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I don’t own either Lensman or Culture. Please don’t sue.

Any continuity glitches with the books are the result of the chroniclers wholly inadequate abilities.

Telus First Galaxy 1 year after the events of Children of the Lens

The conference room lay at the heart of The Hill HQ of the Galactic Patrol, the mighty force that ruled (with a more or less benevolent hand) two entire galaxies.

The room was brightly lit and dominated by a massive mahogany table, across this prestigious surface were strewn ash trays, charts maps and graphs.

The other dominant feature was a vast display tank; on it was represented a small section of the vast galactic disk, at the centre of which an ominous red icon hung surrounded by the icons of patrol task forces, fortresses, and even mobile planets.


“ It really is quite amazing.” The speaker, an illustrious scientist by the name of Peter Alanheight hailed from New England, took a long drag on his cigar as he continued.

“The mathematical improbability involved..... Of the accident in the first place and then breaking through into a universe where the correct conditions exist for life.... Its stunning.”

“QX. “ the Grey Clad Lensman two down from the scientist lent his elbows on the table. “The question is, what do we do about it?”

“ I think we have a wondrous opportunity. For the first time since civilisation began, we have the opportunity for peaceful diplomatic contact with other civilisations of similar scope.” The speaker was a Rigelian Lensman, a strange being shaped like a squat barrel with three legs and tentacles.

Near him another alien, this one a dragon-like Velantian thought to the table: “ I find my self forced to disagree. I think that contact, let alone peaceful contact, is highly inadvisable at this time.”

The being paused for a second before continuing its measured thoughts.
“The galaxy in which the doorway we have so in advertantly made is currently at war with its self. Surely none of the sides would be really in a position to fully deal with contact with a group from another universe.

“Second, can we really be sure that peaceful contact with these beings is desirable?”
There was a murmour of thoughts and talking, but the Dragon-like horror continued without its mental tone changing.

“ I find from my observations that most of the major powers of this new galaxy are highly objectionable. The Idirian appear to be a race whose ethics are not unlike much of Boskonia. Their objective is apparently to conquer every race of lesser might than themselves. The Homomda, do little to stop them and in fact supply them with military aid. And this “Culture” though outwardly moral has serious flaws. It has allowed its citizens to fall to a level of moral depravity that has been almost unknown in this universe. Moreover it has given its governance to thinking machines. Can we really trust such entities to have their biological citizens at heart? I believe that we must treat this galaxy as we did the Second Galaxy under Boskonian domination. In other words It must be bought to heel in a military manner and good governance imposed on it.”

There was a general acclimation of agreement at this, and many muttered favourable comments.
Eventually another Terran Lensman, this one in the uniform of a port admiral, addressed the gathering: “Very well, Morzek has made a most valid point. But if we are going to take them we are going to need a lot more stuff than we have at the moment, and to know a lot more about their technology.

“We might also wait for them to end their current war and disarm to a greater or lesser degree.” The ice coated form of the Palanian’s enviro suit still gave the impression of watchfulness. It communicated: “Anything that can reduce their strength can only help us.”

“QX. Are there any objections to this course of action?”

Its intresting, but I need some info on these Lensmen...

Lensmen are like the judges from Hudge Dreed((correct me if I`m wrong)) they know you are guilty and will telepathically scan you to prove it. The war with Bascome is total war they kill each other and its been going on for millions of years

first this http://steve.pugh.net/SFSFW/a/25/kimball.html is a link to an actual culture VS lensman page.

The tech analysis is not to good, but the reasons for going to war and the tactic's both sides use are both masterful.
Second
http://web.archive.org/web/200110260704 ... /LFQ0.html

and third http://www20.brinkster.com/pariahpress/lensman/main.htm

there's also a tech thread somewhere back on the other Sci fi board.

thirty years latter

culture milky way galaxy

Across the Galaxy peace had broke out.
The Irdian Culture war was over, the once mighty Idirian war fleets were blasted to debris and floating atoms and effecter reprogrammed allies of the Culture.

