StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Klingon Defense Forces

Combat starships:

6 x K-9 (Accuser) class old Dreadnoughts (11.6 megatonnes).
Length: 800 meters
Beam: 440 meters
Height: 320 meters
Notes: Powerful but extremely obsolete Klingon class which was built
to the total of nine ships in the pre-Khitomer era when the Klingon Empire
seemed powerful enough to challenge the UFP and Romulan Star Empire simultaneously.
These were for a long time the second-largest ships in the Alpha and Beta quadrants
behind the fifteen ships of the famed UFP Defender-class of 12 megatonnes. To
preserve them the present Klingon regime long kept them in reserve and they saw
only limited service in the Dominion war, where one was lost. The present six were
considerably upgraded with Alliance assistance during the conflict, and soldier on
in active duty now as the most powerful vessels the Klingon Empire can field until
what is believed to be a new design now under development can be completed.

12 x B-10 (Sword of Kahless) class old Battleships (8.1 megatonnes).
Length: 720 meters
Beam: 400 meters
Height: 244 meters
Notes: These were the more numerous adjuncts to the K-9 type, with some twenty-seven
in all being completed in the pre-Khitomer era. Fifteen survived to fight in the Dominion
War, and three were lost. The remainder have also been upgraded by the Alliance, but scarcely
compare to the largest of cruiser types in more modern and better equipped navies. The original
production run was to be larger, but was terminated by the Khitomer incident.

15 x L-24 (Ever Victorious) class old Battleships (7.5 megatonnes).
Length: 680 meters
Beam: 350 meters
Height: 190 meters
Notes: This class were the precursors to the B-10 design. Twenty-four were completed in all. Eighteen
survived in reserve to the Dominion war where, like the B-10 type, three were lost. These vessels are old
enough that they were not upgraded, but nonetheless soldier on until the Klingons can build new vessels
of this tonnage. They are comparable to the smaller but newer Romulan Nova-class in overall capabilities.

3 x L-13 (Great Warrior) class old Battleships (7.3 megatonnes).
Length: 640 meters
Beam: 340 meters
Height: 320 meters
Notes: The L-13 class, sardonically called the "Fat Man" by its crews and Starfleet observers alike,
was the first Klingon battleship design and is grossly obsolete. The surviving three ships of this class
were used as training ships in the Dominion War and have only been placed in active duty due to the loss of
more "modern" old battleships in that conflict as a stopgap measure.

12 x D'tai class Bird-of-Preys (5.28 megatonnes).
Length: 678 meters
Beam: 781 meters
Height: 124 meters
Notes: Though this design is not extremely old, extreme design problems mean these ships
are no better than many older, obsolescent vessels and are markedly inferior to the
Negh'Var class, due to the issues with the massive scaling up of the D-12 design which
proved simply impossible to this degree with any kind of success. These ships served on
the Romulan border during the Dominion War and did not see combat.

87 x Negh’Var class Heavy Cruisers (4.4 megatonnes).
Length: 682 meters
Beam: 479 meters
Height: 136 meters
Notes: The most modern of Klingon heavy designs, these heavy cruisers are fully comparable
to the best cruisers of their tonnage in any other navies, though with the usual Klingon
focus on head-on attack, and even mount two limited-traverse heavy battlecruiser scale cannon
firing forward. They have been mass-produced as a result of the Dominion War and remain the
largest and best of the post-Khitomer designs of the Klingon Defense Forces.

467 x Vor’cha class Strike Cruisers (2.24 megatonnes).
Length: 481 meters
Beam: 342 meters
Height: 106 meters
Notes: The prototypical Klingon cruiser, it is one of only five ship designs put into production
by the KDF since Khitomer, and serves admirably as a light cruiser which has comparable firepower
to the Lakota-type upgrade cycle of the Excelsior class.

36 x D-10 (Riskadh) class old Strike Cruisers (1.54 megatonnes).
Length: 364 meters
Beam: 217 meters
Height: 75 meters
Notes: This pre-Khitomer design had only a limited production run as an intended replacement
for the K't'inga in regular production, comparing to the Excelsior-class as the K't'inga did
to the ugpraded Enterprise-class. The survivors of this class soldier on as the sole examples of
any Klingon ships between 800k - 2.24 megatonnes, showing a serious deficiency in the Klingon fleet
design dispersion pattern in terms of tonnages and capabilities.

1,892 x K'vort class Bird-of-Preys (800k tonnes).
Length: 327 meters
Beam: 364 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: The prototypical Klingon midrange bird-of-prey, the K'vorts suffered hundreds of losses in
the Dominion War and construction of a replacement design has not yet begun for those losses, despite
the fact that not only the K'vorts but the elderly D-8, D-30, and even D-7 classes of similar tonnage
range soldier on in desperate need of replacement.

536 x D-8 (K’t'inga) class old Cruisers (750k tonnes).
Length: 290 meters
Beam: 190 meters
Height: 75 meters
Notes: Serves as patrol and light cruiser in virtually all functions for the KDF despite being
little more than a destroyer in terms of modern capabilities and in sore need of replacement.

48 x D-30 (Hand of Death) class old Cruisers (750k tonnes).
Length: 273 meters
Beam: 204 meters
Height: 86 meters
Notes: Competing design to the K't'ingas using non-D-7 hullform, limited production, same limitations.

355 x D-7 (K't'ara) class old Cruisers (700k tonnes).
Length: 246 meters
Beam: 160 meters
Height: 68 meters
Notes: These gravely old vessels remain in service only due to the losses the KDF suffered in the Dominion War,
and scarcely register as functional combatants.

177 x D-11 (One Wing) class old Destroyers (504k tonnes).
Length: 228 meters
Beam: 98 meters
Height: 108 meters (incld. vertical warp pylon which gives the ship its name.)
Notes: Anemic warp capability means this ship is probably worst of worst in terms of
Klingon vessels which remain in regular service and they have virtually no real capabilities
beyond pirate interdiction.

126 x D-9 (Seeker) class old Destroyers (428k tonnes).
Length: 200 meters
Beam: 155 meters
Height: 75 meters
Notes: This elderly class suffered heavy losses in the Dominion War and needs immediate replacement.

99 x D-20 (Death Rite) class old Destroyers (400k tonnes).
Length: 200 meters
Beam: 150 meters
Height: 65 meters
Notes: This elderly class suffered heavy losses in the Dominion War and needs immediate replacement.

63 x D-14 (Stinger) class old Destroyers (350k tonnes).
Length: 215 meters
Beam: 165 meters
Height: 35 meters
Notes: This elderly class suffered heavy losses in the Dominion War and needs immediate replacement.

296 x D-18 (Gull) class old Destroyers (280k tonnes).
Length: 212 meters
Beam: 159 meters
Height: 38 meters
Notes: Once the prototypical Klingon light warship with thousands built, the D-18 design has steadily
attrited in the post-Khitomer era and after the losses of the Dominion War the remaining ships soldier
on mostly as supplements to the B'rel type in regular fleet formations considering the heavy losses
that design also suffered.

7,659 x B’rel class Bird-of-Preys (236k tonnes).
Length: 158 meters
Beam: 182 meters
Height: 99 meters
Notes: Main Klingon Bird-of-Prey, remains in regular production despite the extreme age of the design,
which was started post-Khitomer as a budget vessel, a slightly scaled up D-13 (a Klingon build of the
Romulan D-12), and serves as the ubiqtuitous Klingon warship comprising half of the KDF's numerical strength.

318 x L-9 (Saber) class old light frigates (153k tonnes).
Length: 200 meters
Beam: 90 meters
Height: 30 meters
Notes: This elderly class suffered heavy losses in the Dominion War and needs immediate replacement.

219 x L-6 (Defender) class old light frigates (123k tonnes).
Length: 180 meters
Beam: 85 meters
Height: 30 meters
Notes: This elderly class suffered heavy losses in the Dominion War and needs immediate replacement.

