Ships of the 13th Tribe (Ship/Design/Modelling Discussion)

[Eternal_Freedom]

This thread is for the ships of my 13th Tribe fanfic. I will be posting descriptions/stats of various ships (both my own creations and the adapted canon versions, like the Everest, Trafalgar and Pillar of Autumn. With that in mind, there may well be unmarked spoilers in this thread, so it is recommended that you read the fanfic itself first - if only because half of this won't make any senses whatever otherwise.

While I claim credit for some of the designs (the Warstars, HMS Dreadnought etc) others are based on/inspired by other people's work. Specifically, the Lionheart class Battlestars are the oBSG designs, the Galactica, Pegasus and Warspite are all only slightly modified visually from their canon counterparts, so those designs belong to their respective creators. The Eridanus belongs to CanisD, who drew the images I use as a mental basis for the ship - CanisD also has a number of other designs that I have based other ships on as well, like the Terran destroyers.

We (myself and DKeith) are currently in the process of getting some actual 3D artwork done of HMS Dreadnought to add some flavour to the story. Depending on how well it works, I may look at getting the Warstar Jupiter done as well.

[DKeith2011]

As a reminder, this is where the Dreadnaught project was left by the previous artist before he vanished for unknown reasons.

The new modeler will be recreating the ship to this point then making the necessary changes to finish it to E-Fs specifications.

And is there a way to embed images on this site?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I believe so, but I'm not exactly sure. Anyways, since you brought up the Brit battlewagon, that's what we'll kick off with:

HMS Dreadnought:

Characteristics:

-Length: 1600 metres
-Width: 400 metres
-Height: 100 metres (excluding dorsal superstructure)
-Class (RN designation): Dreadnought-class.
-Class (UNCF designation): BB-306.
-Designer: BAE Systems/Vosper-Thornycroft.
-Builder: UN/Terran Joint Station "Elysium Base."
-Entered service: 2008.
-Type/Role: Battleship, heavy ship-to-ship combat.
-Crew complement: 3,500.
-Hyperdrive cruising speed: 70 million c.
-Hyperdrive sprint speed: 100 million c (sustainable for six hours).
-Endurance: Supplies for six months of cruising, ammunition sufficient for approximately 24 hours of heavy combat without resupply.

Armament:

-4x heavy plasma beam cannons (spinal mount)
-10x twin plasma beam turrets (five per broadside)
-20x twin heavy coilgun turrets (ten per broadside)
-80x light coilguns (40 dorsal, 40 ventral, spread for maximum coverage)
-500x twin laser cannon point-defence guns (spread for maximum coverage)

Key systems:

-Power source: 2x Asgard-designed Neutrino-Ion Generators, 12x Mark Five naquada reactors as backup
-Shielding: Asgard-designed energy shields
-Terran superconductive hull armour
-Sublight engines: Three primary, four secondary
-Asgard data core/computer network
-Asgard and Terran-designed sensor suite
-Asgard beaming system

History:

After the sudden revelation (and ensuing chaos) of both the Stargate Program and the presence of multiple extraterrestrial civilisations after the Second Battle of Earth, the United Nations realised that they woudl now be able to embark on much larger starship building programs than they had previously. With no need to maintain secrecy, and the facilities promised by Elysium Base (then under construction), larger and more capable ships than the existing Daedalus class were possible.

Three nations (the US, the Russian Federation, and Great Britain) each embarked on their own designs for next-generation Tau'ri capital ships drawing on their own naval experiences. The British, having extensively studied the records of space combat from both the USAF ships and the Kobolian Combined Fleet, drew the conclusion that fighters and bombers were not as decisive a weapon in space as they were on the oceans and chose to look further back for inspiration. The idea of a battleship armed with a mixture of beam weapons and scaled-up coilgun mounts was quickly decided on as the most versatile option.