A few pockets of Idirans ground resistance still remained of course, but in space the war was over, and most of the major idirian planets where in culture hands. Really the war had been over for the last five years. But this was the important time, the end of the war was OFFICIAL.

The galaxy at large and the Culture in particular were doing what they had wanted to do for all 48 years of war: partying. The war was won, disarmament was already well in hand and the future looked bright.

For Stali-Penosa Terrilia ‘Darman Linra peace had not broke out. She was a special circumstances agent, and people were trying to kill her. This was nothing new. What was
new was that she didn’t know why.

She splashed down a rain soaked alley, the plasma gun she always carried as a memory form in one hand. Her boosted sense detected the heat of three pursuers. They where only a block behind.
Terrilia wished several things as she ran down the rain soaked alley. She wished she knew who her attackers worked for. She wished she knew where they got their strange technology from.

But most of all she wished she knew where the hell her Knife missile was.......

It had all started some 2 months ago when she’d arrived in this system to take over Special Circumstances watch station.

The system was named DREG and was always capitalised. which Terrilia though about summed it up. The gas giant moon which held most of its life was called FODE again all in capitals. The moon was one of the most depressing places Terrilia had been in her long SC career. It rained almost constantly, and was always lit by the perpetual half light of the gas giant.

Terrilia had been asked to come here by SC as something of a break from the massive workload and frequent life threatening danger that the SC agent had lived with through the Idirian war. After a few days of being here Terrilia wondered if some one was playing a practical joke on her: the moon with its constant rain and half light was the most depressing place imaginable. Still she had no intention of leaving and dropping this post in someone else's lap.

To escape the depressing weather and lack of night life, the culture agent threw her self into what work she had. Nothing important might happen here but if anything did she was damn sure she was going to catch it.

So the on going reports of USO around the edge of the system had peaked her attention. They didn’t indicate the usual pattern of pirate or smuggler activity. No ships vanished. No ghosts where sighted near the planets. However at the edge of the system there were lots of rumours of ghost ship activity. But they didn’t follow the normal patterns. What these activities most resembled was some kind of covert military operation. But the number of reports suggested a substantial fleet. And what the hell would a major power be doing all the way out here in the boon docks of the galaxy, wandering around a backwater system with crappy weather and no prospects?

But when it had really started was when she’d gone to see the asteroid miner....

three hours before

Terrilia walked through broken slums and the partly submerged buildings of spacer town with a spring in her step, Finally after a month of investigation she had found an eye or at least sensor witness. The ghost ships stories may sound like another local legend that popped up on occasions, but the sheer number of these reports coupled with the data from in system sensors had made her look more closely.

She had looked still more closely when the evidence started to disappear.
Finally though she appeared to be one step ahead of whoever was hiding the information and have a good solid lead.

However that didn’t mean she wasn’t taking precautions. She had informed base of her intentions and that if she didn’t report in a large group needed to be sent. She was also armed quite heavily and wearing low profile armour under her black spacer garb.

Finally her knife missile was in a sheath on one hip. Carrying a knife was not illegal on FODE, in fact in spacer town it was almost mandatory.

The bar where she was meeting her contact was a dive. Lit by dirty flicker neon signs, the inside stank of cheep drugs, alcohol and urine. Various people who looked like they where on their day off from being dead sat talking quietly at tables drinking things you didn’t want to think about.

Her contact, a bearded man with shaky hands sat at a table in the corner by himself. As she moved over her knife missile pinged her mind for attention hey Terri check out those two guys over there. The two men her AI companion was referring too were sitting at a table drinking. They both looked like normal bar denizens - except they wore massive bulky great coats.... and for the energy signatures the knife missiles sensors and her own implants showed. Shit. they’re wearing full powered combat armour...

Terrilia began to head for the door trying to be unobtrusive about it, as she moved she felt something effecter? touch her mind. Her neural lass immediately began to put out jamming and threw a field round her mind. It wouldn’t last against a ship grade effecter but against a hand held model it gave decent protection.

