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A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 03:05am
by drrockso20
This is a world where starting with multiple astronomical disasters in the late 1860's have led to a world of cruel and mighty empires, and wars fought with weapons of impossible science, monstrous creations that spit in the face of The Almighty, and forces beyond human knowledge and sane reality


Map Guide
Blue-Grand Republic Of The New United Kingdoms/Capital-High Providence (OTL DC)
Lavender-Gran Columbia/Capital-Bogota
Green-Hy-Brazil/Capital-Brasilia
Sea Green-The Dominion Of Lemuria/Capital-El Dorado
Brown-Disputed area between Hy-Brazil and Lemuria
Red-4th Reich/Capital-Germania
Olive-Persian Empire/Capitals-Cairo,Jerusalem,Mecca,and Kabul
Light Brown-Pakistan/Capital-need help with capital name
Pink-Soviet Remnants/same here
Orange-Empire Of The Rising Sun/Capital-Tokyo
Yellow-Mauritanian Commonwealth/and with the next three as well
Grey-Ivory Kingdom
Purple-Congo Republic
Light Blue-Apartheid Principalities
Giant fucking image under tag. Next time douchebag, link oversized images.


basically this setting is designed to incorporate a whole lot of war, pulp, and sci-fi tropes and is a setting where one moment on the battlefield you could be taking out a tank half a city block in size then mow down a platoon of supersoldiers and then finally duck for cover as the elder horror that wouldn't die is hit by a tac-nuke and it wouldn't be that out of the ordinary and yet despite the different ways to wage war in the old adage remains true: War, War never changes...

p.s. please feel free to post ideas for this world such as weapon systems and history tidbits among other things though it's only canon if I agree to it since I want there to be at least some consistency here after all we can't have fifty contradicting explanations for vampires for instance :mrgreen:

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 07:37am
by fgalkin
Where is Russia? Also, are you aware that you share a name with one of our admins?

Your map is also too big. Please resize it so it doesn't break my screen.

EDIT: Both issues have been resolved by the kind Ozymandias (accept no imitations!)

Now, let's look at your Map Guide:
Blue-Grand Republic Of The New United Kingdoms/Capital-High Providence (OTL DC)
Why United Kingdoms? Why High Providence? No American Revolution happened in this timeline? Please elaborate.
Lavender-Gran Columbia/Capital-Bogota
Gran Colombia? How did it survive in this timeline? There was a reason why it's not around anymore, you know. Also, Gran Colombia is a modern name. When it was around, it was just Republica de Colombia
Green-Hy-Brazil/Capital-Brasilia
Brasilia? What year does this take place in?
Sea Green-The Dominion Of Lemuria/Capital-El Dorado
Lemuria? El Dorado? Whaaa? Did you just pick names at random to fit your random and arbitrary borders?
Brown-Disputed area between Hy-Brazil and Lemuria
Red-4th Reich/Capital-Germania
What happened to the Second and Third Reichs? How did it conquer all of Europe? Capital "Germania?"
Olive-Persian Empire/Capitals-Cairo,Jerusalem,Mecca,and Kabul
What happened to the Ottomans? How did Persia go from backwater shithole to global power?
Light Brown-Pakistan/Capital-need help with capital name
I KNOW you're just pulling shit out of your arse now....
Pink-Soviet Remnants/same here
Soviet Remnants? I thought this was the 1860s? And how in the Emperor's name did Russia get reduced to that?
Orange-Empire Of The Rising Sun/Capital-Tokyo
Welcome to Red Alert 3. :roll: You've just won the retard prize, too. Japan conquering the Far East, China, India, SE Asia....right. :lol:

Yellow-Mauritanian Commonwealth/and with the next three as well
Why Mauritania?
Grey-Ivory Kingdom
Purple-Congo Republic
Light Blue-Apartheid Principalities
:banghead:
basically this setting is designed to incorporate a whole lot of war, pulp, and sci-fi tropes and is a setting where one moment on the battlefield you could be taking out a tank half a city block in size then mow down a platoon of supersoldiers and then finally duck for cover as the elder horror that wouldn't die is hit by a tac-nuke and it wouldn't be that out of the ordinary and yet despite the different ways to wage war in the old adage remains true: War, War never changes...
Not only a 'tard but a Troper 'tard with delusions of adequacy.
p.s. please feel free to post ideas for this world such as weapon systems and history tidbits among other things though it's only canon if I agree to it since I want there to be at least some consistency here after all we can't have fifty contradicting explanations for vampires for instance
With the amount of thought you put into this, it is clear that this project is going nowhere. I suggest you scrap it and focus on something that is more suited for your writing and worldbuilding skills. Postmodernist papers or post-it notes for the office walls, maybe.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 12:06pm
by drrockso20
fgalkin wrote:Where is Russia? Also, are you aware that you share a name with one of our admins?

