World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

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Arachnidus
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World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

I'll make this intro quick, seeing as this is my first SDN thread and my first story I've decided to put online. Hope you all enjoy it. I may expand upon it if there's a demand. This first story follows Barack Obama and most of the US cabinet in a war room, tucked away in Cheyenne Mountain. I aimed to put a great amount of realism and authenticity in, but I'm not perfect. The universe it is set in is based on that of Max Brooks' World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide.
August 3rd, 2013; Cheyenne Mountain Complex
President Barack Obama sat uncomfortably in his chair at the CMC. He wondered if anybody was comfortable anymore, given the circumstances. When he first ran for President of the United States in 2008, he hardly expected to be in this position. What President could? What man could? On today of all days, President Obama realized that he would go down in history as the leader of an America on the verge of collapse. It had been two years since the first infected were identified by Chinese military officers in a small village that probably didn't exist anymore. Barack wasn't informed of this until late 2011, when a nervous Director Panetta of the CIA walked into a meeting with the joint chiefs and gave them the news flat out. There was a virus that had only been encountered before in such numbers that the CDC didn't even think it was real. And it essentially created zombies. The director didn't say that exactly, but when he began showing videos of the infected, the president knew that's what everyone was thinking.

Two years later, and that horrifying thought was an even worse reality. Many postulated as to why the President's hair had gone gray in those few months. Little did they know, the burdens of command now included the knowledge that the dead were rising to feast on the living. As such, on July 5th, under a veil of secrecy, the first family and a majority of the essential White House staff was evacuated to Cheyenne Mountain, far away from the swarms. This was only a pitstop on the road to Hawaii, where the planned new capital was to be established. All these thoughts had raced through the President's mind, but it had only been a few seconds. Across the war room was General George Casey, the Joint Chief of the Army, Joe Biden, still up as Vice President after all this time, and the rest of the cabinet. They sat here to discuss what was unfolding in Yonkers. After everyone sat down, he stood and addressed the group.

"Good afternoon, everyone. I'm sure you've all been briefed about the course of the battle in Yonkers?" the President said, his cool attitude held perfectly. Around the room, solemn nods acknowledged the commander in chief. "Then you all know we're in trouble. General Casey, if you will?". With the motion, the president sat and the general rose. He pressed a button on a remote and a project on the table turned on and displayed a computer desk top. The group looked at the display, and, seeing nothing of interest, turned back to the general.

"Secretaries, Joint Chiefs, Mister President, today I'm tasked with giving you the worst news you'll hear for a long time. As you all know, yesterday the Yonkers plan, named Operation Return, was enacted. At two AM, combined Army, Marine and Airforce units were deployed into Yonkers, New York, along the Saw Mill River Parkway. Defensive positions were set up and our infantry and mechanized units began to dig in, as did on-site press. Miles away, two flights of F35s were scrambled to arrive after daybreak-". The general paused and pressed another button on the remote. UAV video showed what looked like a well prepared combat group assembling on the parkway and in the surrounding suburban terrain.

"After dawn, the entire force was set up and the horde reached the battlements". The UAV footage blinked out to show images of what looked like a group of shambling humans advancing on the frontline. At a glance, the President mentally remarked that there must have been at least three hundred of them. "After a bit of scouting, the individuals were confirmed to be infected. At six-oh-seven AM, eastern standard time, MLRS were fired at the oncoming combatants, to great effect." The images changed to show a scarred, but mostly cleared motorway. However, in the distance, one could easily see a solid wave that was undoubtedly the rest of the horde. "Two minutes later, the Paladins opened up on the approaching mass that you can all no doubt see. Several dozen of the undead were outright destroyed by the barrage. This was not enough. For some reason, the undead aren't affected by explosions as much as living beings are, something to do with their nervous systems being mostly nonfunctional". The image changed again, this time showing a battered group of the undead getting ever closer to the barricades. "It was at this time, six-twenty-three AM, that the main battlegroup began firing." With that, the whole room donned a dark, terrified mood.

The video loaded, and what was shown was a veritable massacre. The undead were being utterly torn apart by the barrage of tank/infantry fire and air support. As Blackhawks and Comanches circled overhead, firing into the mass of humanity gone wrong, the forces on the ground unleashed absolute hell on the approaching swarm. The UAV saw only carnage, muzzle flare and explosions. The only sounds were moans being drowned out by constant weapons fire. Smoke covered the area, and a haze of gray/red-ish debris obscured the bulk of the forward mass of infected. The fire died down, and the moans picked up. The UAV zoomed in on the frontline soldiers, a mix of Marines and armymen, still using desert camouflage and some, likely squad leaders, wearing prototype Land Warrior helmets. The avant-garde soundtrack of moans and gunfire was broken by a voice. "This is Sergeant Miller of the 75th. We've gotta fall back to the APCs, pull out of the buildings. They're still coming!". With that command, the frontline units began retreating steadily back as disfigured bodies emerged from the smoke. Clearly, very little of that fire had actually resulted in deaths. There were infected dragging themselves towards soldiers, some with only one arm. It had only been ten minutes since the force had opened fire, but the infected still went on.