The two men at the table rose and came after her, ahead of her the door opened, another figure was framed in it.
And I had such high hopes for this day.

The knife missiles exploded off her side and slashed past the man in the door way.The man feel, blood gushing from his torn armour. Terrilia dived past himand ran of into the semi gloom of the spacers quater.

effector.

keep it going.

FBHthelizardmage wrote:first this http://steve.pugh.net/SFSFW/a/25/kimball.html is a link to an actual culture VS lensman page.

His tactics are incorrect. During the Idrian War, what happened was the Culture retreated, using a "Scorched Earth" policy, destroying any orbitals that would be left behind. They mostly had GCUs and GSVs doing delaying tactics, while the rest of the Cutlure actually built a fleet for an actual war. Quite simplely, they let the Idrians advance, before completely shreding them with fresh, newly built forces.

Nitpick: Its Minds, not Brains. Suit minds are there to act as really good translators, not as company.

The tech analysis is not to good, but the reasons for going to war and the tactic's both sides use are both masterful.
Second
http://web.archive.org/web/200110260704 ... /LFQ0.html

and third http://www20.brinkster.com/pariahpress/lensman/main.htm

there's also a tech thread somewhere back on the other Sci fi board.

Yep, went and found the thing:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7866&

Edit:

As to the fic, I'm not quite sure about the setting, a Culture world wouldn't actually be like that, unless this was just some random world that the Culture has just met.

I thought it was meant to be a world SC had been snooping around.

NecronLord wrote:I thought it was meant to be a world SC had been snooping around.

Well, that too. It needs to convey that more, though.

It's interesting. Still, what I always liked was the lack of moralizing on part of the Culture. For example, they realized the simple fact that the war against the Idirans had nothing to do with morality. It was simply a disagreement as to the best state of governance. The Culture had their minds and their somewhat decadent freedom to do exactly anything. The Idirans had their faith and their refusal to let Minds govern. The Homomdans worried about what would happen if the Culture controlled just about everything out there.

Personally, I think applying good guy bad guy mentality there is a waste of elements.

Tellurian, not Terran.

A Velantian concerned about "moral depravity?" Any Lensman has more important things to think about than "moral depravity." Are people enslaved or tortured by the Culture? Are machines doing their thinking for them, stunting their cognitive growth? Is freedom restricted?

It would have to be "gray-clad Lensman" or "Gray Lensman," but not "Gray Clad Lensman."

Eleas wrote:It's interesting. Still, what I always liked was the lack of moralizing on part of the Culture. For example, they realized the simple fact that the war against the Idirans had nothing to do with morality. It was simply a disagreement as to the best state of governance. The Culture had their minds and their somewhat decadent freedom to do exactly anything. The Idirans had their faith and their refusal to let Minds govern. The Homomdans worried about what would happen if the Culture controlled just about everything out there.

Personally, I think applying good guy bad guy mentality there is a waste of elements.

Well First I think the Idirans culture war had EVERYTHING to do with morality. The Idirans were wandering around enslaving civilizations.

If the Culture was to maintain the moral bases behind its utopian life style ( that they helped other species covertly and overtly.) then the Idirains had to be stopped. This is at least the expliantion given in consider philbus.

Currald wrote:
A Velantian concerned about "moral depravity?" Any Lensman has more important things to think about than "moral depravity." Are people enslaved or tortured by the Culture? Are machines doing their thinking for them, stunting their cognitive growth? Is freedom restricted?
"

I honestly think that civilation would be horrifed by the Culture, since they have pretty much taken the oposite road goverment wise.

For example the culture solved the drug problem by giving all its citizens glands that produce pretty much any drug you could want.

This added to civiliation rather militant attitude to things diffrent from it (look at Kinnsons reaction to the lyranians) Is going to make conflict if not invetable then at least very likely.

