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The basic question is this: if we're going to allow pornographic fanfic, should certain things, such as rape or incest, be permitted?

In my opinion, I think rape and/or incest is kind of going a little too far. However, not everyone shares my views, so let's do this democratically.

I think artistic expression within reasonable bounds shouldn't be limited. As long as neither the rape nor incest scenes in the future which may be posted depict minors (Or, considering the variety of ages of consent we may have from varying states and countries, even merely pre-pubescent children as a more biologically clear line), I don't think it should be restricted.

Back in the 16th century European nobility could marry their 14 year old cousins, and presumably at least some of those marriages ended up happy, even if they're sick by our standards. So considering that we're writing sci-fi here, I don't think we should limit ourselves, except in matters which are clearly taboo.

Likewise, rape is barbarous, but also a reality, and unless the crime being depicted is of an exceptionally atrocious sort - Again, against juveniles - I don't seem to think we have a right to limit artistic expression in that regard.

Honestly, I wouldn't even limit it then on a national level, but then I don't like government interference into morality. This is a board where some good taste can prevail. Of course, ultimately, that good taste will be Mike's, so it is his choice, but this is my opinion on the matter, and these two rather touchy subjects.

That would depend on the intent of the story. If it is porn first and story second, then rape/incest/both would have a place there. Anything that gets the reader's juices flowing, after all.

If it is story first, with porn on the side, then only if it was absolutely necessary to the story. IE no gratuitous rapes just because X character can.

While artistic expression is a *plausible* reason to allow it, I feel for our modest board that there is too much potential for obscenity. I mean how many of us actually know what it would be like for the victim? I feel very strongly that it should not be allowed. Having said that I do not wish to press my views on others, and of course if it does appear, I will just choose not to read it, and protest to the appropriate people to have it cencered if I find it a little too offensive.

Just to re-iterate, out of respect for two people in my life who were victims of this act, I don't feel it's appropriate for any and everybody to just write about it under the guise of 'entertainment'.

Thanks.

I think that the solution is to simply put a warning notice of potentially offensive content at the beginning of any fanfic (and possibly in the subject line as well, eg- porn, rape). And not to overdo it; the occasional porno fanfic would be cool, but we don't want this forum to become alt.sex.stories.

As for rape, I have observed that some form of coerced sex is very common in fanfics, but it bears little resemblance to real-life rape. Many women have pseudo-rape fantasies in which they are manhandled and forcibly taken, but in those fantasies, it's usually quasi-consensual; the woman finds the man desirable and doesn't put up a fight, but enjoys being dominated. Stories which depict realistic rape would probably be much more disturbing. However, we must keep in mind that most of the fanfics in this forum depict death, destruction, and murder, often on a grand scale, and no one complains. Is murder not offensive?

There is NOTHING sexy about rape and that would be offensive as hell. The dominating is prefectly fine that's sexy and fun but any fanfic that depicts a full on rape is DISGUSTING.

Like I said, I don't feel it's appropriate, however if someone chooses to write it, I will choose not to read it... However should we concern ourselves with the possibility of miss-use?

My opinion on Rape Scenes: Depends on how its pulled off. I think that it should be kept under artistic license.

As to the other two questions (Minors and incest) I would think both of those would be an obvious "No."

Darth Wong wrote:I think that the solution is to simply put a warning notice of potentially offensive content at the beginning of any fanfic (and possibly in the subject line as well, eg- porn, rape). And not to overdo it; the occasional porno fanfic would be cool, but we don't want this forum to become alt.sex.stories.

As for rape, I have observed that some form of coerced sex is very common in fanfics, but it bears little resemblance to real-life rape. Many women have pseudo-rape fantasies in which they are manhandled and forcibly taken, but in those fantasies, it's usually quasi-consensual; the woman finds the man desirable and doesn't put up a fight, but enjoys being dominated. Stories which depict realistic rape would probably be much more disturbing. However, we must keep in mind that most of the fanfics in this forum depict death, destruction, and murder, often on a grand scale, and no one complains. Is murder not offensive?

I know that in Germany, and many other European countries, violence is shunned, especially in magazines etc... whereas nudity and sex isn't, such that teen mags contain pics of naked guys and girls, a magazine such as Teen People, to German styling would have nudity in it.

If you have a story with sex fine. If your story is just about sex, take it somewhere else.

Go right ahead with as much sex as the author wants, what's a pornfic without massive amounts of kinky gratioutous sex? I for one wouldn't mind seeing Luke/Leia BDSM scenes, hell, I look forward to someone writing that up soon! Go ahead, sully the fanfic forum so it matches the rest of the board.

