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In a conversation between RedImperator and myself, we decided that while ROTJ was clearly flawed: return to Tattooine, no connection between first and second acts, Ewoks, repeat Death Star plot device, Leia as Luke's sister, &c.

We looked at some of the ideas. Its pretty apparent that originally the Death Star was suited only for the end of the trilogy and built over the Wookiee world. But with Chewbacca bringing us modernized Wookiees and the Death Star used up in ANH, that's not possible. An attack on the the capital - considered in some treatments - is equally without credibility, because disregarding the EU, the scale of the Rebellion presented in ANH and TESB still disallows for any attack on the capital that probably wouldn't be met with incredible force. Also, the Death Stars in some treatments still leave us with repetition.

The challenge is to rewrite ROTJ. Either novel or screenplay format is acceptable. You must redeem Lord Vader and nearly tempt Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side. Palpatine must be defeated, but not necessarily killed (this was not the original intent in the OT and who knows, if its good maybe we'll get several fan authors on sequels ). The Empire must be dealt a considerable defeat without (a) Death Star(s), but do not handwave an instant galaxy-wide defeat. Leia cannot be Luke's sister, and neither Luke nor Leia can die. You must wrap up the Han/Jabba plotline in a well-connected to the second-act manner, and without going back to Tattooine. No Ewoks. No Death Star. No major assault on a Core World out of context of the previous films' depiction of the Rebellion's scale. There must be a space battle.

You are only to consider the films (theatrical release, not special edition) and secondary sources of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back to be canon.

Any takers?

EDIT: Added something about Palpatine's status requirements and prizes.

Prize? Shit. Hmm. Give me a bit to think about that and the due date.

I'll try it. When is it due, what's the prize, etc?

EDIT: And since the PT is not being considered canon, we are free to use any back story we desire for Vader/the Jedi/Yoda whatever, right?

HemlockGrey wrote:I'll try it. When is it due, what's the prize, etc?

Working on that.

HemlockGrey wrote:EDIT: And since the PT is not being considered canon, we are free to use any back story we desire for Vader/the Jedi/Yoda whatever, right?

Correct.

I'm just sort of wondering what issue you had with the return to Tatooine. That was always intended to be Jabba's homeworld after all...

Admiral_K wrote:I'm just sort of wondering what issue you had with the return to Tatooine. That was always intended to be Jabba's homeworld after all...

It's symptomatic of "the same people doing the same things in the same places" metabrainbug which infests the EU and the PT. Tattooine was originally intended to be the bunghole of the galaxy, a place notable only for being Luke Skywalker's homeworld. Lucas had an entire galaxy to play with in ROTJ and he sent us back to that sandbox instead.

Admiral_K wrote:I'm just sort of wondering what issue you had with the return to Tatooine. That was always intended to be Jabba's homeworld after all...

Who cares? Why should a major crime boss be on a shitty world like Tattooine. The theatrical release of ANH works out great, with just Han being tracked down by some lackey on his middle-of-no-where port-stop (obviously to avoid this kind of thing).

Tattooine is supposed to be nowhere. If it really is, in a whole galaxy, we would never, ever go back.

So we can only consider the original trilogy as they were released in thearters? Well... sick thoughts are forming in my mind. If they properly coagulate and flow, I might post something.

Maybe.

Wow, that's a tall order. Especially without PT or special editions being in account. I guess you don't even want the novel's as sources either, the movie novelizations that is.

Any word cap? Time tables? What?

Knife wrote:Wow, that's a tall order. Especially without PT or special editions being in account. I guess you don't even want the novel's as sources either, the movie novelizations that is.

Any word cap? Time tables? What?

IP is making the rules, so I'll let him address that. As for sources, look at it this way: pretend it's 1981 and you're George Lucas. You have the theatrical release of the films, the novels, and the radio plays. The third film obviously has to maintain continunity with the previous two, so if there's a contradiction between the novels and the films, you have to go with the films, but you can use the novels as sources.

RedImperator wrote:

Knife wrote:Wow, that's a tall order. Especially without PT or special editions being in account. I guess you don't even want the novel's as sources either, the movie novelizations that is.

Any word cap? Time tables? What?

IP is making the rules, so I'll let

him address that. As for sources, look at it this way: pretend it's 1981 and you're George Lucas. You have the theatrical release of the films, the novels, and the radio plays. The third film obviously has to maintain continunity with the previous two, so if there's a contradiction between the novels and the films, you have to go with the films, but you can use the novels as sources.

The only reason I brought up the novels is the Jabba scene is in the novel in ANH. Alot of interesting things are in there that never made it to the movie. But I get the point.

Just take a look at some of Lucas' old plans for Luke spending an entire movie finding his non-leia sister.

Knife wrote:

RedImperator wrote:

Knife wrote:Wow, that's a tall order. Especially without PT or special editions being in account. I guess you don't even want the novel's as sources either, the movie novelizations that is.

