A little something I threw together - Imperial Frigate WIP

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-03-29 05:01pm

All guns can elevate 90 degrees.

Thats what was bugging me. Not the arc but the orientation of the lighter turrets. They would look better mounted for a broadside rather than orientated towards the bow.

Kind of makes sense (at least to me

) because of the general shape of the ship. Since its long and flat (the perverbial brick on its side) and the forward arc is covered by the turbo lasers on the wings, all those turrets facing towards the bow/stern make it look uneven and alot of deadspace for the port/starboard arcs.

Not that its necessarily true, just that it appears like that and IMO makes it look unbalenced.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-29 05:24pm

Well, you have to remember that the light guns really are light, the barrels are 2m long or so. This places them somewhere around X-wing class lasers, larger than the Falcon's and rather smaller than the small TLs on the DS1. They're strictly anti-fighter.

The real heavy-hitters are the 2x2 turbolasers on the wings, and those are oriented so that they can hit anything ±22 degrees off of center forewards, and can hit anything above or below the ship. So presumably engagements would be made head-on, where there is full heavy gun coverage (no real need to even waste time firing with the light cannons) but a small target profile.

If faced with a more maneuverable target, it's probably lightly armed. So presenting a large profile is not an issue, so one would engage facing either the top or the bottom towards the enemy. That way you have more like ±50 degrees from center from the main guns, enlarging the zone with which a ship can be hit with all four heavy guns.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-29 06:22pm

A few more changes. Defense guns added to the hangar area, other guns redistributed. Reactor box now stretches in some areas to the wings.

Raytrace the third

Comparison shot - ISD by Alex Lukachuk

*EDIT* Oh yeah, I'm open to naming suggestions.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2004-03-29 06:56pm

Very nice indeed-- I like that one of it with the ISD. Really puts its size into perspective, too.

I also like the defense guns, I was thinking a bit bigger since they're a bit closer to the engines (or were in the idea I suggested-- more power available, why not make them stronger?) but as they are, they're good. Would act very well as hangar defense, and can-- I'm not sure but I presume-- be oriented forwards... that would make a frontal attack much more effective.

Naming suggestions? Hmm... can't quite think of anything. Generally, though, Imperial names are somewhat aggressive-sounding (Avenger, Tyrant, Executioner, etc...)-- might want something along those lines. Hmm... might call it (as a class) after someone fairly prominent, ie Isard- or Zsinj-class (although I admit that a Zsinj-class would probably be much larger... he wasn't exactly a subtle guy!) And as it's the first ship of its kind, of course it's the name-ship of its class... just a thought, but it does kind of make sense (being, after all, the precedent here on Earth for the most part).

Like I said, looks really good now... and again, I just love that one of it with the ISD! Have you thought about combining several different ships and making a big picture of a fleet in battle or some such? Considering your skill, that'd probably not be too hard... and it would definitely be too kewl!

*pictures scenes from Starcrossed done by Howedar... w00t!*

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2004-03-29 08:17pm

I think it lok better this way. And some of the bulky look is gone also.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-29 08:49pm

Elheru Aran wrote:I also like the defense guns, I was thinking a bit bigger since they're a bit closer to the engines (or were in the idea I suggested-- more power available, why not make them stronger?)

All they are is anti-fighter guns. I don't want the commander using them offensively, since the entire point of the guns is to protect the hanger, not put it in danger!

but as they are, they're good. Would act very well as hangar defense, and can-- I'm not sure but I presume-- be oriented forwards... that would make a frontal attack much more effective.

They cannot fire forewards, but as I said earlier, it doesn't really matter. Those weapons are about X-wing scale, whereas the TLs are as large as those on an Acclamator. The defensive guns really aren't worth jack shit against anything but fighters and maybe corvettes.

I'm thinking about adding a few missile tubes to fill the gap, though.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2004-03-30 12:39am

The PD gun above the hanger is absolutely icky. Make it go away, please.
Other than that, I love the changes.
About the armament - now that I see what you're intending, I think I can make a suggestion.
You have PD guns that might scratch the paint on a CR-90 and can probably down fighters with one hit, maybe two if its well sheilded. You have...what, 25 or so PD guns? On a ship only 200m long? The Lancer was 250m long and was armed with only 20 quadlasers, and no turbolasers.
Then, you have two medium turbolasers and good sheilding, supposedly enough to face down a corvette group. While perhaps this is an effective design, I would hazard that it would be worthwhile to put in some guns that are midway between the two. Light turbolasers, enough to give midsized craft real trouble without vaporizing them and useful in a defensive manner against other small capital craft.

Say it faces a rather typical pirate group: three midsized armed transports (like the Falcon) and a half-dozen fighters. Those big guns probably aren't maneuverable enough to hit the transports reliably, and you won't ever have the possibilty of taking prisoners or recovering cargo if they can. On the other hand, you have to focus fire from 5-10 of your PD guns to really have an effect on such a ship, which leaves that side open to starfighter attack. A few missiles, a strafing run, and you've lost part of your armament or a scanner. On the other hand, if you concentrate on the fighters first, you leave yourself open to the transports, or you give them the opportunity to get away, considering that they probably weren't intersted in winning this engagement.
I suppose the above ignores the usefulness of your fighters, but I only just thought of it now. Not sure how that affects things.

