ST vs SW split

[Crown]

Damn you Dennis! Your time will come I swear it will!

*shakes fist threatingly*

[Ghost Rider]

Damn you Denise! Your time will come I swear it will!

*shakes fist threatingly*

Yeah, yeah girlie man...you shake your fist across the vast ocean

[Crown]

Keep pushing me comic boy and will end horrible for you.

[Ghost Rider]

Keep pushing me comic boy and will end horrible for you.

Sure, sure

[SirNitram]

If they are that powerful, I really don't see the need for a Deathstar.

Why not? Because they can cook an unshielded continent in a few shots? Blasting a planet apart in one shot, through it's shields is far more potent.

[Crown]

Keep pushing me comic boy and will end horrible for you.

Sure, sure

And don't think that I have forgotten about this either.

[playloud]

I think you're missing something that has been the focal point in at least two of the canon movies: Planetary Shields.

I have a question about that. How did the Imperials get onto Hoth with the shield up?

It was a smaller theatre shield, specifically around their base.

Which did not extend to the ground?

[playloud]

I think you're missing something that has been the focal point in at least two of the canon movies: Planetary Shields.

I have a question about that. How did the Imperials get onto Hoth with the shield up?

It was a tactical shield only protecting a 'small area' of the Hoth planet. I mean like; come on! This was Veers talking how could you forget his lines?

I remember the lines...

My lord, the fleet has moves out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.

He says an area around the planet. I took it to mean the area he mentioned was how far outside the planets atmosphere the shield extended. So you are saying the shield was only a small area, and also didn't extend to the ground?

[Solauren]

There are actually several ways to look at that line of dialogue.

1- Bad grammar on the part of the character
(fyi, I personally remember the line as 'We've detected an energy field around an area of the 6th planet of the hoth system.')

2- The shield was dome shaped, and actually extended a little into space.

3- It was a total sphere, but was only strong over the rebel base. Possibly because it was designed so that they could put power into specific sections. They only needed to be able to protect the base, so all power was in the base area.
This would also let the rebels put the shields up and power an area a distance away to deflect asteroids if no Star cruisers were convient to deal with the problem.

Any explaination allows for a landing attempt
In the case of a dome, all you'd have to do is land beyond the dome. We know from 'Phantom Menace' is is possible to walk through a shield in a planetary atmosphere if you are going slow enough. It would not be hard to envision the AT-AT's simply shoving there way through, or even having some kind of method of bypassing shields. We've never seen such a method, or even heard on mentioned, so I'm for the 'shove way through'

Also, even if this was a shield of the 'quality' of the shield from say 'Generations' (pichard couldn't just walk through it) that Soron used to protect himsefl and his Trillithium launcher, a planet like Hoth would no doubt have a very uneven surface. finding cracks in it would not be hard. Hell, making them would not be hard.

Anyway Playitloud...

The reason for the Death Star was planetary shields.
The best way to put it is imagine this

The Empire had 200 Gigaton+ (or even Terraton level, probably terraton level) weapons to deal with the shields on enemy ships. Cool enough. Reasonable enough. That's the shield power a little 2 kilometer battleship is putting to shields.

Imagine the shield capability you could generate on a planets surface with 15 - 20 power stations 10 times that of a star destroyers devoted to keeping it up.

As a matter of fact, the Death Star wasn't the first 'superweapon' of the Star Wars galaxy, it was just the first in a long time.

About 10,000 years prior to the Star Wars saga, there was a man that was using starships equipped with massive accelerator cannons that was loobing asteroids at planets at a high velocity. I believe it was called a Kulamani battlership.

Reading Darth Wongs asteroid collision page, you know what kind of a blast some of those asteroids could have had. Imagine the shielding needed to stop a 100 meter asteroid going at 1/10th the speed of light...

the Kulmani battlerships, even ones tossing asteroids like that, were rendered useless as a terror or strategic weapon by Planetary Shields.

[Rogue 9]

I remember the lines...

My lord, the fleet has moves out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.

Eh, I'm pretty sure he said an area of the 6th planet of the Hoth system...

[PainRack]

In the AOTC ICS Data File entry for the Acclamator-class, it's 200 gigaton weapons are listed as "quad turbolaser turrets". Notice the lack of "heavy".

That doesn't prove anything and you and I both know it. Unless you seriously believe that the quad turbolaser turrets from the Accalamator is equivalent to the quad turbolasers mounted on vessels like the Lancer class frigate.

[nightmare]

In the AOTC ICS Data File entry for the Acclamator-class, it's 200 gigaton weapons are listed as "quad turbolaser turrets". Notice the lack of "heavy".

