StarDestroyer.Net BBS

This thread is for discussing everything between the end of RotJ to the beginning of Vector Prime. From now on, please direct all ideas and arguments to this thread instead of the one in PSW. Thank you.

This has been posted in both the EUFic thread in the Pure Starwars section of the site. But it is also being posted here as a sort of idea point. Its not really in a fully edited and organized, with citation, style, rather its in a rambling needing to make a point style. Modifications can be made later on if need be. Thoughts are of course welcome.

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I was just thinking about something. Okay, the Imperial Military seems to be divided into two broad categories - the Standing Forces and the Mobile Forces.

The Standing Forces are those military units assigned to a particular sector, over sector, or region of the Galaxy. They can operate within that territory but not beyond it.

The Mobile Forces are Imperial-wide military units and can operate anywhere their commander feels the need (and possesses the authority to go). These forces (such as the fleet assigned to Darth Vader) are designed to aid in the defense and protection of the entire Empire.

Another point to be made is that while sectors include the mile-long star destroyer they do not routinely include larger ships in the Imperial forces. Though, as with most things, there are exceptions. On the otherhand, super star destroyers (of whatever make and model) are routinely assigned as the command forces of the Mobile Forces due to their importance and majesty.

Now, here is a thought. Wouldn't it be somewhat likely that once the Empire falls apart after Endor the events of both forces are somewhat different. I mean a Standing Force would probably just stay in their assigned territory without worry. While the Mobile Forces would either move to a territory and merge with it or would continue to travel around the galaxy doing what they wish.

Another thought is the organization of the territorial units of the galaxy. While the units of sector, oversector, and region are canon I think there should be others. First of all, in some documents the oversector is actually written as Priority Sector which means that it technically is just a sector. Which means couldn't we create something called Subordiante Sectors, also known as subsectors.

The idea would be that the subsector is what contains the 50 inhabited star systems that the Imperial Sourcebook talks about. Each subsector would be part of a Regular Sector which could contain dozens, scores, or hundreds of subsectors. Regular sectors themselves are part of regions and sometimes (though it seems not always) part of oversectors.

As written by Illuminatus Primus, the term of region itself also cotnains within the single overarching group multiple divisons. This being the Galactic Region, the Greater Regions, and the Lesser Regions. That way we could have a region of ten worlds or a region of 1 million worlds (if we wanted).

As also mentioned, within the broad authority of the Galactic Republic or Galactic Empire was actually more than one galaxy. The main Alpha Galaxy as well as a dozen or so auxiliary galaxies that are probably quite small compared to the main galaxy. Trade, travel, government and continued contact exists between the main and most of the galaxies.

Some foreign galaxies are considered under the control of their own governments and do not hold allegiance to the Galactic Republic or Empire (or its successor). A perfect example (as mentioned by Darth Hoth) is the 'galaxy' of the Chiss. They are thus technically 'galactic' in scope because they own a galaxy, it just that there galaxy is so much smaller. So when they say that they are facing a threat of galactic proportions they mean their galaxy, not the main one. It also allows the idea of the Hand of Thrawn taking over a huge span of territory that no body knew of - that territory is in a nearby galaxy that spins around the main galaxy.

I wouldn't have a problem with making the Outer Rim Territories be both the rim of the main galaxy as well as the territory of some of the most well known additional galaxies. Wild Space itself is the stars and planets that exist either between the galaxies or that lie in other minor galaxies and have not been truly contacted or brought into the main galactic civilization.

All Terrain Battle Transport

The All Terrain Battle Transport is an ultra-heavy, hexapedal assault walker produced by Kuat Drive Yards, in association with Rothana Heavy Engineering. It is the largest, most well armed and heavily armored walker in existence; designed for full-scale sieges on planetary targets. Apart from its size, the AT-BT is notable for its hypermatter reactor and capital ship-grade weapons, armor and shielding. It has been described (more or less accurately) as a "walking Star Monitor". Indeed, while larger siege engines exist, all are repulsorlift airships. Anything larger would be, in the words of High General Kolenka Telyanin, "under Starfleet jurisdiction".