Your map is also too big. Please resize it so it doesn't break my screen.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
okay so I didn't know you weren't supposed to do that and my name has already been changed

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 06:27pm
by The Duchess of Zeon
This is quite simply not an alternate history, there's no reason for a point of divergence, it's all made up, you might as well create a parallel earth with a different history entirely, or a completely new planet with humans on it. To call this "alternate history" is frankly an embarassment even to works which involve time travel and psychics. You have, I fear, simply created something with no relevance to the alternate history genre, which will therefore generate no interest from people. Go back and take a serious look at history, please, or else re-cast it as fantasy.

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 10:05pm
by drrockso20
yeesh no need to be jerks I admit I didn't put enough detail into the initial post but I'll explain the map and worlds history as best I can

1.the date for the map is supposed to be earth early 21st century and the reason for why this world map is so screwy is A.) while I have a decent knowledge of history It's not perfect so there could be mistakes like the fact I didn't know Gran Columbia wasn't the correct name and some of the capitals and other names as well B.) this IS intended to be science fiction with a fair amount of fantasy C.) an important part of this world's history is that magic is real though starting with the renaissance until the mid-1800's it was on the decline, and super-science is possible as well along with other impossible things D.) the astronomical event that devastated this world was a meteor shower ala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshawar_Lancers and if it worked for mr. Sterling it could work for me E.) and there are probably other factors that I can't recall at the moment except for one tidbit I'm partially ignoring the butterfly effect where necessary

2.) there is a united states in this world and in fact was relatively unharmed by the meteor event and became even more powerful than our US and after the UK's fall to the reich the US took over Canada(still need a good reason though) and then conquered a fascist Mexico after they had attacked the US and then claiming peace-keeping reasons took over the rest of central america though as a note the countries name I'm changing it to the Grand Republic Of The New United States to have it make more sense

3. I didn't know about the whole Gran Columbia name not being a proper one

4. according to wikipedia Brasilia is Brazil's capital and as for the name change to Hy-Brazil I'm not sure why I did that except that it sounds cool

5. Lemuria used to be argentina until it had a fascist revolution during the 30's which then renamed itself Lemuria because their leader bought into the whole superior race thing and thought that he was descended from Lemuria's royalty in other words he was nuttier than squirrel food

6. there was a 3rd Reich though once they had conquered all of Europe Hitler announced the end of the 3rd Reich and the beginning of the 4th Reich

7. still working on persia but the basics are after the ottoman's collapsed the entire middle east balkanized to a ridiculous degree with Iran being one of the only stable areas in the middle east so when Hitler starts taking over Europe he makes the Shah a deal, they give him oil for a reduced price and once things become stable enough in europe they'd help Iran unite the middle east under it's flag

8. I admit I'm still working on pakistan as well but pretty much the only reason it exists is to act as a partial buffer state

9. Russia's pitiful state is due to getting torn apart by three different powers within a short period of time

10. part of the reason that Japan was able to do this is due to the fact that they had aid from the united states in doing so and japan have a very strong technological advantage in this world

11. not entirely sure why I went with Mauritania except for the fact that I remember a timeline I read once where they became a pirate superpower and that's probably why

12. those other African nations were admittedly filler and I was running low on ideas

13. and now you just descend into douchebaggery I simply made this map and timline for fun there's no reason to be a jerk though I do agree I need to work on this so I request the forum staff to lock this thread because this is probably going nowhere

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 11:03pm
by JGregory32
Take a protip from an actual history student (Finishing my degree in the fall) your world makes no sense.
Sit down and try to understand the way the world worked and the WHY the world worked.