Really, what you ought to do is take the count down closer to 15, and add in one to three light turbolasers.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-30 02:06am

Alan Bolte wrote:The PD gun above the hanger is absolutely icky. Make it go away, please.

It's already gone. I hated it too.

You have PD guns that might scratch the paint on a CR-90 and can probably down fighters with one hit, maybe two if its well sheilded. You have...what, 25 or so PD guns? On a ship only 200m long? The Lancer was 250m long and was armed with only 20 quadlasers, and no turbolasers.

20 quads vs. 21 duals. Besides, this thing is probably more massive anyway.

Then, you have two medium turbolasers and good sheilding, supposedly enough to face down a corvette group. While perhaps this is an effective design, I would hazard that it would be worthwhile to put in some guns that are midway between the two. Light turbolasers, enough to give midsized craft real trouble without vaporizing them and useful in a defensive manner against other small capital craft.

This is the role that I intend to fill with a few missile launchers. Honestly, I'm teetering on the edge of saying this thing already has too many guns.

A few missiles, a strafing run, and you've lost part of your armament or a scanner.

I just want to point out the inaccuracy of this. Fighters and Falcons are no danger to even patrol craft such as this.

Really, what you ought to do is take the count down closer to 15, and add in one to three light turbolasers.

I'm considering lowering the PD count, it may drop as low as 15. However, the one thing I will not do is add LTLs. Three classes of gun on a ship is really pretty silly on something this size, you need to be at least a Dreadnaught to justify that IMHO. You end up with dangerous dilution of focus, which is precisely what I wanted to avoid with this design.

However as I said before, I may well tack on a dozen missile tubes, which ought to be enough to give medium craft pause.

*EDIT* Dropped the light turret count to 17 and I like it. It will stay that way.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-03-30 04:06am

may i ask where the raytracing is? i first thought maybe the shadows, but they have gradients so it´s probably an area map shadow.

why would you need a raytrace material to make the ship grey?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-30 04:20am

You don't. But if you have flat gray with no shadows, it is difficult to make out detail.

Raytracing is a method of making shadows. I don't know the specifics, but from the name I assume the computer makes a buttload of rays and just traces them to see where they hit things, allowing shadows to be made.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-30 04:25am

You don't. But if you have flat gray with no shadows, it is difficult to make out detail.

Raytracing is a method of making shadows. I don't know the specifics, but from the name I assume the computer makes a buttload of rays and just traces them to see where they hit things, allowing shadows to be made.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-03-30 05:24am

Howedar wrote:You don't. But if you have flat gray with no shadows, it is difficult to make out detail.

sure. but wouldn´t a shadow map be enough. in fact, haven´t you used a shadow map? i think the shadows on your model are soft on the edges and raytraced shadows don´t support soft shadows in max. neither do advanced raytraced shadows.

Raytracing is a method of making shadows. I don't know the specifics, but from the name I assume the computer makes a buttload of rays and just traces them to see where they hit things, allowing shadows to be made.

yes, basicly that´s how raytracing works. raytracing can also be used in materials in order to create reflections, e.g. for a mirror or glass and stuff like that.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-30 05:43am

This is the role that I intend to fill with a few missile launchers. Honestly, I'm teetering on the edge of saying this thing already has too many guns.

Also dont forget a few torpedo launchers.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-30 04:15pm

That's what I just fucking said.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-02 08:53pm

In AD 2101, greebles were beginning

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-03 12:36am

Greebles almost done in that area, missile tubes added. Twelve foreward, four aft (eight per side). Visible in shots 1 and 3. I figure maneuverable missiles means that more tubes than that is unnecessary. After all, they're only for use against midsize freighters and things, not fighters.

Missile tubes are about 3m long, just for comparison. About 3x the size of Slave 1's missiles.

Picture the first
Picture the second
Picture the third

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-03 04:29am

ECHO! ECHO! ECHO! ECHO! ECHO!ECHO!

Body shape modified somewhat, engine area modified (now four new small docking motors and lots of radiator area).

Picture the first
Picture the second

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-04-03 04:45am

So, how long has it taken you from start to where you are now?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-04-03 04:50am

He's been working on it since the afternoon of Sunday 28 March.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-03 04:51am

Two Friday afternoons, more or less.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-04-03 05:07am

Howedar wrote:Two Friday afternoons, more or less.

Yikes. I seem to be the only super-slow 3d artist on this board.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-03 05:09am

Looooots of practice

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-04-03 01:43pm

Looking nice, man. Just a few constructive criticisms.

- Am I correct that that is a shield generator up front? Might look better mounted up top. Remove one of the dishes, and put in a pair, ISD style.

- Possibly put more windows around the bridge area.

Neither of those are incredibly important, but just ideas.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-03 05:41pm

Shield generator? Do you want me to smack you?

Sensor domes.