On the screen, the UAV saw utter chaos. In the distance, the F35s were visible and from the speakers, all one could hear were moans, occasional gunshots, and screams from the ground units(both over Land Warrior and merely picked up by the Global Hawk's external microphone). Orders were being barked over the radio, but they were mostly impossible to hear. The UAV had navigated itself into a position where one could see the entire battlefield, and a full view of the parkway. As soldiers ran back for their APCs and news vans struggled to get out, some even slamming into tanks, each other or even the reporters they drove, the undead horde advanced, a few only stopping to feast on the men and women that lagged behind the rest of their comrades. The mass stretched all the way back to New York itself, it seemed. In the distance, Manhattan was visible. The city was burning in some areas, smoke plumes visible. Then, all of a sudden, a clear voice was heard. Whether it was mental that nobody in the room could hear the soldiers before, perhaps blocking out the cries of fear, or technical, there was someone talking now. "THE HOUSES! THEY'RE COMING OUT OF THE FUCKING HOUSES! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE, THE LINE IS BROKEN!" With that, the F35s streaked over the Hawk and dropped one package each. This resulted in three Joint Strike Weapons being detonated in Yonkers. The video ended and the General arose once more.

"Twelve hours ago, we reestablished contact with the surviving forces. The JSFs had limited success and friendly fire was a big problem. Yonkers is overrun, as is most of the tristate area. We have growing swarms all over the east coast, and contained outbreaks in the west. Our military is unprepared to fight this battle. As of yesterday, the United States Army was routed. Morale was bad before the battle, it's worse now. We've got units going AWOL all over the damn place, and our boys just weren't trained, equipped or armed to fight this enemy."

The room was dead silent. Nobody dared say a word, even if anybody knew what to say. This went beyond bad. This was a total, complete cluster fuck like none before. Secretary Clinton looked up at the General and broke the silence.

"George, how bad were the casualties?" she said. She glanced at the President, and Barack could clearly see the fear in her eyes.

"Madam secretary, we're looking at 70% of the ground force KIA or MIA. Roughly 1302 confirmed civilian casualties from the surrounding area, over 1500 military casualties infantry wise, and we lost around 20 tanks to the JSFs and the horde. The artillery units were abandoned when our men retreated." With every word, it seemed like the room became more dreadful. By the time the general was done speaking, everyone in the room had the same face; sullen and grim. Only the President and a few top ranking military officials held their poker faces up. Nobody had seen carnage like this before. There were so many war veterans in the room, but none of them had ever fought in a war where your enemy was already dead. In the back of the room, one of the President's aides vomited into a trash can and rushed out of the room. "And those are just the ones that we've been able to confirm. As I said, 70%. We sent a force of over 10,000 strong to secure the entire region. Most of those were concentrated around Yonkers. The final casualty report is due by tonight, but anywhere from 5000-7000 KIA should be expected. The armored divisions took significantly less casualties, as I said, only 20 out of the 100 or so Abrams deployed were too damaged to be recovered, and the Bradleys are all intact, more or less."

"And the horde? How big is it?"

"Current estimates place the central mass at over 1.2 million undead, not counting outlying groups and most of the NYC swarm." More gasps . This was truly the darkest hour in recent history. "At this point, epidemiologists at the CDC are estimating somewhere between ten and thirteen million undead nation wide, and possibly upwards of 500 million on the entire planet. We cannot confirm the second figure due to a significant lack of intel since the first major outbreaks six months ago. The CIA is coordinating with MI6 to get a total scope of the situation, but no matter what it is, it will not be good."

With that final note, President Obama motioned to the general and he sat down. Once again, as the military fell the politician rose and Barack began his improvised speech.

"That's the situation, ladies and gentlemen. We are facing a disaster unmatched in human history. The Canadians have sealed their borders and there has been no contact with the Mexican government since last week. The United Kingdom has declared an utter state of emergency, and Israel is busy managing it's own outbreaks, which are significantly smaller since their self quarantine. For the past three days we've met in this room to come up with a back up plan. In twenty minutes, I'm going on national television to tell somewhere in the area of 80% of the country that we're abandoning them. Does anybody have any words to say?"

Silence. Just silence. Nobody had their heads up, and nobody even thought say a word. In twenty minutes, they would all be signing their souls to the devil.

"Very well then."
Brooklyn, New York
Winston was 15, but he felt like he'd aged years since the first outbreak in the city. That was three months ago. And now, he sat in his living room, the door bolted shut, the staircase to his house demolished and replaced with a rope, and the windows covered. He didn't know where his parents were. His friends were upstairs looking for whatever water they could find and store. It all felt like some horrible dream. And now, the emergency broadcast system on most channels was replaced with the seal of the Office of the President. The seal disappeared, and on the screen, sat President Obama. He too, looked as if he had aged years, his hair turned mostly gray. What Winston heard next didn't scare him. It just reaffirmed what he and his friends knew; they were on their own now. Things didn't look good, but all they could do was hope to survive.

"My fellow Americans, today marks what may be the single worst disaster since Pearl Harbor, and the worst day in US history. With the strategic failure of the armed forces in Yonkers yesterday, and reports of riots and outbreaks of the disease now known as Solanum rapidly encompassing the eastern portion of the United States, we have begun a massive retreat west. A defense line is being established along the Rocky Mountains going southwards towards the Mexican border, and we are reestablishing the government in Hawaii. To those of you left in your homes and shelters in the East, know this; you are not alone. We are going to come back for you. We are going to save you. We will televise updates as they are available, and the news channels still left will not be replaced with the Emergency Broadcast System. Remain calm, stay in your homes and reinforce them. Following this message, a list of symptoms of the virus, how it is passed on and a map of the nation showing the retreat will be displayed, and repeated for the next three hours. May god watch over all of us."
Last edited by Arachnidus on 2010-07-17 01:46pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Chris OFarrell
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Chris OFarrell »

Thats a shame.