The AT-BT was desgined by Rothana Heavy Engineering during the Clone Wars, intended to supplement the lighter AT-HE, but did not enter mass production and service with the Imperial Army until 18 rS. For its first twenty years of service, the AT-BT saw relatively little combat, due mostly to a distinct lack of situations necessitating its deployment. On battlefields where it did deign make an appearance, its tactical supremacy was absolute and, for the opposition, thoroughly demoralizing. Since the death of the Emperor Palpatine and subsequent escalation of the Galactic Civil War, these colossi have seen considerably more use and increasingly worthy opposition; often from others of their kind. The AT-BT is currently in service with the armies of both the Galactic Empire and the New Republic, in addition to countless Imperial splinter groups and local governments. It is produced by Kuat Drive Yards and proprietary Imperial weapons factories.

In addition to its heavy, advanced composite-armored chassis, the AT-BT boasts a powerful shield generator impervious to all light and medium weapons and resistant to most forms of heavy artillery. Weapons heavy enough to penetrate its defenses (turbolasers and proton warheads) are a considerable collateral damage liability. As General Tyr Taskeen so famously complained, "Oh, you can bring down an AT-BT. Easily. Good luck doing it without igniting the atmosphere and glassing the surface, though." By the time AT-BTs are deployed however, "scorched earth" is usually a foregone conclusion. The primary weapon of the standard configuration is a heavy turbolaser cannon. Variants of the walker mount a heavy ion cannon or mass driver. Four heavy laser cannon are mounted in a triaxial ball turret on the forward section, with another two in vertically-traversing turrets on the flanks. The precise number of heavy blasters varies from unit to unit, but is usually in the range of twenty-six to fifty-two.

With eight times the cargo and troop capacity of an AT-AT, the walker can deliver two thousand soldiers, sixteen light vehicles or some partial combination of both on target and under heavy fire. The standard command crew consists of one pilot, twelve gunners (one primary, three secondary, eight tertiary), two COMSCAN technicians, two shield operators, a variable-strength engineering team (rarely less than four), a commander and emergency replacements for each. For operations of extended duration, larger crews are kept on hand for rotating shifts. Apart from the high cost of construction and maintenance, the vehicle's only drawback is that it is too large for transport aboard the ubiquitous frigate-carriers and destroyer-carriers. Heavy carriers, Star Dreadnoughts or dedicated transports are required to ferry the vehicles in-system, the latter of which are used as suborbital dropships.

As a minor nitpick, Darth Raptor, the usual term is "hexapedal." Also, the gunnery team seems unusually small for that complement of weapons, unless they're using droid support for the lesser weapons.

Might there be a connection to the up-gunned AT-ATs we see in Dark Empire, with their "advanced turbolasers" and X-80 power cells? Specifically, that they were up-gunned to face threats like the BT, presumably at the expense of increased weight, lesser transport capacity, lower speed &c. They would be an intermediate or cheap solution for the problem of lack of superheavies as assembly lines were re-tooled. The AT-IC, likewise, could be a tank destroyer adapted for this purpose.

phongn wrote:As a minor nitpick, Darth Raptor, the usual term is "hexapedal."

Aha, I was wondering about that. Much better.

Also, the gunnery team seems unusually small for that complement of weapons, unless they're using droid support for the lesser weapons.

Point taken. I initially assumed that the troops in the aft compartment would be manning the blasters, which would be automatic otherwise, but in retrospect that idea is, well, dumb. For at least two reasons, they should be under the control of the permanent gunnery crew, which has been increased.

Darth Hoth wrote:Might there be a connection to the up-gunned AT-ATs we see in Dark Empire, with their "advanced turbolasers" and X-80 power cells? Specifically, that they were up-gunned to face threats like the BT, presumably at the expense of increased weight, lesser transport capacity, lower speed &c. They would be an intermediate or cheap solution for the problem of lack of superheavies as assembly lines were re-tooled. The AT-IC, likewise, could be a tank destroyer adapted for this purpose.

Good idea. I initially planned to portray the BT as a Dark Empire weapon on the side of Palpatine (which it is, just not exclusively), but I wanted to link it with the TESB sketch that spawned it and thus the older design. Also, by keeping it out of the Clone Wars per se I avoided direct references to the circumstances of that period. I'm assuming the Wars were still over by 16 rS, but if IP moves them back, I can do the same.

I posted a comprehensive reply to Hoth and to Felire in the PSW thread, but I'm going to be winding that down after that (no more point-by-point), and I'm going to bringing it in here.

By first bit of fluff will be a detailing of the "Saxton-scaled Dreadnaught-class 'plot-analogue'". Something that fits a realistic concept of the SW scale and combat as fleshed out by Saxton, but filling the role and concept imagined for the Dreadnaught-class "heavy cruiser" (woefully tiny and gnat-like for such a role).