Japan and American were never allies until Japan was beaten by America in WWII, in fact the offical Canadian plan to deal with American invasion was to go to ground and wait for reinforcements from both Japan and Britain.
If Britain fell to Germany then Canada would have been leading the charge against Germany with America on our side, or are you setting up a scenario where the US sided with Germany in WWII?
Another reason for invading Mexico and Canada is writ into American history, its called Manifest Destiny which calls for American domination of the entire continent of North America.
How did Hitler conquer all of Europe? Germany in war has always suffered from a shortage of manpower and tried to make up for it with technology. No one has EVER been able to conquer all of Europe and hold on to it, its too big, too crowded, and their are too many people who want their own empire. If Germany had managed to conquer Europe then they would be rushing around putting out rebellions everywhere.

Here's my advice, instead of trying to conceive a whole new world take one event and try and figure out the logical consequences of its change.
Try this: What would be the logical consequences of Tojo dieing before the start of WWII? Or what if Japan never attacked Pearl Harbour? Work out the consaquences of this and you might have a story.

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-14 11:16pm
by drrockso20
JGregory32 wrote:Take a protip from an actual history student (Finishing my degree in the fall) your world makes no sense.
Sit down and try to understand the way the world worked and the WHY the world worked.

Japan and American were never allies until Japan was beaten by America in WWII, in fact the offical Canadian plan to deal with American invasion was to go to ground and wait for reinforcements from both Japan and Britain.
If Britain fell to Germany then Canada would have been leading the charge against Germany with America on our side, or are you setting up a scenario where the US sided with Germany in WWII?
Another reason for invading Mexico and Canada is writ into American history, its called Manifest Destiny which calls for American domination of the entire continent of North America.
How did Hitler conquer all of Europe? Germany in war has always suffered from a shortage of manpower and tried to make up for it with technology. No one has EVER been able to conquer all of Europe and hold on to it, its too big, too crowded, and their are too many people who want their own empire. If Germany had managed to conquer Europe then they would be rushing around putting out rebellions everywhere.

Here's my advice, instead of trying to conceive a whole new world take one event and try and figure out the logical consequences of its change.
Try this: What would be the logical consequences of Tojo dieing before the start of WWII? Or what if Japan never attacked Pearl Harbour? Work out the consaquences of this and you might have a story.
you're actually the first person here who has been nice to me :cry: , you are now a friend :mrgreen:

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-15 11:36am
by CaptainChewbacca
Why would they partition ICELAND? Its not that big, and really whoever got it first would keep it. I'd give it all to America.

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-15 02:20pm
by fgalkin
drrockso20 wrote:yeesh no need to be jerks I admit I didn't put enough detail into the initial post but I'll explain the map and worlds history as best I can
I have not been a jerk to you. I have pointed out every problem with your scenario, step by step.

Lack of detail is not your problem, lack of THOUGHT is.
1.the date for the map is supposed to be earth early 21st century and the reason for why this world map is so screwy is A.) while I have a decent knowledge of history It's not perfect so there could be mistakes like the fact I didn't know Gran Columbia wasn't the correct name and some of the capitals and other names as well
"Decent" knowledge of history? Maybe by US high school standards.
B.) this IS intended to be science fiction with a fair amount of fantasy
Irrelevant. You are setting it in the real world, so it has to follow the rules of the real world. If you don't want to do that, don't set it in the real world. Simple, no?
C.) an important part of this world's history is that magic is real though starting with the renaissance until the mid-1800's it was on the decline, and super-science is possible as well along with other impossible things
Then you should define what those things are, and go from there. You're doing it all ass-backwards.
D.) the astronomical event that devastated this world was a meteor shower ala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshawar_Lancers and if it worked for mr. Sterling it could work for me E.) and there are probably other factors that I can't recall at the moment except for one tidbit I'm partially ignoring the butterfly effect where necessary
If you hold Stirling as an authority (which I don't, because he's a grot), perhaps you would be interested to know that he has an account here, and considers some of the alt-hist in the forum of publishable quality (the Drakafiks). One of those authors posted in the thread, telling you don't know jack shit.

Of course Stirling also got his arse kicked in debate with Shep and Stuart on DS a while back, but that's another story entirely. And Peshawar Lancers IS stupid as hell, too. It starts with the whole "Russia is EVIL and so they're worshipping a really obscure minor Slavic deity who was probably made up by a drunk German priest anyway; when there are far better options to choose from" and goes downhill from there.