I thought you might have actually been going to write WWZ to have something like a REAL Battle of Yonkers where everyone from the Generals to the soliders don't take stupid pills in overdose levels before the battle happens and do everything they possibly can to loose the battle they should have won with their eyes closed, one hand tied behind their back and most of the troops taking time out to watch SG1 reruns on their iPods...

Still I can see your following the canon as it happened to set up your story. Thats your choice, but personally, I think the aftermath is grossly exagerated in the reactions of the people in the room. The JCS are NOT going to break down in tears when told about the casulaties, they are just simply too professional for that. Stone faced cold looks would be more appropraite.

And their response to such a fiasco would be probably to *strongly* suggest that based on the fact that most of the US army is apparently gone and there is no way to stop said swarms from consolidating, would be simply to nuke the core concentrations, to quite literally cauterize the wounds with minimal damage to the rest of the country where you can get away with it, give time for the armed forces to regroup. Its a fuckload better plan than retrating across HALF THE COUNTRY and giving up all your logistical and manufacturing bases, all the agriculture you'll need to keep your people alive and frankly its not going to make a huge difference to the zombies at any rate given what they have been said to survive...


Of course, I'm mostly just ranting at the stupidity that is WWZ here. And you are mostly just setting up the canon as it happened in WWZ for your own fic, so it really depends on where you go from here.

But you have inspired me to write my OWN Battle of Yonkers fanfic where its done RIGHT for a change, so... :D
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

Chris OFarrell wrote:Thats a shame.

I thought you might have actually been going to write WWZ to have something like a REAL Battle of Yonkers where everyone from the Generals to the soliders don't take stupid pills in overdose levels before the battle happens and do everything they possibly can to loose the battle they should have won with their eyes closed, one hand tied behind their back and most of the troops taking time out to watch SG1 reruns on their iPods...

Still I can see your following the canon as it happened to set up your story. Thats your choice, but personally, I think the aftermath is grossly exagerated in the reactions of the people in the room. The JCS are NOT going to break down in tears when told about the casulaties, they are just simply too professional for that. Stone faced cold looks would be more appropraite.

And their response to such a fiasco would be probably to *strongly* suggest that based on the fact that most of the US army is apparently gone and there is no way to stop said swarms from consolidating, would be simply to nuke the core concentrations, to quite literally cauterize the wounds with minimal damage to the rest of the country where you can get away with it, give time for the armed forces to regroup. Its a fuckload better plan than retrating across HALF THE COUNTRY and giving up all your logistical and manufacturing bases, all the agriculture you'll need to keep your people alive and frankly its not going to make a huge difference to the zombies at any rate given what they have been said to survive...


Of course, I'm mostly just ranting at the stupidity that is WWZ here. And you are mostly just setting up the canon as it happened in WWZ for your own fic, so it really depends on where you go from here.

But you have inspired me to write my OWN Battle of Yonkers fanfic where its done RIGHT for a change, so... :D
Well, with the strong reactions, I went a bit overboard on them and I'm gonna chop them down, but the big thing is, they're not just hearing about the casualties, they've seen them. They've even been affected by them. No matter who they are, seeing walking corpses devour someone is likely going to shake you to the bone. From a psychological standpoint, that's what makes zombies such a good horror component. They're death incarnate. They're us, but perverted and wrong, some divine screw up or a product of a virus who got too good for our sake.

And yeah, agreed that it's somewhat farfetched, but I'm going to work with the fact that WWZ left a lot of room for interpretation. To that end, I'm going with the idea that the defeat is only so big a problem because the outbreaks are getting worse nation wide, and morale's basically shot to hell.

Also, if you pursue that BoY FF, I'll be glad to read it :D.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Mobius IO »

I liked WWZ except for the Battle of Yonkers which has always driven me crazy.

Having said that I think what you've done is well written and I'm interested to see where you go with it. I'd suggest toning down the reaction of the JCS though, I can't really see them openly crying.

I've always thought it would have been a lot better for the Battle of Yonkers to be a resounding but ultimately futile military success undercut by increasing common outbreaks across the nation.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

Mobius IO wrote:I liked WWZ except for the Battle of Yonkers which has always driven me crazy.

Having said that I think what you've done is well written and I'm interested to see where you go with it. I'd suggest toning down the reaction of the JCS though, I can't really see them openly crying.

I've always thought it would have been a lot better for the Battle of Yonkers to be a resounding but ultimately futile military success undercut by increasing common outbreaks across the nation.
I've edited it, and I'm probably going to change it radically in the next few hours. Same core, a few major differences all based on feedback and a few thoughts I've got. I've down-scaled the response, though. Hope you guys like the revisions.

And for the sake of the expanded universe with World War Z, I'm probably going to do another chapter later, revolving around the European theater, which I thought lacked a bit of true attention.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Chris OFarrell »

Better, 'sullen and grim' works better.

Although you could easily have the civies loose control and cry :)
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

Chris OFarrell wrote:Better, 'sullen and grim' works better.

Although you could easily have the civies loose control and cry :)
You sadistic, brilliant bastard! ...one step ahead of ya 8). The first chapter still needs a lot of polish, obviously, but I'm thinking up ideas for the next. Right now, aiming for either SAS without the weaboo or a lowly grunt in Her Majesty's Army. Two extremes, but there is the thought; what exactly does a special forces unit get up to when zombies are about?


Or, even better, and credits to the debate in the Pantheocide thread for this one; SBS. In a battle where the enemy has no maritime capabilities or static positions, they're left with little to do, but we're still talking zombies. Things could get very interesting, if done properly.
Last edited by Arachnidus on 2010-07-16 07:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by declan »

[quote="Arachnidus] but there is the thought; what exactly does a special forces unit get up to when zombies are about?[/quote]


Gauge the level of infection in the region, find and rally any survivors, provide what ever medical care they can to the uninfected and call in shake and bakes.