960 x K-24 (Little Killer) class Escorts (115k tonns).
Length: 160 meters
Beam: 110 meters
Height: 55 meters (incld. drive pylon).
Notes: A pre-Khitomer design for an escort vessel to defend convoys, it was only put into production
post-Khitomer and remains the most modern escort available to the Klingons.

291 x K-23 (Winner) class old Escorts (81k tonnes).
Length: 140 meters
Beam: 100 meters
Height: 24 meters
Notes: Elderly escort the K-24 was meant to replace, remains in service thanks to Khitomer
and the Klingon economic collapse.

609 x K-17 (Deathstalker) class Scouts (80k tonnes).
Length: 140 meters
Beam: 90 meters
Height: 30 meters
Notes: This class of scout was, like the K-24, designed before Khitomer
but only built after it. It was intended as a replacement for all prior
scout designs, including the unpopular D-13 which was a direct copy of the
Romulan D-12, but due to the Klingon budget crunch, never actually was built
in enough numbers to fully replace those designs.

312 x D-13 class old Bird-of-Preys (70k tonnes).
Length: 110 meters
Beam: 128 meters
Height: 22 meters
Notes: Very unpopular due to being a direct copy of a Romulan ship, these elderly
vessels nonetheless soldier on as frontline scouts.

225 x K-27 (Grim Reaper) class old Scouts (61k tonnes).
Length: 110 meters
Beam: 70 meters
Height: 50 meters
Notes: Elderly scout built as a competing design to the D-13.

346 x K-15 (Unseen Creeper) class old Scouts (47k tonnes).
Length: 100 meters
Beam: 90 meters
Height: 50 meters (incld. warp drive pylon).
Notes: As old as the D-7 cruisers, the K-15 scouts are in terrible condition
and scarcely qualify as combatants. The fact that these ships are in continued
operation is simply a testament to the extreme poverty of the Klingon Empire.

Gunboats and Fighters:

The Klingon Defense Force employs only a single class of small gunboats, the K'pak class.
These ships are 35 meters long, 29 meters wide, and 6.5 meters high, superficially resembling
a Bird of Prey, but unlike those designs, longer than it is wide and with other differences
which mark it as an inspired design rather than a scaled copy like most Bird of Prey variants
in Klingon service. The gunboat masses around 800 metric tonnes and mounts two very small
pulse disruptors and a single, quite slow-firing and simplistic torpedo tube with six torpedoes.
It has a normal operating crew of five with capacity for a single passenger in extremely cramped
quarters. Its maximum cruising speed is Warp 7 and it can sustain Warp 9 for 12 hours, if in
good condition, which the craft rarely are. A mere 1,387 are in service and they in no sense
form an effective fighter force, unlike with the highly organized and expansive Romulan developments.
Many were lost during the Dominion War, and production has only been recently ramped up to replace
them, leaving numbers at their current low levels. It seems as if the future of this class, and any
replacement, remain in debate as the Klingon high command discusses the future of its fleet organization.

Interesting... Do the Romulans next, or preferably "other" (Such as Borg, The crystal thingies with the web, "Doomsday device", etc')

Imperial Romulan Starfleet:


9 x Scimitar-class Warbirds (~18 megatonnes).
Length: ~900 meters
Beam: ~1,400 meters
Height: ~300 meters
Notes: The existence of this class is highly speculative,
having been tracked on sensor records only for a few seconds at a time
by any foreign warships. It is officially denied by the Romulan government,
but Alliance evidence which has been released to the public, though inexact,
proves that the Romulans are indeed building a heavy-combatant intended to bring
their navy up to modern multiversal standards. Though only one-third the size of
a typical Superdreadnought, this class is by at least three million tonnes the largest
built using native technology by any power of the Alpha or Beta Quadrants, and represents
a major step forward in capability for the Romulan Starfleet.


36 x D’Kazanak-class Warbirds (9 megatonnes).
Length: 1,150 meters
Beam: 792 meters
Height: 296 meters
Notes: Though only slightly larger in overall dimensions than the D'Deridex type
Warbirds, the D'Kazanak class is much bulkier, representing an improved efficiency
in Quantume Singularity containment which reduces the central empty spaces of the hull.
In all it has more than two times the mass of a D'Deridex and places itself into the same
range as the very largest cruisers of the great powers and major non-ST-3 regional powers.
Due to the design, however, it lacks an observed fighter compliment, though examples have
been seen transporting six gunboats of up to six thousand tonnes as a mounted parasite
capacity.

39 x Nova-class Battleships (5.22 megatonnes).
Length: 660 meters
Beam: 450 meters
Height: 130 meters
Notes: The old Nova-class Battleships of the Romulan Starfleet have seen more usage since
the arrival of the Alliance. They have all been heavily upgraded, and are estimated to maintain
significant advantages over the D'Deridex type, matching the Federation Magellan-class, though
somewhat inferior to the Star Union-class in all respects. Though slower than the D'Deridex type,
their more compact shape means they are more manoeuvreable, somewhat like the immense Scimitars
of which they seem an early predecessor, and their hulls are definitely sturdier, retaining
for these ships a role they have held in the Romulan fleet since the Tomed Incident when they
were first seen by the Federation, and reflecting an excellence in design which started with
the Ael period in Romulan history.

457 x Type B (D’Deridex) class Warbirds (4.32 megatonnes).
Length: 1,042 meters
Beam: 772 meters
Height: 285 meters
Notes: The prototypical Romulan Warbird, and for us, Heavy Cruiser, of the Romulan Starfleet,
the D'Deridex is available in immense numbers, allowing the Romulan fleet to compare favourably
in tonnage to most fleets of similar regional powers in terms of its heavy-line combatants. Unlike
the Dominion fleet, which fared badly against the Alliance because of its paucity of heavy combatants
(though it was able to build ships fully comparable to and in fact larger than Superdreadnoughts in very
limited numbers--about six altogether, with one destroyed unfinished) the Romulan Starfleet offers the
prospect of being able through the D'Deridex design to go toe-to-toe with a significant number of Alliance
starship designs of heavy cruiser rate, in numbers which prevent an Alliance quantitative advantage in a
typical brushfire war in these types. The main drawback to the design is its bulk and ease of being targeted,
and the large empty spaces which create a weaker hull and less manouvreable design. To compensate for this,
however, the Romulans have begun a major upgrade cycle which has completed on about half the vessels in
the fleet. This includes a deletion of troop capacity in favour of dedicated troop transports, indicated
by the removal of certain structures on the hull, and what has been detected as increased shield capacity.
This is believed to be the result of enhancing the shield power, and presumably weapons power, though addition
of secondary M/AM power generators in previous habitation sections for the ten thousand troops and their equipment
this class was designed to embark and the extensive transporter banks for hot landings. The second and more
interesting development has been the addition of spaces where twelve gunboats of up to 6,000 tonnes and no less
than seventy-two small one man fighters have been embarked as part of a regular parasite compliment at docking
attachments within the large empty spaces in the hull (presumably allowed for by modifying the quantum singularity
fields with technology improvements since the design was begun) and on the ventral surface. This has been done
without impacting the warp capability of the ships, and means that the Romulans are employing their own starfighter
corps of no inconsiderable size and capacity, turning the D'Deridex type into Cruiser-Carriers reminiscent of
Soviet wet-navy designs of the 1970s and 1980s in most Terran histories. It is likely that the total capacity
has been underestimated; the hangar bays where assault landing craft for transporter-hostile environments were
embarked remain, but without troops almost certainly carry many one-man fighters, or armed cutters of comparable
size to the Peregrine and K'pak types of the UFP and KE respectively.

9 x Valdore II (Valdore) class Cruisers (3.95 megatonnes).
Length: 603.5 meters
Beam: 911.4 meters
Height: 100 meters
Notes: This is an apparent new version of the already very new Valdore type, and believed to
be the first vessels actually sighted of the class; the older Valdore Is were actually sighted
later and believed to be called the Mogai class. This bulkier, more heavily armoured variant of
the class is apparently designed as a swift and manouvreable heavy cruiser to be built in large
numbers to ultimately take on the direct combat role of the D'Deridex class while they are used
as cruiser-carriers. The earlier Mk. I design was a prototype which saw limited production, or
the Mk. II reflects upgrades incorporated after studying the result of the Dominion War.