Then look out for brief "encyclopedial" biographies of maybe Thrawn, Tarkin, maybe someone new. Maybe the other plot-analog warships (scaled up ISD equivalent, Tector equivalent, Venator, Victory, etc.). And maybe a concept of a rank chart. And last but not least, maybe a short vignette of the Thrawn campaign and/or Zsinj campaign. Maybe a little something during the Pestage regency.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I posted a comprehensive reply to Hoth and to Felire in the PSW thread, but I'm going to be winding that down after that (no more point-by-point), and I'm going to bringing it in here.

By first bit of fluff will be a detailing of the "Saxton-scaled Dreadnaught-class 'plot-analogue'". Something that fits a realistic concept of the SW scale and combat as fleshed out by Saxton, but filling the role and concept imagined for the Dreadnaught-class "heavy cruiser" (woefully tiny and gnat-like for such a role).

Phong had an awesome fan rendering of a ship that might fit that role, you might want to check with him.

Two things,

First, Darth Raptor, very nice entry. I like both the image (which is sheer beauty) as well as the information and fluff that you present. Honestly, I find it makes a lot of sense. Though when I read it my only question became - how does this fit with AT-ATs. Very nice job.

Second, does anybody have any thoughts, comments, suggesstions or points about my article?

Here's a list of ranks from the Imperial sourcebook and other EU sources from lowest to highest (real life rank equivalents will be listed in parenthesis for reference where applicable):

Imperial Army:
Enlisted:
Trooper/private (soldier)
lance corporal
Corporal
Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Sergeant Major

Warrant Officer
Chief Warrant Officer
Master Warrant

Commissioned Officers:
Cadet
Second Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel
High Colonel (Senior Colonel)
Brigadier (Brigade Commander, Brigadier General)
Major General
General
High General (Colonel General, Senior general)
Surface Marshal (Marshal, Field Marshal, General of the Army)
Grand General (Grand Marshal, Marshal General, Generalissimo, Captain General)

Combined military/political ranks:
Governor
Moff
Grand Moff

Imperial Navy:
Enlisted (not certain):
Spaceman/Spacehand?
Petty Officer
Chief Petty Officer
Master Chief Petty Officer

Warrant Officer
Chief Warrant Officer
Master Warrant

Commissioned Officers:
Cadet
Ensign
Lieutenant
Senior Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Line Captain (Fleet Captain)
Commodore
Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral
High Admiral (general Admiral)
Grand Admiral


Supreme Commander (or an Executor)

Here's a rank table from TFN for additional comparison, as I've only listed the ones that I myself had actually seen or mentioned from a given source.

Admiral Felire wrote:Though when I read it my only question became - how does this fit with AT-ATs. Very nice job.

I don't see the problem. Yes, the AT-AT is big, but why assume it's the biggest? Also, the AT-BT is a bitch to haul around fully-assembled and battle-ready. I imagine most are shipped to their respective garrisons piecemeal and assembled on-site; therefore much more common with the Army than the Marines. It's a tight fit, but the fleet destroyer-carrier hybrids like the Imperator-class can deploy AT-ATs, and there's literally millions of them. Marine armor units aboard the really big ships like an Executor-class Star Dreadnought or Revenge-class Heavy Carrier would still use them, though.

Unless, did you mean can AT-ATs fit inside them? No, not fully-assembled, at least.

Darth Raptor,

I didn't mean why should this exist since there is the AT-AT. I meant, how would this be used in addition to AT-ATs in some sort of awesome combined force detachment. The visual of this huge awesome beast being followed by or following a squadron of AT-ATs is just too cool to contemplate. hehe

montypython wrote:Here's a list of ranks from the Imperial sourcebook and other EU sources from lowest to highest (real life rank equivalents will be listed in parenthesis for reference where applicable):

I vote for letting CompForce use SS-ish ranks.

Darth Hoth wrote:

montypython wrote:Here's a list of ranks from the Imperial sourcebook and other EU sources from lowest to highest (real life rank equivalents will be listed in parenthesis for reference where applicable):

I vote for letting CompForce use SS-ish ranks.

That is what Publius had in mind, I think.

Cross posted from the PSW thread, this is the simplistic breakdown of political astrographical organization, based essentially and coherently and paying due respect to, The New Order in Power ("The College of Moffs" in particular).

