold Faction Sidereals - say a Chosen of Venus, you can even play out Rosethorne's budding jealousy if a Sidereal chick tries to pick up Kade with her Maiden of Serenity social-fu Making the role of Sidereals more prominent (not too much, they remain scheming connivers, but still) makes Mask of Winter's defeat look more plausible. More realistically, you should force Mask and his Juggernaught back in the Underworld, and seal the shadowland with Adamant Circle Sorcery.


Well, if you want to use an original universe, may I shamelessly suggest a favorite magic tendency of mine, in which spells and wizardry is based on summoning the right spirit/demon/ghost/beast to achieve a given end (plus the usual alchemy, divination trance and rune-based item enchantment and wards)? Pacts with more powerful spirits (like a binder from D&D) could give more permanent abilities at the cost of regular investment of time and resources (like a small cult).
Of course you are free to use whatever suits your fancy, I'm sure you'll make it an enjoyable read

The details; the vehicle through which the story will be told might change. I likely won't be using the Exalted universe for the rewrite, as even though I took many, many liberties with it, it's still someone else's playground.

But, with that said - the different plot threads and such still need to be examined. I liked the relationship between Rosethorne/Aya and Kale, as they were great foils for one another's growth as characters. Coming to the conclusions and events they did from completely different directions felt poignant to me, and I'd like to keep that.

As I started writing originally, my decision to have her be the evil, cold, anti-hero instead of him seemed like an interesting point of view, since nearly always in fantasy, the lady is this helpless wench that ineptly causes trouble - having Rosethorne be who she was ended up being grand fun, as she ended up being a character that was almost frighteningly intriguing.

Making Kale as her foil, and not as someone inept (just not as experienced a warrior as she) helped bring out their chemistry as characters very well, and is a relationship I'd like to have again in the rewrite.

With all of that said though, there are some frayed plot ends that were never resolved in the original writing of this story - for instance, the wraith Bjorn Stangald was a broad hint to what she might become, but he was never very well developed. The Mask of Winters I extrapolated from the Abyssals book, but he ended up almost being too far. I was following the Rules For Being a Dark Evil Overlord with him, as I despise stupid nemeses, but he wasn't quite developed enough to feel more real. He and his patron both ended up feeling more like forces of nature than characters.

Ophelia Artana never felt very developed as a character either. As for Gordray, having him be effectively a proselytizing asshole made me enjoy not liking him, even though he was one of the "good guys." Morjin ended up being quite well developed, and ended up borrowing from the Merlin/Gandalf archetypes of a mage.

Any thoughts for the above, or your own observations about the story are welcome, but here are my running notes as I'm going back over this story.