To answer your questions in turn: Not unless they want to, yes, quite probbabbly and it isn't at all.

FBHthelizardmage wrote:For example the culture solved the drug problem by giving all its citizens glands that produce pretty much any drug you could want.

"Klono's barium testicles! Zwilnick glands?!?"

Currald wrote:

FBHthelizardmage wrote:For example the culture solved the drug problem by giving all its citizens glands that produce pretty much any drug you could want.

"Klono's barium testicles! Zwilnick glands?!?"

Indeed.

Now

Terrilia’s foot steps splashed rain from the soaked street as she ran. She had been split from Quedran, her knife missile somewhen in the confused chase, Damn blood thirsty cutter’s probably got its self killed charging a gun platform, she thought. The people chasing her were well equipped if nothing else. They included not only dozens of powered armoured men (all men - there didn’t seem to be one woman among them) but also a pair of tracked tank like vehicles.

She ran onto a main thoroughfare, then skidded to a stop as she saw two suited forms on the other side of the street. A beam of white fire lashed out from one man’s weapon just missing her ducking form. The beam connected with the side of the building near her, blowing the wall to shrapnel.

Terrilia returned fire with her plasma pistol; the blast of plasma hit one of the suited forms in the shoulder, blast splatter sprayed across him; fields around his suit reflected much of the energy away but there was still enough to burn through his armour and throw him bodily across the street. The other mans weapon was tracking her she....

Terrilia’s world exploded. She had a brief sensation of flight then there was a numbing crunch as she hit the pavement. Had she not been wearing body armour the blast and fragments would have killed her. It helped she was an SC agent as well.

The man walked toward Terrilia his gun pointed. Her own gun had got lost somewhere though she didn’t remember letting go.

Terrilia held her hand away from her body and tried to look non threatening. she was getting that effecter sensation again. Terrilia closed her eyes and concentrated on having as confused a mind as possible.

Lieutenant Lensman Mark Greyam looked down at the girl in front of him. What a catch! He would get a promotion for this for sure. She was pretty too. Pity she was an enemy agent.

He saw something in his peripheral vision. As he mind was telling his eyes to turn the knife missiles fields cut him in two.

What took you so long? Terrilia pulled her self off the street and began to look for her plasma gun.
I was.... delayed. The knife missile sounded sheepish.

“Come on then, “ she said out loud. “Let’s go”

Detroit, Tellus, Lensman universe

William Brass, lensman Unatached, looked down at the scene of mass industry stretched below him. He stood on the top floor of the industrial park’s massive office complex, which had a great view of the site.

It was a scene out of some 20th century industrialist’s dream. Below over 2 million workers laboured on hundreds of Massive Hulls of new Maulers and Super Dreadnoughts. With drill and wrench and force beam they laboured. Great columns of ground vehicles and cargo space ships continually dropped off new tools and components for the massive fleet taking shape bellow.

The new fleet was made up of three types of ships. Named by the planners who had created the doctrine for this invasion: Hammers, Anvils and Wolves. They corresponded with three ship types in the ‘normal’ battle line of the Lensman. The Hammers Maulers, the Anivlis Super Maulers and the Wolves Dreadnoughts.

The Hammers, the ships that were being built in the yard below where big, fully twice the size of any mauler built before. Fully half that was engine. These craft would be fast. Slower than a modern super dreadnought, but much faster than anything in the enemy fleets at least as far as travel was concerned.

Most of rest of the ship was weapons and screen generators. And what weapons and screens! Vast missile bays held thousands of super atomic torpedoes. Massive gatling primaries which could fire thousands of blast a second. Macro beams of power which surpassed the Sunbeams of 30 years back.

The screens were equally prestigious: a full 18 banks of tightly held screens, plus the wall shields. Individually the screens were also as much above there counterparts of the Boskonain war as the weapons. Not only were they far stronger and more efficient but they would, at least to some extent, stop the displacer delivered weapons that Culture ships used from appearing inside the ship.
The ships also included internal screens to mitigate against the damage of any munition that slipped through.