Once the fast movers have left the area, conduct Battle damage assesment and cover search and rescue missions if any of the planes go down.

Lastly , procure specimens for the lab types and deploy what ever the pointy heads come up with in response to the specimen testing.

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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

declan wrote:[quote="Arachnidus] but there is the thought; what exactly does a special forces unit get up to when zombies are about?

Gauge the level of infection in the region, find and rally any survivors, provide what ever medical care they can to the uninfected and call in shake and bakes.

Once the fast movers have left the area, conduct Battle damage assesment and cover search and rescue missions if any of the planes go down.

Lastly , procure specimens for the lab types and deploy what ever the pointy heads come up with in response to the specimen testing.

Declan[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Oh the ideas. Hmm. Redeker Plan+SAS.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Gerald Tarrant »

Mobius IO wrote:I liked WWZ except for the Battle of Yonkers which has always driven me crazy. <snip>

I've always thought it would have been a lot better for the Battle of Yonkers to be a resounding but ultimately futile military success undercut by increasing common outbreaks across the nation.
Yeah. Yonker's has always been the weakest part of the book for me. The description includes a major chunk of the swarm coming down the highway. And I always find myself wondering why they didn't have lines of A-10's going the other way playing Ride of the Valkyries at full blast. Sure if it doesn't get hit in the head the zombie will keep going, but a torso and two arms are a much worse infection vector than a relatively intact zombie.

I don't recall the original Yonkers battle mentioning Bradleys and their Bushmaster. So for some perspective on size Link. I always pictured a hypothetical Yonkers something like 1 shot 30 hits (when in packed cheek to jowl full swarm mode).

The last thing that always bugged me was the way zombies shrug off damage. Sure I'll grant that they don't feel pain, but they don't heal either so imagine a zombie, with 15 or twenty holes in it's torso, due to overpenetration or whatever. That's 15 or 20 chunks of skeletal muscle or leg muscle that have been removed, they aren't magic; suddenly the remaining muscle is insufficient to tolerate the strain, and the zombie can't hold itself upright any longer, or use that leg. So shrapnel should cause more "mission kills" on zombies. Fine it's not "dead" but it's not moving very much anymore either, and so it's much less of a threat.

It was a fun book though, and I look forward to seeing how someone else did their own interpretation of Yonkers and its aftermath.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by declan »

Gerald Tarrant wrote:Yeah. Yonker's has always been the weakest part of the book for me. The description includes a major chunk of the swarm coming down the highway. And I always find myself wondering why they didn't have lines of A-10's going the other way playing Ride of the Valkyries at full blast. Sure if it doesn't get hit in the head the zombie will keep going, but a torso and two arms are a much worse infection vector than a relatively intact zombie.
I think that the A-10s going line abreast would probably not be the greatest idea, unless these things will actually feel fear and be routed. Even with naplam and the 30 mm, you get a couple of thousand hard dead, and still have a couple of hundred thousand coming at you.



Gerald Tarrant wrote:The last thing that always bugged me was the way zombies shrug off damage. Sure I'll grant that they don't feel pain, but they don't heal either so imagine a zombie, with 15 or twenty holes in it's torso, due to overpenetration or whatever. That's 15 or 20 chunks of skeletal muscle or leg muscle that have been removed, they aren't magic; suddenly the remaining muscle is insufficient to tolerate the strain, and the zombie can't hold itself upright any longer, or use that leg. So shrapnel should cause more "mission kills" on zombies. Fine it's not "dead" but it's not moving very much anymore either, and so it's much less of a threa
Take the cannons right off the brads, replace with flame throwers. Bring out those m-113's (air defense variant) with the gatling guns and modify if needed for flat trajectory. For the abrams, I would either keep the 120 and bring out the beehive round till a better designed tank gets developed, and convert alot of them to mine clearance with the flail and add chain saws to the flanks of the abrams, that would fold out like switch blades.

Bring out a new version of the cluster bomb that would deploy caltrops, lots of caltrops.

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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

Just a little something I thought up while I was toying with some new edits to the first post.

Melbourne, Australia; August 7th, 2013

Tomas Griswold was having a bit of an odd night. Aside from the disturbingly well enforced curfew and the virus that made the dead stand up and dance, his life was pretty normal. He went to the local pub, had a few drinks and then walked right back out, drunk off his ass. This became a much harder routine since the Americans fucked up majorly. Australia had the lowest concentration of outbreaks of any country on the planet, yet they were locked down even worse than Israel, and that's saying a lot, considering the country was now walled in. This didn't alarm Tomas so much as it annoyed him. Unlike his friends and family, who stocked up on food, water and weapons when Incheon went belly up, Tomas chose to exercise the better part of valor and go down fighting with his bare hands. Being a retired SASR officer, and having fought in Afghanistan and Iraq, he thought he could handle himself. And so, when the news of the undead became widespread and everyone started hiding in their shelters, he decided to violate every law pertaining to the new curfew and got completely hammered every night. If the world was burning, he might as well burn with it. Then we come to tonight.