That doesn't prove anything and you and I both know it. Unless you seriously believe that the quad turbolaser turrets from the Accalamator is equivalent to the quad turbolasers mounted on vessels like the Lancer class frigate.

The Lancer doesn't have quad turbos, just quad lasers. "Heavy" does seem to have a meaning.. but of course it's the volume that matters.

[Darth Wong]

It was a smaller theatre shield, specifically around their base.

Which did not extend to the ground?

I take it you never watched TPM, since that movie handily answers this question?

[Kamakazie Sith]

The Enterprise is a huge ass capital ship. Obi-Wan had a hard time dodging the mines in a starfighter, and he's a Jedi. No, drop the charges in its path and there's not much the Enterprise could do.

He had a hard time? I swear he dodged the blast of the mines with ease but was trying to avoid the debris from the shattered rocks.

[Connor MacLeod]

I have a question about that. How did the Imperials get onto Hoth with the shield up?

It was a tactical shield only protecting a 'small area' of the Hoth planet. I mean like; come on! This was Veers talking how could you forget his lines?

I remember the lines...

My lord, the fleet has moves out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.

He says an area around the planet. I took it to mean the area he mentioned was how far outside the planets atmosphere the shield extended. So you are saying the shield was only a small area, and also didn't extend to the ground?

You can't land troops through full planetary shielding. We saw they landed troops and crossed overland. Anyhow, the "small theatre shield" has support in the EU (IIRC the diameter for the Hoth theatre shield was something like 50 km, or 50 square km, or something like that.)

[The Kernel]

You can't land troops through full planetary shielding. We saw they landed troops and crossed overland. Anyhow, the "small theatre shield" has support in the EU (IIRC the diameter for the Hoth theatre shield was something like 50 km, or 50 square km, or something like that.)

Well, aparently even the best planetary shields have gaps that can be exploited for the purpose of landing troops. Pellaeon mentions as much in The Last Command when he says (I'm paraphrasing here) that according to conventional military wisdom, the best way to subdue a modern world was to land a fast attack force through gaps in the shields and send them to take out the generators. He also says that a large army can be landed as well, even with the shields up.

[Connor MacLeod]

Has a good analysis been done on the asteroid being hit by a torpedo from "Cost of Living"[TNG]?

No, since we dont know the data on the composition for one (density, etc.). In any event, since Data says that a torpedo would not be likely to have any effect, at best it would be an upper limit (and a rathr generous one in the face of Pegasus)

How about the one in "Rise"[Voy]? I have seen some thoughts on other sites, but I was wondering what the view on those specific asteroid shots were.

Is that the one where you're supposed to scale the asteroid diameter relative to the torpedo's glow?

[Connor MacLeod]

You can't land troops through full planetary shielding. We saw they landed troops and crossed overland. Anyhow, the "small theatre shield" has support in the EU (IIRC the diameter for the Hoth theatre shield was something like 50 km, or 50 square km, or something like that.)

Well, aparently even the best planetary shields have gaps that can be exploited for the purpose of landing troops. Pellaeon mentions as much in The Last Command when he says (I'm paraphrasing here) that according to conventional military wisdom, the best way to subdue a modern world was to land a fast attack force through gaps in the shields and send them to take out the generators. He also says that a large army can be landed as well, even with the shields up.

I dont recall anything about shield gaps or this applying specifically to Ukio. Anyhow, if that were the case, why would they bother with Torpedo spheres then?

[Connor MacLeod]

In the AOTC ICS Data File entry for the Acclamator-class, it's 200 gigaton weapons are listed as "quad turbolaser turrets". Notice the lack of "heavy".

That doesn't prove anything and you and I both know it. Unless you seriously believe that the quad turbolaser turrets from the Accalamator is equivalent to the quad turbolasers mounted on vessels like the Lancer class frigate.

How about the fact that the HTL turrets on the Devastator were VASTLY larger than the turrets on an Acclamator (keeping in mind one isa mile long vessel and the other is only 750 meters long)

[Darth Wong]

Well, aparently even the best planetary shields have gaps that can be exploited for the purpose of landing troops. Pellaeon mentions as much in The Last Command when he says (I'm paraphrasing here) that according to conventional military wisdom, the best way to subdue a modern world was to land a fast attack force through gaps in the shields and send them to take out the generators. He also says that a large army can be landed as well, even with the shields up.

And yet the Rebels couldn't get a single squad onto the ground on Endor in ROTJ without stealing an Imperial shuttle and access codes. I'd say your statement must apply only to a crappy planetary shield.

[The Kernel]

I dont recall anything about shield gaps or this applying specifically to Ukio. Anyhow, if that were the case, why would they bother with Torpedo spheres then?