Finally the ships were the first to include the new generation of Computer brains. The brains used ultra waves, and various electronics advances from the second universe to achieve reaction speeds fast enough to compete with if not match those of the enemy vessels.

The other two classes of vessel where similarly refined. The Anvils, comparable in size if not in concept to Super Maulers. These ships included massive amounts of weapons and screens, but no engines. They were to be the siege units. Securing conquered systems, and investing those in the process of being taken.

Finally there were the Wolves, these where Superdreadnaught type ships and were designed to find and destroy the far flung Culture production facilities.

All the three main battle units would be entirely automated both to minimise loses in personnel and to maximise their reaction time.

However there would also be HQ fleets manned by the cream of the Galactic Patrol to oversee the wider picture.

When first plans had been laid to bring the second universe (or at least its galaxy one ) into the light of civilisation, it had been initially proposed to simply drop hundreds or thousands of weapons of mass destruction on the centres of Culture population, production and command. The problem, as was quickly pointed out by the cooler heads in high command, was that the Culture didn’t have centres of population production and command. It’s entire civilisation was spread out and mobile and would be next to impossible to target. Although deploying nega sphere, planets and the like against some targets would be necessary, It would also be necessary to send in fleets to both secure the area and destroy the Culture forces.

William looked down on the massive scene of industry below him. These were the greatest war machines ever produced by Civilisation. And they were being produced in the greatest numbers. He hoped it would be enough.

Very nice. I like the Gatling primaries.

Just a small nit: "Gray" not "Grey" (this is important!). They might also say, "Lensman Joe Smith, Unattached."

Supermaulers might be too big to build on a planet, but perhaps with all of the gravity-manipulation tech the GP has it would be feasible.

Currald wrote:Very nice. I like the Gatling primaries.

Just a small nit: "Gray" not "Grey" (this is important!). They might also say, "Lensman Joe Smith, Unattached."

Supermaulers might be too big to build on a planet, but perhaps with all of the gravity-manipulation tech the GP has it would be feasible.

hum.

I'll go back through and edit that.

I think I'm also going to increase the gattlings rate of fire, so that they can actually fire more than once in a culture speed engagment...

I think I specfied only Maulers and SDs being built at the detroit facilty.... (didn't I?)

you realise that Culture speed engagements are in the microsecond range

Idiran war era is centi-second at best. The microseconds were in Excession, against an outdated fleet of that era(Idiran war), and to those ships the Killing time seemed to be moving impossibly fast.

This is set five hundred years before that. Centiseconds for an engagement, maybe even deciseconds.

Well, a second-generation primary beam duration for each shot was stated to be 0.60 seconds. The Patrol was always working on increasing beam power and duration. You best bet against the Culture might be multiple primaries which fire simultaneously.

Are there any stats on what sorts of yield-levels are necessary to take out a Culture ship?

Nope, but as Anti Matter can do it, we can assume low gigaton at best. It's actually hitting them that's difficult.

Ok. While not exactly out of idea, I am having slight trouble coming up with the next bit of this story.

So I offer a question: what do you think should happen next?

note however I may have a flash of inspiration and do something totally diffrent.

NecronLord wrote:Nope, but as Anti Matter can do it, we can assume low gigaton at best. It's actually hitting them that's difficult.

Well, then they certainly have the raw power to do it. Why are they so hard to hit? Couldn't you just nab 'em with a tractor beam, and destroy them at your leisure? Would they have weapons (gridfire aside) that could do anything to a GP ship? We figured the lower-limit of GP primaries to be 2.745e13 tons. I haven't made any serious shield calcs yet, but they should be within a couple of OOM lower, I guess.

Re: the fanfic in progress: What are the characters' motivations? That should drive the story.

They tend to do things like hide in hyperspace and move fast (centisecond battles) If the GP has aquired the tech to fight at near culture speeds, then a single shot will kill them.

Hyperspace is the problem.