75 x Valdore I (Mogai) class Cruisers (3.85 megatonnes).
Length: 603.5 meters
Beam: 911.4 meters
Height: 94 meters
Notes: See above.

519 x Type A (Amarcan) class Warbirds (3.4 megatonnes).
Length: 825 meters
Beam: 602 meters
Height: 207 meters
Notes: Resembling smaller versions of the D'Deridex class in virtually all respects, they serve
as large light cruiser compliments to that design. It is possible that the Valdore class is actually
intended as their replacements while a new and unseen larger class replaces the D'Deridex class in heavy
combat; regardless, like the D'Deridex class, the Type-As now sport a capacity for 72 parasite fighters
in the hollow internals of the hull, but can mount only 3 rather than 12 heavy gunboats, and likely have
no internal space for further light fighters or armed cutters.

102 x Condor (Ivarix) class Warbirds (3.4 megatonnes).
Length: 805 meters
Beam: 602 meters
Height: 207 meters
Notes: M/AM powered older version of the Type-As, they have been refitted in the same fashion,
but the lack of a Quantum Singularity means there is enough space for a further three heavy gunboats.

462 x Superhawk class Cruisers (2.2 megatonnes).
Length: 550 meters
Beam: 865 meters
Height: 80 meters
Notes: Precursor to the Type-As in design philosophy, this reliable and doughty
cruiser class has a suitable hullform for carrying 72 small light fighters, but
is not large enough to embark gunboats. This class is generally comparable to the
Excelsior type in the UFP and may have been upgraded in a similar fashion, which
would change the tonnage rating.

93 x Comet of Destruction class Cruisers (2.1 megatonnes).
Length: 215 meters
Beam: 375 meters
Height: 86 meters
Notes: This class was a competing class to the Superhawk class, and did not have a hullform
suitable for later Quantum Singularity power source development; its big wing-body design
is one of the more distinctive Romulan ships and it proved able to go toe-to-toe with the Excelsior
class at Tomed, which the Superhawk barely missed. The surviving ships of the class, never built
in the same numbers as the Superhawk, soldier on as one of the distant service patrol cruisers of the
Empire.

198 x Winged Defender class Cruisers (1.9 megatonnes).
Length: 200 meters
Beam: 356 meters
Height: 80 meters
Notes: Built as a budget version of the Comet of Destruction class, the Winged Defenders
reprise their role in the modern Romulan Starfleet.

318 x Hawk (D’Vorix) class Cruisers (1.7 megatonnes).
Length: 660 meters
Beam: 450 meters
Height: 150 meters
Notes: Seeing action at Tomed, this class of smaller cruisers remains import in the Romulan fleet
and has been modified to carry up to thirty-six small light fighters, likely so they can continue
to remain relevant as heavily armed Escort Carriers in any future conflict.

171 x V-5 (Skyfire) class Cruisers (1 megatonne).
Length: 225 meters
Beam: 320 meters
Height: 56 meters
Notes: These ships are very slow at warp speed and were designed to be used as internal garrison
cruisers. Older, faster cruisers pushed off the frontline have largely replaced them, and they are
now used exclusively in an anti-pirate role guarding merchant vessels on the fringes of the Empire,
and to show the flag in the Triangle region.

753 x Shirekral class Bird-of-Preys (800k tonnes).
Length: 250 meters
Beam: 273 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: Having a hullform based off of the old Birds of Prey originally seen
in border skirmishes along the Neutral Zone in the pre-Ael era, these vessels
were built as replacements in the post-Tomed era for the D-7s which the Romulans
had purchased from the Klingons during their brief alliance. They are the most
common large ship class in the Romulan Starfleet and serve as the workhorses
of the fleet in all light roles.

112 x D-7 (Stormbird) class Cruisers (700k tonnes).
Length: 246 meters
Beam: 160 meters
Height: 68 meters
Notes: These very elderly ships purchased from the Klingon Empire are all mothballed
or used for training.

168 x T-5 Fire Swarm class Destroyers (682k tonnes).
Length: 240 meters
Beam: 186 meters
Height: 53 meters
Notes: Built in Klingon yards to Romulan specifications, these durable and long-lasting ships
continue on in patrol and anti-pirate duties, often alongside the larger Shirekrals they
were meant to be replaced by.

462 x R-4 (Mularr) class combat Scouts (73k tonnes).
Length: 185 meters
Beam: 146 meters
Height: 37 meters
Notes: Designed as a replacement class for the D-12s, they were never quite built in sufficient
numbers to allow the decommissioning of all the D-12s due to the Romulan focus on much larger ships.

342 x D-12 class Bird-of-Preys (70k tonnes).
Length: 110 meters
Beam: 128 meters
Height: 22 meters
Notes: The Romulan design which inspired the Klingon Birds of Prey in all variants, the D-12
is a prototypical armed scout.

1,000 x Talon class Research/Tender Scout variant (59k tonnes).
Length: 110 meters
Beam: 96 meters
Height: 17 meters
Notes: These are very lightly armed vessels, fitted with the same firepower as the much smaller
6,000-ton heavy gunboats of the Starfleet, but equipped with a vast degree of heavy sensors, science
labs, and equipment for maintaining and deploying navigational bouys and probes. They are included
because of their limited combat ability in an emergency or for convoy escort and because they serve
in a role in the Romulan Starfleet which allows all other ships of the Starfleet to avoid the science labs
which equip all Federation Starfleet ships, while still retaining that as a fleet capability, unlike in
the current Klingon Empire where it is entirely neglected. It is believed these ships could be easily and
very rapidly upgraded to Lanora-type capabilities in the event of a major war, and many may already have been
to confront the threat of the ADN Stellar Navy.

1,150 x Talon (Lanora type) class combat Scouts (57k tonnes).
Length: 106 meters
Beam: 96 meters
Height: 16 meters
Notes: The most modern and basic combat scout of the Romulan fleet, these vessels are ubiqtuitous in
being provided to scout and support for large groupings of Warbirds, heavy cruisers, and larger vessels.


Gunboats and Fighters:

The Romulan Starfleet currently operates a 5,895 ton heavy gunboat design looking in some respects like
a much smaller version of the Talon-class armed with 2 light disruptor cannon and a torpedo launcher with 25
rounds. Around 10,500 are in service; their designation is not known. A smaller gunboat, the N-8 type, of about
5,000 tons, has about 12,000 in service and is armed with a very light pulse disruptor aft defensively, and
a single heavy starship-grade disruptor forward (though very slow firing), without a torpedo compliment.
The P-3 type cutters, of which also around 12,000 are in service, mass around 3,000 tons and have a single
light disruptor forward and two anti-personnel disruptor packs for ground attack and the capacity to carry
bombs and other anti-ground ordnance. The Scorpion-type fighter is built in two variants, one 4 meters by 1.5
by 1.5 meters, and one 6 meters by 1.5 by 1.5; these impulse-only fighters have one and two man crews respectively
(the later design is for training) and on the order of 100,000 are believed to exist, with extensive ground
squadrons on major worlds as well as the new and developing fleet compliments. They are all armed with a single
light disruptor and seem intended to take on Alliance fighters, having no anti-ship capabilities whatsoever.
The Romulans also field uprated warp shuttles armed with six very light disruptors and two micro-torpedo launchers
which are analogous to the combat-uprated Danube-type runabouts fielded by the UFP in the Dominion War as a
stopgap measure due to their lack of fighters. The number of warp shuttles fitted in this fashion is unknown.

Interesting. Most interesting. But I'm curious on one thing: the weaponry of the ships. The Romulans employ photon or plasma torpedoes? And these Scimitars have the radiation planet killer weapon or have replaced it with other disruptors and torpedo launchers?

Nice Romulan fleet description. I hope the Federation gets the SFC Yamato class, if anything Movie era deserves upgrading to TNG weapon standards that does.