Any word cap? Time tables? What?

IP is making the rules, so I'll let

him address that. As for sources, look at it this way: pretend it's 1981 and you're George Lucas. You have the theatrical release of the films, the novels, and the radio plays. The third film obviously has to maintain continunity with the previous two, so if there's a contradiction between the novels and the films, you have to go with the films, but you can use the novels as sources.

The only reason I brought up the novels is the Jabba scene is in the novel in ANH. Alot of interesting things are in there that never made it to the movie. But I get the point.

Sure, go with that. But don't go back to Tattooine. RedImp and I are considering the prize and restrictions. Be back soon on that.

Ok, the due date is August 15th, so get a crackin'. No size limit, but don't speedwrite a Starcrossed, now.

Any suggestions for prizes?

RedImperator wrote:

Admiral_K wrote:I'm just sort of wondering what issue you had with the return to Tatooine. That was always intended to be Jabba's homeworld after all...

It's symptomatic of "the same people doing the same things in the same places" metabrainbug which infests the EU and the PT. Tattooine was originally intended to be the bunghole of the galaxy, a place notable only for being Luke Skywalker's homeworld. Lucas had an entire galaxy to play with in ROTJ and he sent us back to that sandbox instead.

Yes, because part of the Hero's journey is to return home. I take it you guys aren't looking at this from a mythical POV.

Ender wrote:Yes, because part of the Hero's journey is to return home. I take it you guys aren't looking at this from a mythical POV.

Its not necessary (was LOTR killed by not having the hero return home before the end of his journey?) and in the case of SW, is actively stupid and makes little sense.

Its called a middle-of-nowhere dustball; it should stay that way.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Ok, the due date is August 15th, so get a crackin'. No size limit, but don't speedwrite a Starcrossed, now.

Any suggestions for prizes?

Some kind of thing one can put in ones signature or even a custom name?

I'm in by the way.

Hm. I'd be up for the custom title. I'm sure Mike would arrange to have "Winner of ROTJ Rewrite Challenge" for a custom title. We could design a special sig banner. Whichever you guys would prefer.

By the way, here's a source for inspiration: old scripts for SW.

I'll give it a shot. I tried working on a prequel rewrite once but I'm still stuck on those details.

I've got a few ideas, creative or not.

You mentioned "No Death Stars" about three times in the opening post, IP. You must really have hated that DS2.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The challenge is to rewrite ROTJ. Either novel or screenplay format is acceptable. You must redeem Lord Vader and nearly tempt Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side. Palpatine must be defeated, but not necessarily killed (this was not the original intent in the OT and who knows, if its good maybe we'll get several fan authors on sequels ). The Empire must be dealt a considerable defeat without (a) Death Star(s), but do not handwave an instant galaxy-wide defeat. Leia cannot be Luke's sister, and neither Luke nor Leia can die. You must wrap up the Han/Jabba plotline in a well-connected to the second-act manner, and without going back to Tattooine. No Ewoks. No Death Star. No major assault on a Core World out of context of the previous films' depiction of the Rebellion's scale. There must be a space battle.

You are only to consider the films (theatrical release, not special edition) and secondary sources of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back to be canon.

Very interesting, and challenging. About Tatooine: Would you give us a get out of jail free card with respect to this scene from ESB:

ESB wrote: Lando: When we find Jabba the Hut and that bounty hunter, we'll contact you.

Luke: I'll meet you at the rendezvous point on Tatooine

Do we have to account for that at all or can we just ignore it for all intents and purposes? If we decide on a screenplay, how fleshed out do you want it? Do we need shots or can we get away with dialogue and scene description only?

You don't need to do shots. Write off the roundezvous point as just that; remember, Lando was going to search for Han. The roundezvous point is when he meet Leia on Tattooine in Shadows of the Empire, and they go after Han on Gall. Its not in Return of the Jedi.

Just write it off with a line like, "I know we went over this on Tattooine, but are you sure about this intelligence, Lando?" or something like that.

I just plan to by pass it all together and start after the rescue.

Setesh wrote:I just plan to by pass it all together and start after the rescue.

Not only do I imagine that would be weak, but it violates the initial conditions.

You must wrap up the Han/Jabba plotline in a well-connected to the second-act manner, and without going back to Tattooine.

How complete does the rewrite have to be? Do all scenes have to be entirely new, or can events/ideas from the canon RotJ be included?

Lord Zentei wrote:How complete does the rewrite have to be? Do all scenes have to be entirely new, or can events/ideas from the canon RotJ be included?

You can have derivative dialog and concepts; I don't care. I'd recommend pulling ideas like Lando or Han dying and hard-won triumph tinged with sadness from previous script drafts.

But other than that, the only limits are the ones I placed upon you before.