Finally, most of us would stay AWAY from stuff published by other writers and try to make up our own stuff. The fact that you would do otherwise shows a lack of creativity, or the desire to take the easy way out. Both of which terrible qualities for a writer.

2.) there is a united states in this world and in fact was relatively unharmed by the meteor event and became even more powerful than our US and after the UK's fall to the reich the US took over Canada(still need a good reason though) and then conquered a fascist Mexico after they had attacked the US and then claiming peace-keeping reasons took over the rest of central america though as a note the countries name I'm changing it to the Grand Republic Of The New United States to have it make more sense
*sob*

Why High Providence? Why take over Canada? Why conquer Mexico? What "peace-keeping reasons?" Why "Grand Republic?"
3. I didn't know about the whole Gran Columbia name not being a proper one
And you say your knowledge of history is "decent?" Also, you failed to address the most important part of my post- not the name, the other bit.
me wrote:Gran Colombia? How did it survive in this timeline? There was a reason why it's not around anymore, you know
You need to explain HOW Bolivar succeeded where he failed in the real world. And how that affected Latin American history. THAT is more important by far than what the name is.

But, of course, you run away from challenges instead of facing them; that is why you came here- so we would do all the dirty work for you, and then you'd probably go to some other forum and claim it all as your own. So, of course, you ignored the bit that would require you to some actual research.
4. according to wikipedia Brasilia is Brazil's capital and as for the name change to Hy-Brazil I'm not sure why I did that except that it sounds cool
That is NEVER a reason to do something. EVER. Remember this if you want to make a world that is not utter shit.
5. Lemuria used to be argentina until it had a fascist revolution during the 30's which then renamed itself Lemuria because their leader bought into the whole superior race thing and thought that he was descended from Lemuria's royalty in other words he was nuttier than squirrel food
Why Lemuria? And he managed to control the country how? And the name stuck why? And he conquered much of S. America how? You see where this is going, da?
6. there was a 3rd Reich though once they had conquered all of Europe Hitler announced the end of the 3rd Reich and the beginning of the 4th Reich
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
*wipes tear from the eye*
Oh man, that just made my fucking day!

Kid, google "Third Reich". Read what comes up. Then tell me what's wrong with that statement.

"Decent" knowledge of history indeed.
7. still working on persia but the basics are after the ottoman's collapsed the entire middle east balkanized to a ridiculous degree with Iran being one of the only stable areas in the middle east so when Hitler starts taking over Europe he makes the Shah a deal, they give him oil for a reduced price and once things become stable enough in europe they'd help Iran unite the middle east under it's flag
*sigh*. You are aware what happened to the Middle East OTL after the Great War, right?
8. I admit I'm still working on pakistan as well but pretty much the only reason it exists is to act as a partial buffer state
So, I was right. You DID pull that shit out of your arse. Why are you calling me a "jerk" again?
9. Russia's pitiful state is due to getting torn apart by three different powers within a short period of time
Ummm...no? If the world is anything like OTL, then the USSR is going to fare a lot better than that
10. part of the reason that Japan was able to do this is due to the fact that they had aid from the united states in doing so and japan have a very strong technological advantage in this world
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :lol:

Remember that bit about Germany conquering Europe and why it's fucking stupid? Take that and multiply it x5. THAT is how retarded it is. Others have already pointed out why the US won't help Japan, and they can be fucking gods among men, and they'd STILL fail to conquer as much as they did.

Look at how they fared in China OTL. Now Add Indonesia, SE Asia, INDIA to it, and you'll understand why you are being mocked.
11. not entirely sure why I went with Mauritania except for the fact that I remember a timeline I read once where they became a pirate superpower and that's probably why
Kid, you just might have less brains than my pet turtle, and my pet turtle is pretty dumb.
12. those other African nations were admittedly filler and I was running low on ideas
And you have the worldbuilding ability of a sack of potatoes.
13. and now you just descend into douchebaggery I simply made this map and timline for fun there's no reason to be a jerk though I do agree I need to work on this so I request the forum staff to lock this thread because this is probably going nowhere
Your request is denied.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Re: A Grim Stagnant World:An Earth Gone Horribly Wrong- A WIP

Posted: 2009-05-18 09:13pm
by iborg
To the OP : you know there is such a thing as punctuation, right ? You might be taken more seriously (apart from the obvious failures in your world-building) if you weren't writing like a barely literate 9 year old.