And I'm curious to know if there's also the 'future' Galaxy from All Good Things (the Galaxy with three nacelles and a BIG gun).

United Federation of Planets Starfleet FOLLOWING Colonial defections in the Federation civil war of 2166 AST:

6 x Federation II-class command ships (15.5 megatonnes).
Length: 1,800 meters
Beam: 700 meters
Height: 750 meters
Notes: This class was originally designed as the replacements for
the Defender-class. They were inspired by the Excelsior class hullform
and scaled up from it in the same way the dimensions of the Defenders
were scaled up from the Constitution-class. Following existing Federation
design theory, instead of a larger number of battleships, a limited number
of huge command ships were to be built around which battle groups would
be formed relying on the qualitative superiourity of Federation heavy
cruisers when matched against similar vessels of their type to take down
big enemy battleships through joint operation and with the massive firepower
support of a Command ship and a couple large dreadnought types in the centre
of the formation. The class was never built due to Khitomer, but the plans
were dusted off after the Borg arrived and thoroughly upgraded, including
the addition of ablative armour and newer armour types in general, new
warp drives styled after those of the Sovereign class, and a totally new
weapons suite. These ships were ordered into serial production as the
Dominion threat ramped up. Six have been finished in time for the start
of the Federation Civil War and all remain in Federalist hands. Two more
are under construction and twelve additional ships were on order or in the
process of being laid down, all in Federalist space. These ships are armed
with nine full Galaxy-stype saucer phaser strips, three along the saucer edge,
three dorsal, and three ventral. Two more are mounted on the flanks of the
engineering hull, which resembles a doubled-up Excelsior hull. Two quadruple
pulse phaser turrets, each representing the full firepower of the forward guns
of a Defiant-class frigate, are mounted dorsal and ventral on the centre of the
saucer. Two more twin-pulse phaser turrets are mounted dorsal and ventral on
the engineering hull and another four, two to each side, are positioned there
as well. Twelve forward firing ten-round quantum torpedo launchers are fitted forward
on the engineering hull, and two more twin-pulse phaser turrets are fitted on the
neck between the Saucer and the engineering hull, capable of bearing to either broadside
but masked fore and aft to reflect a developing Starfleet recognition of the need to
make vessels able to engage more than in an end-on attack format. Two side-firing
10-round burst launchers for quantum torpedoes were also fitted to each side, and
two Galaxy-type phaser strips and four quantum torpedo launchers were fitted aft
on the engineering hull,able to fire aft to protect the after section of the ship.

8 x Defender-class command ships (12 megatonnes).
Length: 1,500 meters
Beam: 550 meters (nacelles incld).
Height: 550 meters (nacelles incld).
Notes: Once part of a class of 16 ships, the eight survivors
of the Defender class have been vastly upgraded to face off
against modern multiversal warships. These ships were once vast
central command ships used to direct the operation of entire fleets,
repair smaller starships, carrying huge numbers of troops and cargo,
fuel for resupplying the fleet (including anti-matter generation and
large stocks of dilithium crystal, and deuterium harvesting equipment)
and extensive assault craft, reserve shuttles, fighters, etc, in
addtion to the firepower of no less than three old Federation-class
dreadnoughts and immense amounts of armour and shielding. They were
upgraded on the same lines as the Constituion-class, save one ship lost
in a vicious fleet action with the Klingons which immediately preceded
the V'ger incident that prevented the outbreak of general war until Khitomer
brought peace, where the Klingon losses were immense (Klingon records of the
period indicate that the performance of this ship as well as the perceived ability
of the refitted Enterprise to single-handedly destroy three of its new K't'inga-
type cruisers without any damage indicated a considerable Federation technological
superiourity, causing them to back down from the opening stages of a war).
Eight ships of this class survived the decommissioning after Khitomer and years of
mothballs to become part of an upgrade programme following contact with the Borg.
In this upgrade programme the hulls were covered in ablative armour, new nacelles
were added to improve speed and efficiency, and cargo areas, troop areas, and landing
bays were used to add new power systems including immense new shield banks. The huge
planet-to-surface phaser batteries once mounted on the dorsal and ventral centres of the
saucer were replaced with turrets for four of the immensely powerful pulse phasers of the
Defiant-class each and the sixteen forward-firing torpedo tubes were upgraded to
10-round burst fire tubes of the type used on the Galaxy-class, fitted with quantum
torpedoes. Six of the full-sized phaser strips of the Galaxy-class were fitted, two dorsal
on the saucer and two ventral, with two on the saucer edges round out the fit.
The four aft torpedo tubes were similarly upgraded, and four forward-firing and
four aft-firing twin pulse mounts with limited traverse of the Defiant-class phaser
type were also mounted, giving the ships immense firepower. The deflector dishes
were replaced with new models, and the command facilities fully upgraded, though work
on these massive refits was not completed in time for these ships to see more than cursory
action in the Dominion War.

84 x Rigel-class explorers (5.8 megatonnes).
Length: 635 meters
Beam: 560 meters
Height: 166 meters
Notes: This class was a Millerist era design for long range exploration with very minimal
combat capabilities. With the recent militarization of Starfleet, these ships have been the only
large ships and only ships period other than the Oberth-class to remain in a traditional exploration
and research role, as despite their size they are totally unsuited for front-line combat.

12 x Star Union-class explorers (5.4 megatonnes).
Length: 685 meters
Beam: 480 meters
Height: 160 meters
Notes: The original design for the Galaxy-class during the Jirvshk-era was as a heavy combatant, not an explorer.
Miller ordered the re-design of these ships away from military aims. What the design bureau came up with was a
brand-new saucer section armed with just two large phaser banks. The original saucers, unfinished, were virtually
forgotten about in a mothball yard until the buildup toward the Dominion War, in which new engineering sections were
ordered while the "war saucers" were mated to them; the engineering section always being the battle section, with the
battle bridge, in the Galaxy-class, reflecting that it was built for combat while the saucer never had been. Instead of
two very large phaser strips these ships have six somewhat smaller ones, dorsal, ventral and centreline to each side.
Two photo torpedo tubes are right forward, and another tube is ventrally mounted in the centre of the hull in a similar
position to older ships' phaser battery domes. A fourth tube is mounted dorsally in place of the bridge, which is buried
deep into the hull. The engineering section is identical to that of the Galaxy-class, and the ship is somewhat slower,
but much better armoured.

4 x Leningrad-class dreadnoughts (5.4 megatonnes)
Length: 685 meters
Beam: 480 meters
Height: 160 meters
Notes: New-build Star Unions.

2 x Magellan-class explorers (5.2 megatonnes).
Length: 641 meters
Beam: 470 meters
Height: 145 meters
Notes: New-built "War Galaxies"; production halted in favour of Leningrad-class.

15 x Galaxy-class explorers (5.2 megatonnes).
Length: 641 meters
Beam: 470 meters
Height: 145 meters
Notes: All surviving Galaxy-class ships have been uprated to Magellan standard.

10 x Star Empire-class dreadnoughts (5.15 megatonnes).
Length: 700 meters.
Beam: 270 meters.
Height: 155 meters.
Notes: Hullform similar to the Excelsior-class except for the odd hexagonal
"saucer". These immense, heavy ships, built with technology broadly similar
to the Excelsior class, matched in firepower the old Defender-class command
ships, though being considerably less protected and having absolutely none
of the command, support, and assault functions of the larger ships, resulting
in major savings in mass. Two more of these ships were built and are in the hands
of the Colonials. In modern Federation service they are have been heavily upgraded
to match the firepower of the War Galaxy-type in every respect, with three new
nacelles of a Sovereign-type to give them approaching the same speed, and a
spray-on coat of ablative armour covering the entire hullform.

11 x Sovereign-class explorers (4.8 megatonnes).
Length: 680 meters
Beam: 240 meters
Height: 87 meters
Notes: Extremely modern frontline combat "explorer", far more manoeuvrable
than the larger Galaxy-class but with firepower similiar to their combat
types, though less than the Star Union class. They are in heavy serial production
and only extensive defections to the Colonials left their numbers so small in the
Federation fleet.