Well a fast attack force can still be neutralized before they reach the generators, and a sizeable ground army would have to cut through entrenched defenders. Pellaeon seemed to think neither option was all that attractive since it didn't allow them the sort of quick takeover, and it rendered the planetary defenses useless until they could be repaired. And yes, I do think this applied to Ukio (although perhaps not to the most heavily shielded planets with multiple overlaps) since he was thinking about it in regards to the Ukio attack they were engaged in.

Torpedo spheres must be quicker, and they can neutralize a section of shield directly over critical targets (shield generators, captial cities) without exposing troops to the danger of a hostile attack force.

[LadyTevar]

Well, aparently even the best planetary shields have gaps that can be exploited for the purpose of landing troops. Pellaeon mentions as much in The Last Command when he says (I'm paraphrasing here) that according to conventional military wisdom, the best way to subdue a modern world was to land a fast attack force through gaps in the shields and send them to take out the generators. He also says that a large army can be landed as well, even with the shields up.

And yet the Rebels couldn't get a single squad onto the ground on Endor in ROTJ without stealing an Imperial shuttle and access codes. I'd say your statement must apply only to a crappy planetary shield.

Which would make sense, considering the resources available to the Rebels and to the Empire. Obviously, the Rebels didn't have the resources to fully shield the Hoth Base, especially since the base was not yet complete. (going by how they were still trying to get the speeders to work, and the rough state of the base itself)

[The Kernel]

Well, aparently even the best planetary shields have gaps that can be exploited for the purpose of landing troops. Pellaeon mentions as much in The Last Command when he says (I'm paraphrasing here) that according to conventional military wisdom, the best way to subdue a modern world was to land a fast attack force through gaps in the shields and send them to take out the generators. He also says that a large army can be landed as well, even with the shields up.

And yet the Rebels couldn't get a single squad onto the ground on Endor in ROTJ without stealing an Imperial shuttle and access codes. I'd say your statement must apply only to a crappy planetary shield.

Ukio was the most important planet in the entire sector and close to Imperial space. Are you seriously suggesting that it had substandard planetary shields?

I have another solution for you. The rebels would have had to get from the landing site outside the shield to the generator building in secret. Because of the security, they might have been worried that the Empire would deploy some sort of anti-repulorlift defenses (such as the predators on Wayland, or maybe an even more advanced security system) which would have left them hiking on foot through who knows how many miles of forest terrain. And they still might have been caught, since the Empire could monitor the shield perimeter with sensors quite adaquately, while they might not be so inclined to do so inside the shield since it would be a larger area and only Imperial ships would be allowed to land.

In order to maintain the secrecy of their mission (remember, if the alarm was raised before the shield was deactivated and the fleet arrived, the Emperor might have escaped) it would make more sense to infiltrate through a hole in security rather than landing on Endor outside the shield and trying to penetrate the theatre shield. Do we have any other evidence that the shield covered ALL of Endor?

[The Kernel]

Well, aparently even the best planetary shields have gaps that can be exploited for the purpose of landing troops. Pellaeon mentions as much in The Last Command when he says (I'm paraphrasing here) that according to conventional military wisdom, the best way to subdue a modern world was to land a fast attack force through gaps in the shields and send them to take out the generators. He also says that a large army can be landed as well, even with the shields up.

And yet the Rebels couldn't get a single squad onto the ground on Endor in ROTJ without stealing an Imperial shuttle and access codes. I'd say your statement must apply only to a crappy planetary shield.

Which would make sense, considering the resources available to the Rebels and to the Empire. Obviously, the Rebels didn't have the resources to fully shield the Hoth Base, especially since the base was not yet complete. (going by how they were still trying to get the speeders to work, and the rough state of the base itself)

We're talking about Ukio here not Hoth. Ukio incidentaly had THIRTY overlapping generators for their planetary shield system, which you wouldn't expect if one could do the entire job, regardless of how expensive it was.

[Ender]

It was a smaller theatre shield, specifically around their base.

Which did not extend to the ground?

I take it you never watched TPM, since that movie handily answers this question?

Hell, ESB answered it, if it didn't extend to the ground the ISDs could have just proceeded far enough ver the planets horizon to hit under the shield through the atmosphere at an angle instead of straight down.


And RISE has been done using constant figures instead of Bobby,s way, IIRC it ended up being ~ 1 MT.


As for the corvettes, as per TPMVD, strikes agaisnt a shield cause a heat spike in the shield generator. Therefore enough lower power strikes can heat up the coolant and generator enough where it has to be shut down or is burnt out, hence why weaker vessels can engage larger vessels and still have a slight chance at victory.