August seventh would forever remain in Tomas' mind as the day when he was pulled back into active service, drank six shots of whiskey off a university girl's ass, and killed his first zombie. As he was stumbling home from the underworld that became the previously high caliber Melbourne nightlife, fresh off his first sexual encounter in six months, he couldn't help but feel jovial. His luck, however, turned sour at around 10 when he was stuck at a checkpoint, heading back to his apartment. Shit. Well, there goes my license. The dead may be rising, but nothing was as annoying as a drunk driving charge. His car was third in line to be screened by Australian Army troops and that gave him roughly five minutes to attempt to sober up, to no avail. One car was ahead now, and then he'd have to not only explain the box of ammo and USP that he kept in his Range Rover's boot, but that he was driving intoxicated, in a car, with a gun, against curfew rules. Or he would have, if the car ahead didn't have something moving underneath a blanket in the back.

Oh fuck. Don't tell me the stupid cunt driving that piece of shit actually thought he could get away with one of THEM in the back?

Even though he was drunk off his ass, Tomas still had enough working brain cells to ensure that he wasn't completely disarmed. The soldiers formed up on the back of the Toyota only four meters ahead of him. Another soldier walked towards his car and instructed him to back up and take the alternate route home. Tomas was about to comply, when his common sense kicked in. The movement under that tarp couldn't just be one zed. The seats are folded, giving enough room for someone to tie up and stow maybe two or three. So much for an uneventful night. Tomas sighed and stepped out of his car, carrying his military ID. In the poor illumination, the grunt that was about to begin barking orders was shut up, as he couldn't notice the date stamped on the ID. "Tomas Griswold, Third Squadron SAS, so shut up and let me go to my trunk." The soldier backed off and allowed Tomas to proceed, seeing as it was late at night and when someone pulls rank and file on you while a pack of undead may be in the back of a car only a few feet way, you generally want to make sure you've got as many guns as possible. The unnamed grunt(Tomas couldn't be assed to look at his tag) turned to his comrades and spoke.

"Alright, we're going to pop the hatch in ten."

As soon as he yelled that, the driver of the Toyota hopped out of the old, rocking car and begin yelling. He was asian, likely Chinese, probably smuggled in once the blight started spreading. He obviously couldn't speak much English, and in fear, ran up to the soldier and began screaming.

"RENSHE! Gǎnrǎn! Gǎnrǎn!" he barked. Another soldier came off the checkpoint in the dark, empty street and pushed the man onto a wall, then put handcuffs on him. Tomas didn't know much Chinese, only a few words in Cantanese, but knew what Gǎnrǎn meant.

"Boys, you've got infected in there."

(I'm going to continue Mr. Griswold's story later on, I'm tired and pretty sure a good majority of this one is going to need maintenance. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did writing it, though.)
Last edited by Arachnidus on 2010-07-17 05:40am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Razor One »

**nitpick**

Aussies do not call the "Trunk" of the car the "Trunk" they call it a "Boot" due to British influence and history. The only reason an Aussie would call a boot a trunk is if they've been thoroughly Americanised.

**nitpick mode off**
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.


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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by westrim »

It's important to remember that the fatal error at Yonkers canonically wasn't the bad tactics, the clusterfuck of supplies, the inappropriate for the mission weapons, etc., it was the drastic undersupply of ammo, and inefficient use of what they did have. Regardless of what you might think of Brook's interpretation of military preparedness and tactics (and I think a lot of things), that one error was fatal no matter what, and could quite easily happen.

I am uncomfortable with the melding of our reality and a 2006 hypothesis of the future that renders Obama as president. The book was pretty clear that the next president was Romney or McCain or some other Old White Male.

On the book, one of it's strengths was that it left you wanting much more, and that what it covered you felt was covered. It might be best to cut imagery of Yonkers entirely and focus solely on the reactions of those watching it go to... pieces. Let the book tell us what happened on the ground there, you just tell us how people reacted.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

westrim wrote:It's important to remember that the fatal error at Yonkers canonically wasn't the bad tactics, the clusterfuck of supplies, the inappropriate for the mission weapons, etc., it was the drastic undersupply of ammo, and inefficient use of what they did have. Regardless of what you might think of Brook's interpretation of military preparedness and tactics (and I think a lot of things), that one error was fatal no matter what, and could quite easily happen.

I am uncomfortable with the melding of our reality and a 2006 hypothesis of the future that renders Obama as president. The book was pretty clear that the next president was Romney or McCain or some other Old White Male.

On the book, one of it's strengths was that it left you wanting much more, and that what it covered you felt was covered. It might be best to cut imagery of Yonkers entirely and focus solely on the reactions of those watching it go to... pieces. Let the book tell us what happened on the ground there, you just tell us how people reacted.
In World War Z, the interview with The Whacko (who, if I remember correctly, would be essentially Biden), it was mentioned that "The Big Guy" was African American. It was geared more towards modeling him after Colin Powell, but the point still stands, especially with The Great Panic beginning right at the end of Obama's first term and the beginning of the Second.

And that's an interesting point. I think I'm going to try that out. Edit coming soon.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Arachnidus wrote:I aimed to put a great amount of realism and authenticity in, but I'm not perfect.
The universe it is set in is based on that of Max Brooks' World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide.
These are mutually exclusive goals. Especially if you want to include the retarded idiocy of Yonkers where overpressure doesn't work, but a helicopter's blades do. (Hint: Overpressure can shatter concrete and a human body is sufficiently dense enough to shatter helicopter blades)
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

General Schatten wrote:
Arachnidus wrote:I aimed to put a great amount of realism and authenticity in, but I'm not perfect.
The universe it is set in is based on that of Max Brooks' World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide.
These are mutually exclusive goals. Especially if you want to include the retarded idiocy of Yonkers where overpressure doesn't work, but a helicopter's blades do. (Hint: Overpressure can shatter concrete and a human body is sufficiently dense enough to shatter helicopter blades)
That's what I've been hearing. Hows about this, I'm ebbing more towards keeping the canon story, but from there on everything else is going to be more or less realistic. I plan on rewriting the entire Yonkers scene anyway.