Here's how the system works. There are hundreds of billions of star systems, maybe near a trillion stars counting the entire galactic disk, bulge, halo, globular clusters, satellite galaxies, and over gravitationally bound entities like galactic remnants (from collision events). There are billions of worlds. There are around 50 million discrete political entities with a direct relationship to the Imperial State (I imagine there are probably around a hundred million give or take at this level of organization and political complexity; remember that the member worlds may have their own colonies, protectorates, trust mandates, etc.) Around 1 million of those discrete political entities are fully-enfranchised, federated member states. There are probably on the order of 20 thousand sectors, based on the 50 worlds per sector estimate (the Chommell Sector, a Mid Rim and sparsely populated one, has fewer members than 50 in it, which would push the estimate up, but I'm using simple division as a benchmark here). There are probably around a thousand or so of the lowest class of region (we can name it what you want, my suggestion and the one in The New Order in Power is the Lesser Region). There are probably a hundred or so mid-level regions (The New Order in Power calls these the Greater Regions). The highest level of region, basically indisputed are the seven confimed ones, the Deep Core, the Core Worlds, the Colonies, the Inner Rim, the Expansion Region, the Mid Rim, and the Outer Rim (The New Order in Power calls these the Galactic Regions). We know there are supra-sectorial units below the "galactic region" threshold in the case of the Governorate General of the Bright Jewel Cluster. That's not in dispute. Nor is the fact there are some regions with only a few sectors. The multi-classed region scheme I support as the best way to organize this.

Anyway, the Empire reorganizes the sectors into oversectors and priority sectors, which appear to be different names for the same things and sometimes used interchangably. I suspect they also come in varying classes and may be layered atop one another themselves (for monstrosities like the Oversector Outer to things like the Bright Jewel Oversector; presumably the latter was a subset of the former). We can add and modify terminology, but I'd prefer to keep The New Order in Power as our canon where not impossible and I'd prefer to keep terminology consistent with canonical use where possible.

There also the proconsulates of the Privy Councillors, which The New Order in Power terms "Special Areas" and their administrators "Rectors" (although this seems to be more of a supervisory role that piggy-backs off of and is layered atop of existing administrations like a particular grouping of sectors; the Moffs there may be expected to furnish reports too and respond to coordination by the Rector; a kind of 'governing czar' for a particular locality).

That's that for the cross-post, further elaboration follows:

So, under the system you have a parallel jurisdiction; the local worlds, be they wards of the Imperial State (previously the Republic Authority) or under the sovereignty of the federated member states, are under a sectorial administration, consisting of its own traditional government system, typically with a sectorial assembly of some kind, and under a locally elected sector governor (styled, "Governor of x Sector"). In the Republic, a sector coordinator is levied over this system and assigned by Coruscant to control Republic Authority assets military and otherwise assigned to that sector and not under the province of the devolved government's charter or constitutional conventions. In the Empire, this system is replaced with the overlaid administration of the Privy Council-appointed regional governor (styled, "Governor and Supreme Commander in and over x Sector"), who has direct control of all Imperial State assets permanently assigned to the sector (the military assets are folded into a combined command called, the "X Sector Command").

The sector itself is organized with others according to economic considerations, astrographic simplicity, historical concerns, traditional constitutions, and cultural solidarity into Regions. The region begins with the Lesser Region, containing as many as maybe 20 and as few as 3-4 sectors (sectors may be constituted directly into greater regions, lesser regions exist for particular cultural and traditional concerns or other reasons requiring a more tight-knit governance and autonomy from the greater region; typically sector administrations beneath lesser regions are weaker than their counterparts directly constituting greater regions, and the control of the greater region on the lesser region is usually pretty hands-off)*. The regional government is bound by its own host of prerogatives and conventions between the higher echelons of administration and the sector government and varies depending on issues as diverse as the strength and number of different local powers, the type of region and its charter, its importance to the economy, the personalities of its administration, the vigor of its subordinate sector governments and its supervisory government (higher regional echelons, or even the central government), etc. The regional government is headed by a governor-general (styled, "Governor-General and Supreme Commander in and over the x Region"). The regional government comes with his full-fledged stratum of civil service, devolved functions, military assets (formed into a combined command called, "the Group of the Imperial Forces in the X"), and court circuit. This system is duplicated from up til the galactic region, of which there are seven.