The cost would be considerable, so Great Britain limited itself to just the three Daedalus class vessels they had already committed to before the revelation of the Stargate, which became lower-priority than the ships for France, China, Russia and the US. They also reached out to the other Commonwealth Realms, principally Canada, Australia and New Zealand for mutual assistance in the construction of a space fleet.

With that agreement in place, designs were requested from various aerospace companies around the world (many of whom had prior knowledge of starship design from involvement in the then-secret Daedalus class) which were then vetted by the Joint R&D Office headed by General Carter and Professor Bazelgette for any serious flaws or issues.

The joint effort submitted by BAE Systems and Vosper-Thornycroft was selected and construction began at Elysium Base a few months prior to work beginning on the American and Russian ships, allowing the Royal Navy to be first to operate a true capital ship in space.

As with all RN starfleet vessels, the Dreadnought contains a uniquely British feature, a large framework from the rear of the dorsal superstructure that carries a 60 foot x 40 foot White Ensign.

Commissioned in 2008 by HM Queen Elizabeth the Second and under the command of Commodore Sir Jonathan Baird, the Dreadnought has already seen heavy action in a very short span of time: helping intercept the Forerunner Keyship approaching Terra the day after her launch, leading the Tau'ri contingent of the Alliance Fleet into the other universe and participating in the decisive Second Battle of Sigma Octanus IV and Operation: Sucker Punch. She and her escorts spent a week of near-constant combat helping stave off the Covenant general offensive and then was instrumental in holding Reach, her actions in providing close support to the embattled Marines around the generator complex and engaging the light carrier force in-atmosphere may well have been the key to the human forces surviving the battle.

With the design thoroughly vindicated in combat, Great Britain and her Commonwealth partners are actively considering building further ships of the class, with possible Canadian, Australian and New Zealand examples forming a "Commonwealth Division" of the RN starfleet. A number of other nations are also considering buying or licensing the design, including the German, Indian and Japanese governments, though these negotiations are still in the very early stages.

As the idea of an all-gun armament has proven so successful so far, there are some preliminary plans drawn up by the Admiralty and BAE/Vosper-Thornycroft to refit the three existing Daedalus class vessels in RN service into pure gun platforms; replacing the small hanger bays with additional plasma beam, coilgun and missile armament, though as with plans for further BB-306 battleships, these plans are still in their early stages.

A number of Facebook groups have already begun campaigning for not only more Dreadnoughts but that the next unit of the class should be called HMS Thunder Child, in homage to HG Well's seminal work, "The War of the Worlds." The Admiralty has confirmed that it would consider all serious suggestions, although a second (probably non-serious) Facebook campaign to name it Boaty McBoatface has been summarily dismissed by the Royal Navy and the government as ludicrous.

[fnord]

How are you planning to handle classes that have had multiple flights built?

For instance, I'm suspecting a Flight III Lionheart is a significantly tougher opponent (more shields, more dakka, nastier fighters with more shields + dakka themselves, etc) than a Flight I specimen. Likewise with the Challengers.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's really only an issue for the Lionhearts, the Warspites are effectively a new class. Even for the original Terran battlewagons, the Flight I-III upgrades don't really change the ship's vital characteristics (length, guns, fighter complement etc) they just enhance staying power. So I will probably simply mention the upgrades int he History section, or as an extra point after Key Systems.

[fnord]

Ok, so just treat it as a variant/subclass, much like the RN Daedalus ships (HMS Hell If I Know et al) being refitted into the Hell If I Know subclass?

On some further thought, wouldn't the Legend cruisers also fall under that rubric alongside the Lionhearts and Challengers?

[DKeith2011]

I was just notified by the modeler that work on Dreadnaught has officially begun.

Stay tuned for updates as they become available.

[Eternal_Freedom]

DKeith: That's awesome news, thanks for the update. When the time comes, can you PM me the details needed for payment, and how much my share will be so I can stash that away in a safe place?