56 x Ambassador-class explorers (3.5 megatonnes).
Length: 526 meters
Beam: 320 meters
Height: 125 meters
Notes: Primary mainstay combat and exploration type, functions as a serviceable
if small heavy cruiser by multiversal standards.

74 x Nebula-class heavy cruisers (3.4 megatonnes) with war-pods.
Length: 443 meters
Beam: 319 meters
Height: 131 meters.
Notes: superiour to the Ambassador class when fitted with a war pod,
as all have been, this class is the prototypical Federation heavy cruiser
and after Dominion War era upgrades compares favourably to smaller and older
heavy cruisers of multiversal powers.

143 x Niagara-class heavy cruisers (3.3 megatonnes).
Length: 443 meters
Beam: 260 meters
Height: 130 meters
Notes: These cruisers are geared two high-speed reconaissance in combat
roles and are generally inferior to even the smallest and oldest of cruisers
of this rate from other powers, though they can stand up to a fleet action.

191 x Akira-class heavy cruisers (3.1 megatonnes).
Length: 465 meters
Beam: 317 meters
Height: 87.5 meters
Notes: Basically missile cruisers, the awesome inclusion of no less than 15 torpedo tubes,
now fitted for firing quantum torpedoes, means that as long as its magazines have torpedoes
in them, it can stand up to any of the largest Alliance heavy cruisers, using manoeuvrability
to pound them with torpedoes while avoiding counterfire. Once the torpedoes have been exhausted,
however, it has only three phaser arrays and is lightly protected, leaving them at a severe
disadvantage.

12 x Luna-class heavy cruisers (2.6 megatonnes)
Length: 450 meters
Beam: 230 meters
Height: 120 meters
Notes: Same class as destroyed Riker's Titan. Intended as a replacement for the Excelsior-class,
just beginning extensive serial production. Rated as heavy cruisers by the Federation, they are
a solid light cruiser design by any other standard.

512 x Excelsior-class heavy cruisers (2.5 megatonnes)
Length: 471 meters
Beam: 187 meters
Height: 105 meters.
Notes: All have been upgraded to Lakota-subtype standards and are decent stalwart light cruisers
in this role despite their age by multiversal standards.

58 x Freedom-class heavy cruisers (2.2 megatonnes).
Length: 453 meters
Beam: 231.6 meters
Height: 119 meters
Notes: Heavy cruisers with a single nacelle intended for internal patrol; function as light cruisers
by multiversal standards and are acceptable in such a role, if strategically mediocre due to very slow
cruising speed.

60 x Defiance-class heavy cruisers (2.1 megatonnes).
Length: 339 meters
Beam: 140 meters
Height: 59 meters
Notes: Competing design to the Excelsior type built in smaller numbers, these ships have been
similarly upgraded. Sometimes called the Defender-class, but the lead ship was renamed Defiance
when the Defender-class command ships were recommissioned. All functional notes for the Excelsior
type are equally applicable here.

54 x Titan-class heavy cruisers (2.1 megatonnes)
Length: 415 meters
Beam: 163 meters
Height: 64 meters
Notes: Non-parasite design based off of Prometheus-class (class nameship destroyed in
Dominion war, replaced by Luna-class Titan). This design, with only four warp engines
and no ability to separate, was built as a budget class in the Dominion War when the
Prometheus class was found to be unnecessarily complex and effectively worthless in its
attack mode.

13 x Prometheus-class parasite cruisers (2.1 megatonnes).
Length: 415 meters
Beam: 163 meters
Height: 64 meters
Notes: Failed parasite cruiser design, these ships are typically simply employed as three
separate vessels in all circumstances to gain the most utilization out of them. Production
has been halted in favour of the Titan-class.

136 x Cheyenne-class light cruisers (1.4 megatonnes).
Length: 394 meters
Beam: 250 meters
Height: 113 meters
Notes: Extremely fast fleet scout which compares acceptably to most other very small light
cruisers of the multiverse.

45 x Griffin-class light cruisers (1.3 megatonnes).
Length: 409 meters
Beam: 133 meters
Height: 66 meters
Notes: Abortion of a "Frankenstein" design built as an emergency measure in the Dominion War.
Scarcely stacks up to a destroyer in combat capability.

43 x Challenger-class light cruisers (1 megatonne).
Length: 394 meters
Beam: 264 meters
Height: 115 meters
Notes: Comparable to foreign destroyer leaders only.

37 x Brenton-class old cruisers (1 megatonne).
Length: 275 meters
Beam: 250 meters
Height: 55 meters
Notes: Elderly heavy cruisers new built around the time of the Enterprise refit series and
mothballed until the Dominion War crisis. Of marginal combat value.

40 x Republic-class old cruisers (950k tons)
Length: 320 meters
Beam: 145 meters
Height: 78 meters
Notes: Constitution-refit type newbuilds (all originals have been scrapped or are museums).
Reactivated as stopgap measure in the Dominion War.

28 x Durett-class old cruisers (608k tons).
Length: 240 meters
Beam: 132 meters
Height: 75 meters
Notes: Elderly Constitution refit-era cruiser class which remained in reserve right up until the civil war.
The ships only have one nacelle and are quite slow and suitable for defensive support of shipyards
and starbases only.

559 x Miranda-class old cruisers (600k tons).
Length: 230 meters
Beam: 128 meters
Height: 51 meters
Notes: Elderly cruiser class which scarcely approaches modern destroyers in capability
but remains a mainstay of the Federation fleet.

19 x Andor-class old cruisers (600k tons).
Length: 235 meters
Beam: 125 meters
Height: 55 meters
Notes: Competing design to the Miranda-class; all notes there apply here also.

311 x Gage-class destroyers (950k tons).
Length: 320 meters
Beam: 128 meters
Height: 63.5 meters
Notes: Standard Federation destroyer design. Dates from the Ambassador era and stands up well
with most multiversal heavy destroyers.

288 x Apollo-class destroyers (930k tons).
Length: 300 meters
Beam: 130 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: Older heavy destroyer built as a response to the Tomed Incident. Remains a fleet workhouse.

456 x New Orleans-class destroyers (900k tons).
Length: 350 meters
Beam: 290 meters
Height: 83 meters
Notes: Galaxy-class contemporary mainline fleet destroyer.

435 x Centaur-class destroyers (870k tons).
Length: 382 meters
Beam: 230 meters
Height: 58.5 meters
Notes: Second destroyer design of the Ambassador era with more of a gearing
toward fleet scouting, slightly predates the larger screen-intended Gage class,
but more modern than the Apollo's.

76 x Intrepid-class destroyers (700k tons).
Length: 343 meters
Beam: 133 meters
Height: 66 meters.
Notes: Originally designated scouts and then re-designated destroyers to better reflect
their role in the fleet, these highly modern ships were on the frontline in the Dominion War
and many defected to the Colonials, leaving their numbers small, but mass serial production
means that dozens are under construction in Federalist systems.

84 x Trident-class destroyers (660k tons).
Length: 350 meters
Beam: 180 meters
Height: 135 meters
Notes: High-speed destroyers with a saucer which in miniature is an imitation of the Federation II-class
saucer, these vessels were designed pre-Khitomer and built in limited numbers in the drawdown following
Khitomer but before Tomed as new destroyers to support the Excelsior-class heavy cruisers. They remain
highly servicable and have been upgraded with Lakota-style upgrades to maintain their combat fitness.

268 x Springfield-class destroyers (650k tons).
Length: 289 meters
Beam: 487 meters
Height: 76 meters
Notes: Fitted with a "war pod" like the Nebulas, these precursors to the Nebula and Galaxy classes
are highly serviceable small combat destroyers.

35 x Triumph-class destroyers (640k tons).
Length: 300 meters
Beam: 170 meters
Height: 70 meters
Notes: Older destroyer design but still servicable in that role.