It should be "allowed" but I don't think authors should put it in.

aerius wrote:Go right ahead with as much sex as the author wants, what's a pornfic without massive amounts of kinky gratioutous sex? I for one wouldn't mind seeing Luke/Leia BDSM scenes, hell, I look forward to someone writing that up soon! Go ahead, sully the fanfic forum so it matches the rest of the board.

LOL

Singuler Quartet wrote:My opinion on Rape Scenes: Depends on how its pulled off. I think that it should be kept under artistic license.

That's the key. We HAVE to allow it, unless it has little artistic or literary value. In other words, if the piece sucks, then it does not have any protection. If, however, the piece is literarily very good but extremely graphic, I think that we MUST allow it under the Supreme Court's ruling in Miller v. California. However, this is a Canadian website. I am not familiar with the legislation on this matter in Canada, but I would be surprised if it did not have a similar clause.

Since porn fanfics usually have NO artistic or literary value, I would, however, be surprised if we felt something was inappropriate but was protected by the US Constitution.

Master of Ossus wrote:That's the key. We HAVE to allow it, unless it has little artistic or literary value. In other words, if the piece sucks, then it does not have any protection. If, however, the piece is literarily very good but extremely graphic, I think that we MUST allow it under the Supreme Court's ruling in Miller v. California. However, this is a Canadian website. I am not familiar with the legislation on this matter in Canada, but I would be surprised if it did not have a similar clause.

Actually, while I am a Canadian, the website is actually being hosted on an American webhost, so it may be subject to American law, not Canadian law (I'm not sure how the laws treat the situation where material is hosted in country A but maintained by somebody living in country B).

Since porn fanfics usually have NO artistic or literary value, I would, however, be surprised if we felt something was inappropriate but was protected by the US Constitution.

Artistic or literary value is in the eye of the beholder, is it not? And I believe that pure speech (ie- words, as opposed to visual forms of "expression") generally gets much more lenient treatment than movies etc.

Anyway, I'll simply say this: if someone posts a truly offensive fanfic, I'm sure somebody else will start a poll about the possibility of moving it to the Hall of Shame, and that will pretty much decide that.

Thinks about digging up Jason M.

Let's see, Abused Child (Sexualy and Physically), grows up to be a deeply disturbed adult, and derives sadistic pleasure from torchering people who abuse Women and Children. The story deals with attempted Scuicide, torchering a rapist to the point were he surffers a total mental break. The long term after effects of Abuse, Brother/Sister relationship, Stalking, and a main character that is aware that he is a Monster.

What's the vote on that one?

Raycav just crossed that line. His fic has been moved to the Hall of Shame.

HEY! I can see who this thread is aimed at

BTW the only porn you'll ever get from me is whatever the hell's in WTLC...which is all implied, BTW. Too bad, your fault

Stravo wrote:There is NOTHING sexy about rape and that would be offensive as hell. The dominating is prefectly fine that's sexy and fun but any fanfic that depicts a full on rape is DISGUSTING.

Why would it be disgusting? It could be an important part of the development of a character. Just because the act involves sex doesn't mean the author's intention is to have everyone masturbate while reading it.

Rape. incest, etc-- if it is contextual to the story and is necessary for the plot or character, then it can be handled in as graceful yet straightforward a manner that such subjects can be dealt with.

Technically, Liea giving Luke the tongue was an incestuous act-- albeit unknowingly. But it was part of character, in character. In Gladiator we saw Emporer Commodus basically rape his sister, that was part of the story. A character who was abused as a child may well be able to explain some of his/her oddities or proclivities explained thusly. In my graphic-novel version of Empires{/i], I had a rape scene that later was par for the course in Yugoslavia: soldiers raping females of the enemy as a political statement.

But just filling pages of disgusting acts for the purpose of titillating or warping a reader's sensibilities is just an act of desperate and immature attention-begging... IMHO.

Never read one of RayCay were they any good or did he just go stupid in them?

Stupid isn't the right word......

ArmorPierce wrote:Never read one of RayCay were they any good or did he just go stupid in them?

Erm... They were ABOMINABLE. It was just disturbing, at best. I am quite honestly horrified that that's actually the way he sees healthy relationships going.

ArmorPierce wrote:Never read one of RayCay were they any good or did he just go stupid in them?

Let's just say that he used the words 'incision', 'anus', and 'pleasure' in the same sentence and leave it there.