The Empire goes in and revises this; particular sectors are carved out of the regional scheme and incorporated into priority sectors or oversectors; sometimes these new formations replace previous regional administrations altogether (the decree reconstituting the Greater Region of the Bright Jewel Cluster into the Bright Jewel Oversector, for example). These administrations are subject to significantly less check by the Senate and local prerogatives than the traditional regions, and are constituted by decrees emphasizing the maintenance of law and order and the enforcement of the Galactic Emperor's Peace (these are more like military districts). They come fully-equipped with their own civil service levels as well, as well as military assets permanently assigned (known by colorful callsigns typically obeying the nomenclature of "[color] [traditional weapon or armor] Command", such as the Imperial Center Oversector's combined command is known as "Azure Hammer Command," a neighboring oversector, "Azure Shield Command," a Deep Core-to-Rim oversector, "Black Sword Command," and the Oversector Outer's "Crimson Mace Command")**; the oversectorial governor-general had much broader leeway in constituting his own local military services, in coordinating and seizing subrodinate (typically sectorial) assets. The priority sector or oversector is ruled by a governor-general (styled, "Governor-General and Supreme Commander in and over the x Oversector [or, "the x Priority Sector"]"). Priority sectors/oversectors may and are organized into their own hierarchy (most apparently, the Bright Jewel Oversector was a component of the Oversector Outer with no intermediates in the regional system whatsoever) parallel to and mimicking the tiered system of regions while also cutting across them without respect for their traditional spheres of influence and without concern for the traditional prerogatives that restrained them (the Imperial Center Oversector - or the Imperial Center Priority Sector aka '[Priority] Sector Zero' in spacer slang - was itself beneath the Core Worlds Region of the Galaxy, but it incorporated many sectors formally responsible ultimately to the Colonies Region of the Galaxy).

In-between and above these parallel (and oftentimes competing or colliding systems) were the Special Areas. Assigned to the Privy Councilors (whose office with respect to them is "Rector of the Special Area of X"), the relative expanse and importance of the Special Areas is inversely proportional to their power and standing in the court in general and the Privy Council in particular (the rectorate was considered as much - if not often more so - a burdensome chore, make-work, and distraction for the Privy Councilor than a font of power and responsibility). Rectors were assigned conglomerates of sectors and even regions where they trouble-shooted and supervised the policies and direction of the disparate administrations each headed by their own independent-minded regional governor or governor-general. They function broadly as a "governing czar" for a family of territorial units, but the job is as much a tool for control by their betters as it is a real unit of necessarily governance.

Complex, I know, but I hope this clears up something.

*I envisioned the regional tiers in thinking of the multiple theoretical levels of government in the USSR, with its Union Republics followed by Autonomous Republic, Autonomous Oblasts, etc. I envision the Lesser Regions to basically be autonomous special regions grouped together due to unique common relationships and characteristics like Autonomous Oblasts.

**I envision Azure Hammer Command (and maybe Azure Shield Command) as constituting the Home/Grand Fleet for Coruscant, of the Empire. As such AZHAMMERCOM is commanded by a grand admiral, who most notably, nomenclature of "Governor-General and Supreme Commander in and over the Imperial Center Oversector," need not answer to the Governor-General of Sector Zero.

Take Coruscant.

Imperial Center is part of the Imperial Sector. The Imperial Sector is responsible to the Imperial Region which itself is responsible to the Core Worlds Region of the Galaxy. However, the Imperial Sector is also part of the Imperial Center Oversector, which is responsible to no higher echelon.

Similarly, take Yavin.

Yavin is part of the Gordian Reach Sector. The Gordian Reach Sector is part of the Greater Region of the Bright Jewel Cluster which is responsible to the Outer Rim Territories Region of the Galaxy. But the Gordian Reach Sector belongs later to the Bright Jewel Oversector, which is part of the Oversector Outer.

Next up, ship fluff, and maybe a small bio and case study for a particular piece of space in the Mid Rim according to the above system. Oh, and a real brief physical astrography cheat sheet.

Complex, I know, but I hope this clears up something.

It helps a lot. Thank you.

It's not hard to imagine that drawing arbitrary (or, more likely, not) boundaries through traditional regions, splitting up or forcing distinct groups together created a lot of problems. Just look at modern Africa and Southwest Asia. Although I'd expect it was deliberate on the part of the Imperial State. For them, indefinite military occupation isn't a problem, it's a goal.

I just got the image of Lewis, the Moff Paul Bremer III, Governor and Supreme Commander in and over Iraq Sector.