299 x Norway-class destroyers (622k tons).
Length: 365 meters
Beam: 225.5 meters
Height: 52.5 meters
Notes: Highly modern 2360s vintage combat destroyers of excellent serviceability.

201 x Baker-class destroyers (600k tons).
Length: 230 meters
Beam: 130 meters
Height: 45 meters
Notes: Very large destroyer-leader type built around the same time as the Excelsior class, these vessels
were considered not suitable for extensive upgrades but soldier on due to necessity.

31 x Constellation-class old destroyers (600k tons).
Length: 231 meters
Beam: 135 meters
Height: 65 meters
Notes: Elderly, Constitution refit-era cruisers built as a fast scouting design to compliment the Miranda-class
and then downrated to destroyers in light of their weak firepower. Wholly obsolescent, they have only been
pressed into service with the start of the civil war.

132 x Soyuz-class old destroyers (590k tons).
Length: 243 meters
Beam: 150 meters
Height: 63 meters
Notes: Stripped down patrol variant of the Miranda class built
post-Khitomer as a budget design and rerated down to destroyers.
Not effective in modern fleet engagements.

101 x Wilkerson-class old destroyers (450k tons).
Length: 240 meters
Beam: 150 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: Elderly Constitution refit-vintage fleet screening destroyers reactivated
due to the civil war.

140 x Kiev-class frigates (425k tons).
Length: 275 meters
Beam: 125 meters
Height: 50 meters
Notes: Late Constitution-refit design of very large frigates which have held up well to the stresses
of time and were used in the Dominion War after being reactivated from mothballs.

62 x Babcock-class frigates (400k tons).
Length: 315 meters
Beam: 140 meters
Height: 50 meters
Notes: Elderly constitution-refit era frigate design reactivated for the civil war.

182 x Polaris-class frigates (390k tons).
Length: 232.5 meters
Beam: 139.5 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: Constitution-refit era light frigate, obsolete but still in regular service up to the present.

327 x Steamrunner-class frigates (375k tons).
Length: 244 meters
Beam: 160 meters
Height: 40 meters
Notes: Very modern light attack frigates.

361 x Defiant-class frigates (355k tons).
Length: 187 meters
Beam: 139 meters
Height: 32 meters
Notes: Pre-eminent short range assault frigates of the Federation in serial mass production
with more than 100 building to replace Dominion War losses and defections to the Colonials.

77 x Chandley-class frigates (355k tons).
Length: 280 meters
Beam: 180 meters
Height: 45 meters
Notes: Elderly light frigates reactivated for the civil war.

723 x Swift-class frigates (340k tons).
Length: 205 meters
Beam: 250 meters
Height: 45 meters
Notes: Extended cruise capability upgraded Saber-class.

781 x Saber-class frigates (320k tons).
Length: 190 meters
Beam: 250 meters
Height: 41 meters
Notes: Very modern light frigates.

624 x Saladin II-class frigates (310k tons).
Length: 245 meters
Beam: 128 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: Ambassador-era vintage light frigates.

264 x Skipjack-class frigates (305k tons).
Length: 240 meters
Beam: 125 meters
Height: 60 meters
Notes: Excelsior vintage old light frigates of some limited remaining caapbility.

382 x Genser-class escorts (133k tons).
Length: 180 meters
Beam: 120 meters
Height: 45 meters
Notes: Tomed-era budget combat scout.

631 x Nova-class scouts (127k tons).
Length: 165 meters
Beam: 62 meters
Height: 34 meters
Notes: Modern combat-oriented replacement for the Oberth class.

276 x Remora-class scouts (120k tons).
Length: 210 meters
Beam: 170 meters
Height: 60 meters (incld nacelle pylon).
Notes: Elderly combat-oriented scout design. Reactivated for civil war.

2,179 Oberth-class scouts (94k tons).
Length: 150 meters
Beam: 87 meters
Height: 41 meters
Notes: Elderly science and exploration-based scouts which are not used for fleet actions
and instead are used to maintain a federation presence in distant systems and to continue
scientific missions in wartime.

103 x Ranger-class scouts (64k tons).
Length: 87 meters
Beam: 57 meters
Height: 21 meters
Notes: Very elderly light scouts of little use, but reactivated during the civil war as an emergency
measure anyway.


Gunboats and fighters:

About 20,000 Peregrine very light gunboats are in service, and some 3,000 armed Danube-type Runabouts with multirole weapons pods. A tendency toward fielding more and more heavily armed shuttles is also apparent, usually designed by regional commands as mission-specific and built with replicator parts, but these do not compare even to the small Romulan dedicated fighters, let alone true interstellar combat fighters.

*winces* Do the Klingons have any plans for something in the sub megaton range that isn't OLD? And wouldn't it make sense to officially re-designate the Defiant class after the lead ship . . . well the lead ship's reincarnation defected? Morale reasons and all that?

What is TGG, where can I find the start of it, and is all of this archived somewhere like daltonator?

Ender wrote:What is TGG, where can I find the start of it, and is all of this archived somewhere like daltonator?

It's part of a series of works based on a multiverse of transdimensional universes, including some new ones, with a broad and yet to be revealed metaplot. All the stories about it are marked TGG or Wyoidc here and on SB.com, but we are still putting together a permanent archive.

Can you give a brief summary of the Federation Civil War, so I can understand what was being referred to in the UFP Starfleet section?

There's two stories by Steve about it, one finished and one in progress, posted on the board so far.

Sidewinder wrote:Can you give a brief summary of the Federation Civil War, so I can understand what was being referred to in the UFP Starfleet section?

Better yet, you can read about it yourself.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Vehrec wrote:*winces* Do the Klingons have any plans for something in the sub megaton range that isn't OLD? And wouldn't it make sense to officially re-designate the Defiant class after the lead ship . . . well the lead ship's reincarnation defected? Morale reasons and all that?

This is a foreign publication, so it would use the old name regardless. And the Klingon economy has been in the crapper since the Praxis disaster. Their key energy source production facilities were over-centralized there and entirely destroyed and the economy of the Empire was focused toward keeping their homeworld habitable after massive ecological damage that required them to demobilize most of their military to afford the huge cost of saving the planet, and even then they still needed Federation aid in the early stages to temporarily evacuate some of the population and begin immediate measures to preserve the atmosphere.

Then Azetbur was assassinated by traditionalists who took over the government and went through Klingon society like Iranian Ayatollahs through the Shah's, which further depressed the economy, and resulted in a craptastic fleet philosophy which entirely favoured bird of prey variants. Combined with the need for economy in building the fleet, a series of utterly incompetent designs were thus instituted for the fleet, meaning that the Klingon fleet was by the time Gowron took over a collection of useless pre-Praxis event rustbuckets and some scaled-up BOPs of marginal combat value and extreme engineering issues, with only the B'rel class as the effective warships. And that situation has only been partially rectified by the Negh'var and Vor'cha now, with a lot of work to go which was hampered by the quasi-civil war that followed. The cleansing of the Klingon homeworld has only recently been finished, and the economy has only really started to recover since the opening of trade with the Alliance. The Dominion War further delayed fleet improvement measures by forcing the Klingons to concentrate on building existing designs instead of starting up manufacturing for new ones, and meant that they basically had to beg the Alliance for help in upgrading and repairing their elderly heavyweight ships as a far-from-ideal stopgap measure.

So, the Klingons will wait decades to construct serious ships... And Dominion and Colonials?
BTW, I have a question on Federation ships: the Star Unions and Leningrads are the Galaxy Flight 3 of the fanfic? And are similar to the three-nacelled Enterprise-D from AGT?

damm I am Impressed However with the Romulan Fleet Buildup, amazing it seems their emphasis on Large Warships but lacking in numbers seems to have be vincdicated thanks to the alliance.