Thanks for the feedback everybody. Hope there's more to come.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Mayabird »

Arachnidus wrote:
westrim wrote:It's important to remember that the fatal error at Yonkers canonically wasn't the bad tactics, the clusterfuck of supplies, the inappropriate for the mission weapons, etc., it was the drastic undersupply of ammo, and inefficient use of what they did have. Regardless of what you might think of Brook's interpretation of military preparedness and tactics (and I think a lot of things), that one error was fatal no matter what, and could quite easily happen.

I am uncomfortable with the melding of our reality and a 2006 hypothesis of the future that renders Obama as president. The book was pretty clear that the next president was Romney or McCain or some other Old White Male.

On the book, one of it's strengths was that it left you wanting much more, and that what it covered you felt was covered. It might be best to cut imagery of Yonkers entirely and focus solely on the reactions of those watching it go to... pieces. Let the book tell us what happened on the ground there, you just tell us how people reacted.
In World War Z, the interview with The Whacko (who, if I remember correctly, would be essentially Biden), it was mentioned that "The Big Guy" was African American. It was geared more towards modeling him after Colin Powell, but the point still stands, especially with The Great Panic beginning right at the end of Obama's first term and the beginning of the Second.

And that's an interesting point. I think I'm going to try that out. Edit coming soon.
It damn well was Colin Powell. They even made mention once about how he was so focused on his work that he never tried to find out if any of his relatives in Jamaica had survived (his parents were Jamaican immigrants). And *whoever it was* that was president when the zombie outbreak started pretty clearly had Karl Rove on his staff.

Why not just say "this is a slightly alternate history" and be done with it?
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by westrim »

Mayabird wrote:
Arachnidus wrote: In World War Z, the interview with The Whacko (who, if I remember correctly, would be essentially Biden), it was mentioned that "The Big Guy" was African American. It was geared more towards modeling him after Colin Powell, but the point still stands, especially with The Great Panic beginning right at the end of Obama's first term and the beginning of the Second.

And that's an interesting point. I think I'm going to try that out. Edit coming soon.
It damn well was Colin Powell. They even made mention once about how he was so focused on his work that he never tried to find out if any of his relatives in Jamaica had survived (his parents were Jamaican immigrants). And *whoever it was* that was president when the zombie outbreak started pretty clearly had Karl Rove on his staff.

Why not just say "this is a slightly alternate history" and be done with it?
Er, guys, Colin Powell became president after the Great Panic. They got to Hawaii, had an argument over whether to suspend elections for the duration and decided no, then elected Powell The Big Guy and Howard Dean The Whacko, with some other black guy (possibly Obama) not getting to be VP because they already had one of "those people"- eg. blacks. During Yonkers, it was still the Old White Male in charge (I always figured it was Romney.) Whoever the OWM was, they were not the person who started the 'brushfire wars', but their successor, so I always figured the time span for the first part of the war was 2009-2013, with Powell elected in 2012. That can all be changed, but that's the canon.

And of course it's alt. history- Comanches are flying around and LandWarrior being used (it is interesting that only some, and only squad leaders, are using that here, when it seemed that Brooks had it as general issue.) But the question is who's running things in this Alt. History.

Yes, I am slightly annoyed that I'm pulling this off the top of my head (should really be reserved for more important things), but my copy is confirming it.
General Schatten wrote:
These are mutually exclusive goals. Especially if you want to include the retarded idiocy of Yonkers where overpressure doesn't work, but a helicopter's blades do. (Hint: Overpressure can shatter concrete and a human body is sufficiently dense enough to shatter helicopter blades)
Of course it can, but not in the same range it kills humans. Brooks said it's effectiveness was reduced, not eliminated. And helicopter blades don't work either, the pilot just got lucky for a few seconds- the interviewee said how insanely stupid (yet brave) a thing it was to do.
Arachnidus wrote: That's what I've been hearing. Hows about this, I'm ebbing more towards keeping the canon story, but from there on everything else is going to be more or less realistic. I plan on rewriting the entire Yonkers scene anyway.

Thanks for the feedback everybody. Hope there's more to come.
Alright, that works. Just don't have the zombies start shooting back or something. :D And thanks for writing this.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Arachnidus »

westrim wrote:
Mayabird wrote:
Arachnidus wrote: In World War Z, the interview with The Whacko (who, if I remember correctly, would be essentially Biden), it was mentioned that "The Big Guy" was African American. It was geared more towards modeling him after Colin Powell, but the point still stands, especially with The Great Panic beginning right at the end of Obama's first term and the beginning of the Second.

And that's an interesting point. I think I'm going to try that out. Edit coming soon.
It damn well was Colin Powell. They even made mention once about how he was so focused on his work that he never tried to find out if any of his relatives in Jamaica had survived (his parents were Jamaican immigrants). And *whoever it was* that was president when the zombie outbreak started pretty clearly had Karl Rove on his staff.

Why not just say "this is a slightly alternate history" and be done with it?
Er, guys, Colin Powell became president after the Great Panic. They got to Hawaii, had an argument over whether to suspend elections for the duration and decided no, then elected Powell The Big Guy and Howard Dean The Whacko, with some other black guy (possibly Obama) not getting to be VP because they already had one of "those people"- eg. blacks. During Yonkers, it was still the Old White Male in charge (I always figured it was Romney.) Whoever the OWM was, they were not the person who started the 'brushfire wars', but their successor, so I always figured the time span for the first part of the war was 2009-2013, with Powell elected in 2012. That can all be changed, but that's the canon.