Just to be pedantic, remember not all Moffs are governors and not all governors are Moffs. The Moffhood is a special dignity and honor that marks individuals who enjoy the confidence of the Galactic Emperor. They are the Empire's Cardinals to the Emperor's Pope. Accordingly, they are styled "HE (His/Her Excellency) and entitled to the postnominal letters ME (Moff of the Empire) or GME (Grand Moff of the Empire). They also may interfix their dignity into their name. It would be "Lewis Paul Moff Bremer III". The Moffhood is a personal dignity like membership in the Cardinals or membership in an order, meaning it goes with the person, and is not an office. The meaning is that it places the lucky Moff in a situation that further complexifies his relationship to authorities and the normative state structure in the execution of his office. HE Lewis Paul Moff Bremer III, Governor and Supreme Commander in and over Iraq Sector has the advantage over his peers who are 'merely' Governors and Supreme Commanders in that unlike them, Moff Bremer is actually a social superior to his nominative boss in the Ministry of the Interior. His status means he's much harder to touch, and commands the respect and submission of many who theoretically should be able to monitor and supervise him. Its yet another way Palpatine subverts his own system as it exists on the books to personalize power and cut the Senate and traditional checks and balances off. A Moff or Grand Moff can be appointed to many offices and run basically as a warlord answerable only to his court patrons and the Ruling Council (only the Ruling Council and the Galactic Emperor can command the presence of a Moff of the Empire) without respect to his superior on the organizational chart. So you can have Moff Ministers or Grand Moff Ministers who can ignore weak Minister-Presidents and exercise authority as they see fit. The Moffhood is also not hereditary and is different from a Peerage or a Baronetage.

Physical Astrography

"The Galaxy"

The general term by which the denizens of the Star Wars civilization refer to its self-contained home. Actually consists of a single grand-design or semi-grand design (2-4 spiral arms) spiral galaxy, its globular clusters, and satellite dwarf galaxies, and other gravitationally bound structures.

The primary

The primary consists of the spiral galaxy itself. The spiral galaxy consists of three distinct morphological components characterized by orbits and stellar populations. The bulge, the disk, and the halo.

The bulge

The bulge is the superficial "hub" of the galaxy. At its heart is a supermassive black hole massing in the billions of main-sequence stellar masses, surrounded by a very dense collection of stars and stellar corpses and an accretion disk that produces high-intensity radiation and shreds star systems. The bulge is characterized by very old, dim red stars and stellar corpses, orbiting in near-circular orbits around the black hole at every orientation (hence why it appears as a sphere). The bulge is very low in post-helium elements and lacks warm main-sequence stars. The handful which do exist will be migrants from the disk where gravitational disturbances sent them spiraling inwards. Density increases directly proportionally with distance from the core. Near the edge of the bulge, it is intersected by the disk.

The disk

The most interesting portion of the galactic system, the disk is a population of younger stars in elliptical orbits confined to a single plane. The metallicity of the disk is higher than the other components, and the distance between high-metallicity stars is much lower, and also the rate of star formation. The spiral arms are not actual discrete phenomena but the product of density waves caused by "bunching up" of stars along their orbits; their close proximity makes the arms more dense, brighter, which in turn causes bouts of star formation, further brightening them with short-lived young star populations. The density of the disk increases inversely proportionally with radial distance from the core, with latitudinal distance from the plane of rotation, and directly proportionally with the spiral structure. The disk gradually diffuses outward and exists beyond its visible components further out.

The halo

The halo exists outside the disk and bulge. It consists of a sparse population of old stars in elliptical orbits at random inclinations. Most of these stars are old and dim, but a handful will be former disk stars ejected by gravitational perturbations. Many of the stars may be remnants from collision events.

The satellites

Globular clusters

These congolmerations of tightly-packed stars orbit the center of the galaxy and are mostly very old, red stars that formed at the beginning of the galaxy's formation. Their mellaticity is very low. Any high-metallicity stars were likely captured from the disk. The higher-metallicity clusters are generally associated with bulge (orbit closer in), and the lower ones with the halo (orbit further out). Their cores may be dominated by intermediate-mass black holes in the many thousands of stellar masses.

Satellite dwarf galaxies

These galaxies are similar to normal ones but they are small and have low stellar populations, and orbit close to the primary spiral. They have their own central black holes. Spheroidal, elliptical, and irregular dwarfs are more common than well-defined dwarf spirals.