This seems really impressive as I always regarded the Large D’Deridex warbirds to be the equals of ther much smaller Vorcha cruisers and nothing to match the Negh’Var, which is again only half the size of any of the warbirds, Did the Romulans had any advances in tech, as the large size of their heavy ships seems to add nothing to their power versus their much smaller Klingon counterparts.

lord Martiya wrote:So, the Klingons will wait decades to construct serious ships... And Dominion and Colonials?
BTW, I have a question on Federation ships: the Star Unions and Leningrads are the Galaxy Flight 3 of the fanfic? And are similar to the three-nacelled Enterprise-D from AGT?

No, they're not remotely that. They're actually the original design for the Galaxy-class from under the days of President Jivrshk. He was a Stalin like figure who died before he was able to completely consolidate power, and attempted rearming Starfleet after the negative influences of the Ideologue Party's Pax wing had seriously damaged its military capabilities and reduced its standing. The succeeding President, however, Deborah Miller, was a Pax wing member and ordered the redesign of the class to more peaceful aims. The ships were already so far advanced at that point that the solution was simply to build a brand-new saucer section devoted to exploration and other peaceful functions with a minimum armament, and attach it to the existing engineering hulls. The larger, heavier, "war saucers" then under construction were abandoned in some corner of the shipyards and left until the present series of crises, where they were finished and upgraded and mated with brand-new engineering hulls.

starfury wrote:damm I am Impressed However with the Romulan Fleet Buildup, amazing it seems their emphasis on Large Warships but lacking in numbers seems to have be vincdicated thanks to the alliance.

This seems really impressive as I always regarded the Large D’Deridex warbirds to be the equals of ther much smaller Vorcha cruisers and nothing to match the Negh’Var, which is again only half the size of any of the warbirds, Did the Romulans had any advances in tech, as the large size of their heavy ships seems to add nothing to their power versus their much smaller Klingon counterparts.

The D'Deridex is unquestionably more the equal of the Negh'Var. Remember that the huge 5.28 million tonne D'tai's were required to scare off the Romulan warbird force in the one episode with the defector, and that the Romulans repeatedly brought one warbird to confrontations with the Enterprise in a rather confident fashion. Three were enough to simply order it to surrender, and the situation would have been impossible if those two huge Klingon D'tai's hadn't been lurking cloaked.

The Romulan design philosophy has indeed been vindicated, because it means they actually have enough large ships to stand up to a major force from outside of the ST-3 universe where many ships mount cannon capable of demolishing things like a Bird of Prey with only a couple of hits, which makes the N-squared law (in suitable modification) begin to get brutally effective and guarantee victory for the heavies. Basically, if you're removing some of the enemy's firepower with each hit by actually destroying a vessel while their fire is doing damage but it's soaked up by redundant systems on large ships, you'll start to have a cascading effect of increasing and increasing damage done to the smaller and smaller number of the little vessels while less and less is done to the large ships which require more to destroy over the course of the engagement. This can end in very lopsided results, as the Cardassian war of the ADN proved.

The D'Deridex is unquestionably more the equal of the Negh'Var. Remember that the huge 5.28 million tonne D'tai's were required to scare off the Romulan warbird force in the one episode with the defector, and that the Romulans repeatedly brought one warbird to confrontations with the Enterprise in a rather confident fashion. Three were enough to simply order it to surrender, and the situation would have been impossible if those two huge Klingon D'tai's hadn't been lurking cloaked

For a long time I was under the impression that the Romulan D'Deridex was so underpowered for such large and advanced ship, that I began to have seriously belive that warbird is barely equal to the Vorcha. and Would be slaughtered by Negh'var and Sovereign vessels. mainly because almost every trek sites seems to deliberately give that impression.

The Romulans have around 2,700 ships that mass more than a megatonne. The Klingons have about 650. So while the numerical strength of the Klingon and Federation fleets is much greater, the 7,000+ ships of the Romulan Starfleet arguably exceed them in throw-weight, with the proviso being that the UFP had definite superiourity before the civil war; not now, of course, but for obvious reasons.

At some point I'll do estimates on the strength of Tal Shiar independent military forces and those of the Ship Clans and Coril (which collectively push the fleet numbers from around 6,500 into the 7,000's), but far less ideas on their strength exist in the multiverse. I'm probably just going to co-associate the Remans with the Coril to get rid of that obnoxious idea, as ch'Rihan and ch'Havran are exclusively Romulan worlds, as is the system designated "Remus" on the Federation maps of the TOS-era which contains the double-planet Rav's and Rom'lasz (note that during the Earth-Romulan war the Romulans engaged in intentional deception which led Earth to conclude that Coril was the Romulan homeworld and Remus the main secondary colony system. For Remus, that was true. The Federation only discovered later after the Enterprise's spying mission in which a cloaking device--and a Romulan commander to be interrogated--were recovered that there was a second double-planet system further into Romulan space which had never been found before, and these worlds were the twin capitals of the Romulan Star Empire; the terminology of Romulus and Remus then migrated to refer to these worlds rather than to the "Remus" system and Coril.)

The current Romulan history (trying to put together about half a dozen divergent versions) is that the Remus system was settled first by the refugees who simply couldn't bear to continue the journey. The rest continued on to the Romulus system where they settled on ch'Rihan and ch'Havran. Both promptly degenerated into warring infighting for a while while the Coril, between them, developed primitive gravito-magnetic drives capable of around Warp 3.5 equivalent or so (part of the way of rationalizing the infamous Spock's Brain episode, the use by the Romulan Bird of Prey of FTL power in the TOS neutral zone episode when it was said to not be warp capable, and, of course, conveniently used in the Taloran tech paradigm too). The Coril founded a small star nation and then the Romulans, who'd developed the drives independently, came back to try an contact their long-lost cousins over on Rav's and Rom'lasz, and started transiting through the Coril nation that had sprung up in the meantime. The Remus system's inhabitants had in the meanwhile been stable enough to send a slower-than-light colonization effort to the nearby planet Mandukam, and when contacted were fairly easily reintegrated into Romulan society. The problem of being separated by the Coril inevitably led to tensions and a war.

The Romulans were victorious and subdued the Coril, just in time for Earth ships to start poking around Mandukam and Romulus. In the war that followed the Romulans (Rihannsu) gained proper Warp drive tech but also were forced to grant extensive autonomy to the Coril, who to the present maintain their own self-government and limited fleet of small patrol ships. ch'Rihan and ch'Havran's ship-clans had in the meantime settled two nearby planets: Perhonies and Gorwah. Several other minor worlds of less ideal conditions between Romulus and Coril had scientific installations, and that was it. The Romulans, however, fought Earth to a stalemate, and settled with garrisons many more planets along the nearby strip that became the neutral zone. They then began break-neck expansion to the galactic "south" which culminated in a brief stalemated war with the Klingons as both Empires colonized past each other, creating a large area of disputed space which was resolved through the treaties of dentente that briefly created the Klingon-Romulan allinace. The Federation prevented a similar settlement of boundaries in the Triangle area, which remained independent. The Romulans at this point had overrun about 14 species, most very primitive, who because of their new-found power were easily subdued into a position of unquestioned subservience, rather than the special relationship with the Coril necessitated by the Earth war, and thus beginning the proper period of imperial dominance in Romulan history.

Readed your answer, I have another a question: what's a Galaxy Flight 3 is supposed to be? And, turning to Romulans, their Scimitars here have the infamous Thalaron weapon or traded it for more numerous or more powerful classic weaponry? And they use plasma or photon torpedoes?

starfury wrote:

The D'Deridex is unquestionably more the equal of the Negh'Var. Remember that the huge 5.28 million tonne D'tai's were required to scare off the Romulan warbird force in the one episode with the defector, and that the Romulans repeatedly brought one warbird to confrontations with the Enterprise in a rather confident fashion. Three were enough to simply order it to surrender, and the situation would have been impossible if those two huge Klingon D'tai's hadn't been lurking cloaked

For a long time I was under the impression that the Romulan D'Deridex was so underpowered for such large and advanced ship, that I began to have seriously belive that warbird is barely equal to the Vorcha. and Would be slaughtered by Negh'var and Sovereign vessels. mainly because almost every trek sites seems to deliberately give that impression.