And of course it's alt. history- Comanches are flying around and LandWarrior being used (it is interesting that only some, and only squad leaders, are using that here, when it seemed that Brooks had it as general issue.) But the question is who's running things in this Alt. History.

Yes, I am slightly annoyed that I'm pulling this off the top of my head (should really be reserved for more important things), but my copy is confirming it.
General Schatten wrote:
These are mutually exclusive goals. Especially if you want to include the retarded idiocy of Yonkers where overpressure doesn't work, but a helicopter's blades do. (Hint: Overpressure can shatter concrete and a human body is sufficiently dense enough to shatter helicopter blades)
Of course it can, but not in the same range it kills humans. Brooks said it's effectiveness was reduced, not eliminated. And helicopter blades don't work either, the pilot just got lucky for a few seconds- the interviewee said how insanely stupid (yet brave) a thing it was to do.
Arachnidus wrote: That's what I've been hearing. Hows about this, I'm ebbing more towards keeping the canon story, but from there on everything else is going to be more or less realistic. I plan on rewriting the entire Yonkers scene anyway.

Thanks for the feedback everybody. Hope there's more to come.
Alright, that works. Just don't have the zombies start shooting back or something. :D And thanks for writing this.
My pleasure. And I won't, I'm not that insane.

As for my reasoning behind the limited usage of Land Warrior, I'm trying to keep the WWZniverse as close to reality as possible. As we are all demonstrating, World War Z was written in 2006, things have changed. And that's not counting the obvious flaws with certain reasoning. In my mind, I see that if Land Warrior makes it into the field by 2013, it's likely going to see limited use at first, and probably only for use between squad leaders, so as to coordinate attacks better. In the end, though, it doesn't really work out that well against the undead. Principle changes that I can currently say will be made from the original literature to my ff are these-
-Soldiers will not use MOPP suits at Yonkers. The government had enough time to realize the virus wasn't airborne, it's stupid to assume that they'd send them out in full NBC gear.
-I am keeping the current government structure. We're of course working with an alternate history as it is, but I want to work within the confines of reality.
-Tibet is NOT going to be the most populous country on Earth post-war, I don't care how secure they became. Guess where all the Chinese refugees would run after the outbreaks? Guess how many were infected. It's grim.
I-'m still a little indecisive about the nuclear exchange between Iran and Pakistan. I want to keep it, but it's so farfetched an idea that it might be better to just leave that out.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

westrim wrote:Of course it can, but not in the same range it kills humans. Brooks said it's effectiveness was reduced, not eliminated. And helicopter blades don't work either, the pilot just got lucky for a few seconds- the interviewee said how insanely stupid (yet brave) a thing it was to do.
If they it is not as effective then they are denser than humans, if they are denser than humans that pilot should have hit the first rank, busted a blade, and slammed into the ground. It's A or B, you don't get both if you want realism. The author can say what he wants, the Battle of Yonkers was the most mind-numbing thing I've ever seen from the Zombie Fandom and that's a lot of really insipid shit.
Arachnidus wrote:As for my reasoning behind the limited usage of Land Warrior, I'm trying to keep the WWZniverse as close to reality as possible.
Then the Battle of Yonkers should be an easy success just as the Army predicted.
As we are all demonstrating, World War Z was written in 2006, things have changed. And that's not counting the obvious flaws with certain reasoning.
If you're going for realism, present the King of Battle as he was intended: Violently crushing large formations.
I'm still a little indecisive about the nuclear exchange between Iran and Pakistan. I want to keep it, but it's so farfetched an idea that it might be better to just leave that out.
Where did Pakistan get enough resources to even attempt a nuclear exchange with Iran in under three years?
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Mobius IO »

I like the re-write much better. :D

Edit: The Battle of Yonkers is still awful but I understand why you're keeping it "as written". Honestly though I'd love to read a zombie story where the armed forces aren't inexplicably useless.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by westrim »

General Schatten wrote:If they it is not as effective then they are denser than humans, if they are denser than humans that pilot should have hit the first rank, busted a blade, and slammed into the ground. It's A or B, you don't get both if you want realism. The author can say what he wants, the Battle of Yonkers was the most mind-numbing thing I've ever seen from the Zombie Fandom and that's a lot of really insipid shit.
Down boy, don't get so worked up. No one's going to give you a cookie for haranguing the author. Now, so far as we know human density = zombie density. The pilot was still surely fucked, the vehicle he hit just made that happen more quickly. We don't know how long or how far he did it. And you have to remember, for the story the military needed to lose that battle. He could and probably should have not added all the extra fuckups, but the ammo issue alone would have doomed the enterprise.
Then the Battle of Yonkers should be an easy success just as the Army predicted.
He's still trying to keep the major points of the war, and the defeat at Yonkers was one of them.
If you're going for realism, present the King of Battle as he was intended: Violently crushing large formations.
Artillery isn't mentioned in the book, and there's still the issue of ammo. Plus, with only 10,000 troops and most of those apparently infantry, they couldn't have had very many units.
Where did Pakistan get enough resources to even attempt a nuclear exchange with Iran in under three years?
I presume you meant to flip that, since Pakistan already has nukes and the missiles to fire them. Iran however is extremely unlikely to complete their program in that timeframe.
Mobius IO wrote:The Battle of Yonkers is still awful but I understand why you're keeping it "as written". Honestly though I'd love to read a zombie story where the armed forces aren't inexplicably useless.
Now that bugs me. Great detail is gone onto as to the mistakes that were made leading to the defeat at Yonkers. You and I may disagree with them, but there was an explanation- it was not "inexplicable." Opinions and mistakes are fine, misrepresentations are not.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by Simon_Jester »

I think the best thing to do, artistically, would be to rewrite Yonkers. Have the Army succeed in flattening the zombie wave coming out of Manhattan with the combination of vehicle-mounted heavy weapons and artillery (not so much air support) a lá Salvation War, but have it not matter, because by this point there is no secure rear area. Zombies are popping up everywhere and causing painful disruptions all over the place. Factories producing war materiel are going offline as key workers are zombified or killed by zombie attacks. Cities are not secure, and urban refugee populations make rural areas non-secure.