Galactic remnants

These are semi-defined whisps of stars and gas and other material looping to and from the galaxy and through the halo, relics of collision events between the primary and its own satellites or interloping galaxies.

The dark halo

A massive structure surrounding the galaxy, the dark halo is a nebulous and nearly-unobservable body of matter that contains 95% of the mass of the galactic system. The halo mostly likely consists of a minority of dark, compact objects which are difficult to observe (MACHOs, like starless planets) and a great majority of nebulous particles which do not interact readily with normal matter, confounding detection and observability (WIMPs).

Astrographical Implications

The formation of complex life will hinge on stable star systems around main-sequence stars with high metallicity. These will almost all be found in the disk of the primary. High metallicity and star formation (found further inward in the disk and in the spiral arms) will be correlated with the best locales to extract raw materials (likely from planetesimals in protoplanetary disks before their accretion into high-gravity large planets). Stellar corpses will be important for possibly energy harvesting and the manufacture of sophisticated technology (like repulsorlift coils in black hole-based factories). They will be more common in globular clusters and the bulge, but will also exist in the disk. The economics of governance, trade in goods and services, immigrations, etc. will be fundamentally effected by the relative distance between hubs of resources and worthwhile systems of habitation. Therefore the inner areas of the disk will be most suited to the heaviest level of habitation and development, gradually declining outward (and inward) until there is no worthwhile economical places to go in the halo, and islands low-intensity civilization clinging to the edges of globular clusters or throughout high-metallicity and star formation-rich satellite galaxies like an island archipelago. Some low-intensity development of globular clusters and the less dense and easily accessible regions of the bulge for stellar corpse exploitation may occur.

The Deep Core refers to the bulge, but the known and settled parts are pretty much limited to the outer regions and fringes, and the areas of the disk intersecting the bulge. The inner areas are hazardous (high radiation and risk of collision), poorly charted (gravitational pertubations can constantly alter these already irregular, short-duration orbits), and mostly devoid of useful or economic resources or places of interest.

The Core Worlds consists of the spoke of the spiral arms around the bulge, and has the best economics for governance, industry, resource extraction, trade, etc. It is the social heart of the galactic society.

The Colonies and Inner Rim are like the Core Worlds but a bit more diffuse and further out; fundamental economics tends to make these areas incrementally poorer than the Core Worlds.

The Expansion and Mid Rim are middle areas of the galaxy where many of the indigenous civilizations may have originated (perhaps a higher rate of indigenous peoples and societies than the more astronomically violent and compact Core Worlds). These areas may take a poor-economics, quaint backwater culture with emphasis on old heritage.

The Outer Rim is the fringe of civilization. Consisting of the outer tenous reaches of the disk and the nearly orbiting satellites, it has some of the poorest economics and poorest physical fundamentals for close relations and development relative to the Core.

Wild Space is unincorporated territories and territories which do not fit traditional organization (distantly orbiting satellites, settled and well-known halo stars above or below the plane of the disk, recently resettled supernovae-effected regions, etc.).

The Unknown Regions are those astrographical locations now out of practical contact and association with the main civilization and economy. They are not correctly marked or known on astrogation charts, and are incapable of being reached. Mostly lost anonymous halo stars diffuse through the void around the galaxy.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Darth Hoth wrote:

montypython wrote:Here's a list of ranks from the Imperial sourcebook and other EU sources from lowest to highest (real life rank equivalents will be listed in parenthesis for reference where applicable):

I vote for letting CompForce use SS-ish ranks.

That is what Publius had in mind, I think.

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well, with the Subadult Group (SAG) ranks emulating Hitler Youth ranks, while Compforce ranks would resemble SA/SS ranks and the Compforce Assault would resemble Waffen-SS ranks.

One thing I think that needs to be considered also is that SA/SS ranks expanded quite a bit from the original setup over time, this could also be reflected in Compforce organization as well.

One of the my major issues with the structure of the Star Wars galaxy has always been the "Unknown Regions"; the explanation IP alludes to, a lack of interest and loss of navigational data rather than simple exploratory neglect, makes more sense than the standard "there be dragons" EU approach, but it still strikes me as rather unconvincing. The lack of contact with a reasonably large swath of space, adjacent to the oldest and most populace segment of galactic civilization, particularly in light of the numerous interstellar governments that comfortably occupy it, requires further rationalization.

Perhaps shunting this area well beyond the galactic disk, as has been mentioned elsewhere, might be the most logical alternative.