Fnord: Nah, I don't see the need to make the Flight III's as a subclass/variant - the Flight I-Flight III progress was pretty quick, and all earlier examples are now Flight III standard, so the only distinction woudl be to say that Lionheart is a Flight I refitted to Flight III standard, while the Victorious is a Flight II refitted to Flight III standard etc. So not a variant or subclass but a mid-life refit. Since I'm writing these entries in-universe in the aftermath of Reach to avoid spoiling things for later material, I'm only ongoing with stuff that's appeared so far with some speculation.

It is entirely possible that more Battlestars will be built by Book III, whether that's more Phoenix/Lionheart class ships or a new design I have yet to decide.

Also, the Legend cruiser are all one type, they haven't had a major refit since the class was built - all the major upgrades tot he Battlestars and destroyers were implemented before the cruisers were built. There was talk of replacing the megalasers with Ancient beam weapons a la Nemesis/Jupiter, but that hasn't happened as yet.

[DKeith2011]

E-F: Will do.

Looking forward to the write-ups of the other ships in the series.

[DKeith2011]

Dreadnaught Update

Better Aft View

First pass recreation of the upper half of the ship

Still can't get image embedding to work.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Looking good, though the bow should be narrower, it';s only half the width of the stern. Also, topside/underside should look pretty much the same except for the topside superstructure.

[DKeith2011]

Modifications submitted as requested.

[Sky Captain]

Aren't the Dreadnought too thin for its length? 1600 m length vs 100 m height. I think Battlestars and other heavy ships are much taller, their length/height following ratio of about 8 : 1 or 10 :1 . UNSC ships are even more blocky having proportions a bit similar to a brick. Real world aircraft carriers and freighters have length/height ratio of around 10:1. Dreadnought is 16:1 it just somehow feel wrong. Resembling more a SUP board with pointy nose chopped off than a warship.

[Eternal_Freedom]

You may be right on that. Perhaps a length/height ratio of 8:1 would look better.

[DKeith2011]

Updates underway, if the height needs to be tweaked it will be in the next set of updates.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ace

[DKeith2011]

There is a request for any visual references for the broadside trench guns and some clarification of their placement.

Are they mounted to the back wall of the trench or on the top/bottom?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Um. I honestly haven't given much though to that. I would say the mounting attaches to both top and bottom of the trench, so the turret only rotates laterally and guns can elevate/depress by twenty degrees or so to improve coverage. They would visually resemble the main turrets on a Venator star destroyer. Not saying it needs to include the cylinder aspect, but that's the proportions I'm thinking of.

If possible, the middle turret in each group of 3 should have visually distinct guns from the outer pair, as the middle turret mounts plasma beams not coilguns.

As for placement, it's five groups of three turrets spread along the length, but the foremost group should be spread so that they can fire forwards with the main battery.

[DKeith2011]

Depending on the depth of the trench, would ball or half-wheel turrets mounted to the back wall work for the plasma beams?

I'm picturing a kind of stacked arrangement with the plasma beams mounted to the back wall on half-wheel turrets and the coilguns mounted one on the top of the trench and one on the bottom and looking a lot like battleship deck guns.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I've already stated in the description that the guns turrets are all in the trench, and stacking the turrets one above and one below the plasma turrets sounds impractical - the coilgun turrets will need some sort of magazine and feed system after all.

EDIT: However, a ball turret design for the plasma beams would look good. Especially if you had the guns stacked vertically rather than horizontally.

[DKeith2011]

Ok, I'll pass that on.

[DKeith2011]

Honestly, I'm not sure how visible any of the trench weapons will be at this scale.

With the model only being 6 inches long the only guns big enough to really be visible may be the bow guns.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well whatever the guy can come up with, I'm sure it'll work.

[DKeith2011]

Model update

View 01

View 02

View 03

View 04

View 05

[Eternal_Freedom]

That's looking a lot more solid. Depth looks right, as does the narrower bow.