Eventually, in spite of having great success at killing mass zombie wave attacks whenever they materialize, the Army finds itself running low on advanced munitions (simply for want of a production line for them), with much of the country overrun. The decision to pull back west of the Rockies and largely abandon the eastern United States has nothing to do with large groups of soldiers getting their asses kicked by mobs of zombies, and everything to do with the inability to keep the Eastern seaboard secure.

So the military concentrates as much manpower as possible on making certain areas entirely zombie-free and moving as many refugees as possible into those areas, as per the Redeker Plan.

And, again, this isn't motivated by their inability to kill large hordes of zombies (which they'd have never lost); it's about their inability to fight an opponent that by now is hopelessly mixed in with the population they're trying to protect... which is essentially the same problem the rest of the world's militaries are shown as having.
declan wrote:Take the cannons right off the brads, replace with flame throwers.
Why bother? The flamethrower is marginally more effective but is going to have less than 10% of the range.
Bring out those m-113's (air defense variant) with the gatling guns and modify if needed for flat trajectory. For the abrams, I would either keep the 120 and bring out the beehive round till a better designed tank gets developed, and convert alot of them to mine clearance with the flail and add chain saws to the flanks of the abrams, that would fold out like switch blades.
[blinks]
Why?

Adding mine flails to a tank in this situation is gilding the lily; a tank is perfectly capable of crushing any number of zombies it runs over without a big heavy failure-prone piece of equipment hanging off the front of the tank. The chainsaws are just... not good. They're unnecessary, less deadly than a machine gun fired from a range of several hundred meters, and again failure prone.

You do NOT design these vehicles for melee combat; there's no point.
Bring out a new version of the cluster bomb that would deploy caltrops, lots of caltrops.
Caltrops aren't a good choice against zombies, because they rely very heavily on pain and on forcing an enemy to move slowly due to foot damage. Zombies already move pretty slowly, and pain doesn't slow them down unless it comes with massive physical damage. So mines that blow feet off are much, much more effective against them than caltrops, and cluster bomblets that actually explode in the middle of a zombie force are better still.
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Re: World War Z: The War Room (a short story+zombies)

Post by declan »

Simon_Jester wrote:Why bother? The flamethrower is marginally more effective but is going to have less than 10% of the range.
Mainly because the Bradley carrys 300 ready rounds of ammo for the 25mm and a variety of other ammo types for the 50 and 30 cal. For zombie stomping, does range really mean all that much ? I doubt that any general is going to commit that many hulls to carry the zippo, so your going to end up with a mixture of gunsels and zippos and taxi's.

It really seemed more like an easy add on force multiplier.
Bring out those m-113's (air defense variant) with the gatling guns and modify if needed for flat trajectory. For the abrams, I would either keep the 120 and bring out the beehive round till a better designed tank gets developed, and convert alot of them to mine clearance with the flail and add chain saws to the flanks of the abrams, that would fold out like switch blades.
Simon_Jester wrote:Blinks
Why?

Adding mine flails to a tank in this situation is gilding the lily; a tank is perfectly capable of crushing any number of zombies it runs over without a big heavy failure-prone piece of equipment hanging off the front of the tank. The chainsaws are just... not good. They're unnecessary, less deadly than a machine gun fired from a range of several hundred meters, and again failure prone.

You do NOT design these vehicles for melee combat; there's no point.
For those who dont know what the Flail is http://imagineddesires.com I posted three pictures on my site, from a world war 2 english tank. Their purpose was , to beat the ground ahead of the tank and detonate any landmine that had been placed. I work in a tier 3 auto factory
and the chain links on the pictures are approximately the same size as our 10k chains for the crane ( for lifting steel coils).

My thought was that zombie's would have no tactics, straight forward lurching to what ever, food, brains, I dont know. In open ground, artillery would probably be the option to go with, but again, the M1 abrams only has 40 or so rounds of ammunition for the 120. What do you go with sabot ? heat,hesh, splat.

Clearing out urban infestations, your probably going be down to melee fighting anyways. I can see just leveling some citys, but on the east coast i dont see the army razing historic towns or writing off industrial infrastructure. Chain saws and buzz saws on the tanks, I'm not really wedded to that idea, too much looking at 40k book covers. But one of those flail things smacking you on the head, and your looking at broken skulls, in theory it provides the mobility kill, while the tank rolls over bodies
Bring out a new version of the cluster bomb that would deploy caltrops, lots of caltrops.
Caltrops aren't a good choice against zombies, because they rely very heavily on pain and on forcing an enemy to move slowly due to foot damage. Zombies already move pretty slowly, and pain doesn't slow them down unless it comes with massive physical damage. So mines that blow feet off are much, much more effective against them than caltrops, and cluster bomblets that actually explode in the middle of a zombie force are better still.[/quote]

On reflection I'd have to agree with this.

Declan
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