I think that they're very biased on Federation side. For what I always thinked, the D'Deridex is a sort of armed carried-troop transport, with relatively small weaponry because it's biased to trasport fighters and/or troops but with weapons enough to wipe out a Galaxy with disruptors or plasma torpedoes. And I was happy when Nemesis unveiled a littler ship (the Valdore-type) apparently constructed as a true battleship (according to the producers the Valdore-type has heavier disruptors, so the intention is this) and another true battleship of D'Deridex's size.

lord Martiya wrote:Readed your answer, I have another a question: what's a Galaxy Flight 3 is supposed to be? And, turning to Romulans, their Scimitars here have the infamous Thalaron weapon or traded it for more numerous or more powerful classic weaponry? And they use plasma or photon torpedoes?

starfury wrote:

The D'Deridex is unquestionably more the equal of the Negh'Var. Remember that the huge 5.28 million tonne D'tai's were required to scare off the Romulan warbird force in the one episode with the defector, and that the Romulans repeatedly brought one warbird to confrontations with the Enterprise in a rather confident fashion. Three were enough to simply order it to surrender, and the situation would have been impossible if those two huge Klingon D'tai's hadn't been lurking cloaked

For a long time I was under the impression that the Romulan D'Deridex was so underpowered for such large and advanced ship, that I began to have seriously belive that warbird is barely equal to the Vorcha. and Would be slaughtered by Negh'var and Sovereign vessels. mainly because almost every trek sites seems to deliberately give that impression.

I think that they're very biased on Federation side. For what I always thinked, the D'Deridex is a sort of armed carried-troop transport, with relatively small weaponry because it's biased to trasport fighters and/or troops but with weapons enough to wipe out a Galaxy with disruptors or plasma torpedoes. And I was happy when Nemesis unveiled a littler ship (the Valdore-type) apparently constructed as a true battleship (according to the producers the Valdore-type has heavier disruptors, so the intention is this) and another true battleship of D'Deridex's size.

Remember that the Alliance of Democratic Nations has used extremely large strategic weapons both ship and bomber mounted to annihilate planetary economies before, so the Romulan deployment of the Thalaron weapon on the Scimitar-class ships stands as a reasonable arrangement, when combined with their very modern and highly enhanced cloaking devices (to counter ADN anti-cloak sensors), allowing them to function, in addition to heavy combat vessels, in a strategic strike role to provide some retaliatory capability to the Romulan Star Empire and thereby prevent the Alliance from launching such strikes with impunity.

The armament consists of 52 disruptors, which limits their power when being fired simultaneously and are clearly intended as one-hit, one (or multi)-kill anti-fighter weapons on rapid track mounts with the most sophisticated targeting and tracking sensors the Romulans can provide and a wide-beam feature so that several fighters could be hit and destroyed by a single shotgun-like burst. These disruptors are reasonably effective in an anti-ship role though hardly the most powerful that could have been fitted, quantity being referred to quality here to deal with the threat of starfighters which so savaged the Cardassian and Dominion fleets. The next portion of the armament are 27 torpedo launchers, which twelve round bursts in the space of second or two to flood space with hundreds of quantum torpedoes (which the Romulans are now deploying). As these can easily be fired while cloaked it means that the Scimitar is intended to, with vast missile banks of close to a thousand rounds per launcher, launch hit-and-run attacks on heavier Alliance warships, evading counterfire quickly after launching upwards of 300 torpedoes at once from an unexpected quarter.

The final weapon fitted to the ship is the traditional plasma torpedo launcher, of the most advanced type (with some steering through plasma venting from the containment field), which uses so much power, however, that the Scimitar must decloak to fire it. This weapon is considered a "finisher" when the targeted ship has already been weakened by mass torpedo salvos. A small compliment of 72 tiny one-man light fighters of the type seen in Nemesis are also included, but the main cruiser-carriers of the new Romulan fleet are the refitted D'Deridexes.

So the ship is designed for hit-and-run attrition attacks using missiles, which confer disproportionate firepower for as long as their magazines are not exhausted. In this way it can engage much larger Alliance warships successfully, if properly handled. The Thalaron weapon is a strategic device fitted to provide retaliatory capability in light of the Alliance strategic attack forces.

Have you still got the SFB / SFC / KA trend of the really big Fed and Klingon ships having more nacelles (e.g. the Federation-I class having three and the various SFC battleships having four to six)? Or do the Defender and Federation classes only have two each?

Starglider wrote:Have you still got the SFB / SFC / KA trend of the really big Fed and Klingon ships having more nacelles (e.g. the Federation-I class having three and the various SFC battleships having four to six)? Or do the Defender and Federation classes only have two each?

The Defender and Federation classes have four nacelles, the Rigel and Star Empire classes have three.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:

lord Martiya wrote:Readed your answer, I have another a question: what's a Galaxy Flight 3 is supposed to be? And, turning to Romulans, their Scimitars here have the infamous Thalaron weapon or traded it for more numerous or more powerful classic weaponry? And they use plasma or photon torpedoes?

starfury wrote: For a long time I was under the impression that the Romulan D'Deridex was so underpowered for such large and advanced ship, that I began to have seriously belive that warbird is barely equal to the Vorcha. and Would be slaughtered by Negh'var and Sovereign vessels. mainly because almost every trek sites seems to deliberately give that impression.

I think that they're very biased on Federation side. For what I always thinked, the D'Deridex is a sort of armed carried-troop transport, with relatively small weaponry because it's biased to trasport fighters and/or troops but with weapons enough to wipe out a Galaxy with disruptors or plasma torpedoes. And I was happy when Nemesis unveiled a littler ship (the Valdore-type) apparently constructed as a true battleship (according to the producers the Valdore-type has heavier disruptors, so the intention is this) and another true battleship of D'Deridex's size.

Remember that the Alliance of Democratic Nations has used extremely large strategic weapons both ship and bomber mounted to annihilate planetary economies before, so the Romulan deployment of the Thalaron weapon on the Scimitar-class ships stands as a reasonable arrangement, when combined with their very modern and highly enhanced cloaking devices (to counter ADN anti-cloak sensors), allowing them to function, in addition to heavy combat vessels, in a strategic strike role to provide some retaliatory capability to the Romulan Star Empire and thereby prevent the Alliance from launching such strikes with impunity.

The armament consists of 52 disruptors, which limits their power when being fired simultaneously and are clearly intended as one-hit, one (or multi)-kill anti-fighter weapons on rapid track mounts with the most sophisticated targeting and tracking sensors the Romulans can provide and a wide-beam feature so that several fighters could be hit and destroyed by a single shotgun-like burst. These disruptors are reasonably effective in an anti-ship role though hardly the most powerful that could have been fitted, quantity being referred to quality here to deal with the threat of starfighters which so savaged the Cardassian and Dominion fleets. The next portion of the armament are 27 torpedo launchers, which twelve round bursts in the space of second or two to flood space with hundreds of quantum torpedoes (which the Romulans are now deploying). As these can easily be fired while cloaked it means that the Scimitar is intended to, with vast missile banks of close to a thousand rounds per launcher, launch hit-and-run attacks on heavier Alliance warships, evading counterfire quickly after launching upwards of 300 torpedoes at once from an unexpected quarter.

The final weapon fitted to the ship is the traditional plasma torpedo launcher, of the most advanced type (with some steering through plasma venting from the containment field), which uses so much power, however, that the Scimitar must decloak to fire it. This weapon is considered a "finisher" when the targeted ship has already been weakened by mass torpedo salvos. A small compliment of 72 tiny one-man light fighters of the type seen in Nemesis are also included, but the main cruiser-carriers of the new Romulan fleet are the refitted D'Deridexes.

So the ship is designed for hit-and-run attrition attacks using missiles, which confer disproportionate firepower for as long as their magazines are not exhausted. In this way it can engage much larger Alliance warships successfully, if properly handled. The Thalaron weapon is a strategic device fitted to provide retaliatory capability in light of the Alliance strategic attack forces.

Oh, well... Where can I join the Romulan military for embark on a Scimitar?