As I described in the other thread, the Unknown Regions are places where you can't check the phone book and call, and can't check the map and go to (either not on the map at all, or marked but if you try and go there its not there). These could literally be anywhere. But for the most part, only lonely halo stars well beyond the disk make up the only places where (suitably deliberately isolationist and insular [like the Chiss], or nomadic) civilizations could be nestled and remain at length. I stress the fact that its a "status" and not an actual area of space strongly. The Unknown Regions are never marked anywhere. Anywhere telescopes can look is filled in. It is not a discrete contiguous patch of space. Rather, it is the tiny bits scattered in the margins and between destinations no one notices, remembers, or cares about. Or never updated the database on, and no one queried, and no one cared. The Chiss is this model are a very insular species nestled in the depths of the halo with knowledge of but eager concealment from, the greater civilization. The regions of space known to the Chiss are an informal club of similar holdouts and paranoids who know they are better off unperturbed and uncontacted (which would mean disaster for their independence and autonomy). Over the lifetime of the Chiss civilization (longer than the age of the Republic they carefully discovered and developed a relationship with kindred isolates in the deep halo, and for mutual and obvious reasons, they all keep to themselves and each other, to avoid risking exposure. Hence their fierce defense posture and their non-interventionist, non-adventurist foreign policy.

montypython wrote:Here's a list of ranks from the Imperial sourcebook and other EU sources from lowest to highest (real life rank equivalents will be listed in parenthesis for reference where applicable):

Imperial Army:
Enlisted:
Trooper/private (soldier)
lance corporal
Corporal
Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Sergeant Major

Warrant Officer
Chief Warrant Officer
Master Warrant

Commissioned Officers:
Cadet
Second Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel
High Colonel (Senior Colonel)
Brigadier (Brigade Commander, Brigadier General)
Major General
General
High General (Colonel General, Senior general)
Surface Marshal (Marshal, Field Marshal, General of the Army)
Grand General (Grand Marshal, Marshal General, Generalissimo, Captain General)

Combined military/political ranks:
Governor
Moff
Grand Moff

Imperial Navy:
Enlisted (not certain):
Spaceman/Spacehand?
Petty Officer
Chief Petty Officer
Master Chief Petty Officer

Warrant Officer
Chief Warrant Officer
Master Warrant

Commissioned Officers:
Cadet
Ensign
Lieutenant
Senior Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Line Captain (Fleet Captain)
Commodore
Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral
High Admiral (general Admiral)
Grand Admiral


Supreme Commander (or an Executor)

Here's a rank table from TFN for additional comparison, as I've only listed the ones that I myself had actually seen or mentioned from a given source.

Isn't Fleet Admiral higher than High Admiral, the latter which is a rank typically associated with commanders of sector forces?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:As I described in the other thread, the Unknown Regions are places where you can't check the phone book and call, and can't check the map and go to (either not on the map at all, or marked but if you try and go there its not there). These could literally be anywhere. But for the most part, only lonely halo stars well beyond the disk make up the only places where (suitably deliberately isolationist and insular [like the Chiss], or nomadic) civilizations could be nestled and remain at length. I stress the fact that its a "status" and not an actual area of space strongly. The Unknown Regions are never marked anywhere. Anywhere telescopes can look is filled in. It is not a discrete contiguous patch of space. Rather, it is the tiny bits scattered in the margins and between destinations no one notices, remembers, or cares about. Or never updated the database on, and no one queried, and no one cared. The Chiss is this model are a very insular species nestled in the depths of the halo with knowledge of but eager concealment from, the greater civilization. The regions of space known to the Chiss are an informal club of similar holdouts and paranoids who know they are better off unperturbed and uncontacted (which would mean disaster for their independence and autonomy). Over the lifetime of the Chiss civilization (longer than the age of the Republic they carefully discovered and developed a relationship with kindred isolates in the deep halo, and for mutual and obvious reasons, they all keep to themselves and each other, to avoid risking exposure. Hence their fierce defense posture and their non-interventionist, non-adventurist foreign policy.

How large do you imagine the Chiss to be, Illuminatus? I would suppose that they would have at least the equivalent of a few dozen Sectors, given that this is what canon ascribes to them and the fact that they are able to maintain enough of a military to protect their independence. This would assume that their territory is at least roughly contiguous, if one takes at face value the claim that their hyperdrive-analogue requires fixed subspace relays; are you thinking of them merely as isolated systems hold-outs in a loose federation?