ST vs SW split

[The Kernel]

Here's the quote from The Last Command about the generators btw.

With planetary shields able to hold off all but the most massive turbolaser and proton torpedo bombardment, conventional military wisdom held that the only way to subdue a modern world was to put a fast-moving ground force down at the edges and send them overland to destroy the shield generators. Between the fire laid down by the ground force and the subsequent orbital assault, the target world was always badly damaged by the time it was finally taken. The alternative, landing hundreds of thousands of troups in a ground campaign that could stretch into months or year, was no better.

[SirNitram]

Fact: Planetary shields consisting of overlapping shield segments can still have troops landed through them.

Fact: Troops must fight through entrenched defenders to get to the generators, so they can't simply drop onto the generators.

Theory: There exist points near the edge of each 'section' that are weak enough to allow a ship to pass through.

Of course, such sections will be bristling with antiship cannons aimed at them and masses of troops. Hence it's bloody.

[Ender]

Fact: Planetary shields consisting of overlapping shield segments can still have troops landed through them.

Fact: Troops must fight through entrenched defenders to get to the generators, so they can't simply drop onto the generators.

Theory: There exist points near the edge of each 'section' that are weak enough to allow a ship to pass through.

Inverse square law supports this. The spot furthest from each projector (the center) where the two meet would be the weakest spots.

[Ender]

Fact: Planetary shields consisting of overlapping shield segments can still have troops landed through them.

Fact: Troops must fight through entrenched defenders to get to the generators, so they can't simply drop onto the generators.

Theory: There exist points near the edge of each 'section' that are weak enough to allow a ship to pass through.

Inverse square law supports this. The spot furthest from each projector (the center) where the two meet would be the weakest spots.

damn lack of an edit.

And the volumetric effect and Dalla's covering of that other SD in Darksaber support that inverse square law still applies to shields

[The Kernel]

Fact: Planetary shields consisting of overlapping shield segments can still have troops landed through them.

Fact: Troops must fight through entrenched defenders to get to the generators, so they can't simply drop onto the generators.

Theory: There exist points near the edge of each 'section' that are weak enough to allow a ship to pass through.

Of course, such sections will be bristling with antiship cannons aimed at them and masses of troops. Hence it's bloody.

This fits well with Pellaeon's statement that it wasn't a very desireable option. Possible yes, but not something that would work for a quick strike operation inside New Republic territory (as in Ukio).

I still think though that the argument about a planet-wide shield on Endor is pretty ridiculous. They didn't need one, they had only a single generator (while other planets have always had multiple overlapping generators) and the fact that the Rebels chose to penetrate the shield through a captured ship only proves that it was safer or more desirable in other ways then landing on another part of the planet and going across land to the generator.

[Crown]

I still think though that the argument about a planet-wide shield on Endor is pretty ridiculous. They didn't need one, they had only a single generator (while other planets have always had multiple overlapping generators) and the fact that the Rebels chose to penetrate the shield through a captured ship only proves that it was safer or more desirable in other ways then landing on another part of the planet and going across land to the generator.

That doesn't exaclt jive with confirming the assumption that they could have penetrated the shield without the codes 100% though.

Consider this; say that you don't need the 'captured Imperial shuttle and codes' and you could very easily sneek in. This would be advantageous for a few reasons;

For example if you do use the codes to get in, you are automatically by default on their radar screens, sort of speak. You just submitted a request (along with a flight plan), as soon as you deviate from it you risk the chance of being blown up to atoms, and/or (assuming you survive the actuall landing) you are now on the run because they know you were coming.

The fact that the Rebels managed to successfully pull it off, means that they were able to hide their ship from imperial scanners and sensors once inside Endor.

If this is true, why bother with the codes? Why not just sneak in through the cracks? It would remove one of the dangers of the codes not being up to date, or when you deviate from your flight plan.

The only plausible answer is because the shield was an effective barrier to ships who didn't have clearance.

[Rogue 9]

Either that, or they just had limited time for hiking. Perhaps they just needed to be closer to the generator than the shield would allow if they wanted to reach it and destroy it in a reasonable time frame for the fleet to have it down when they arrived.

But it would make so much more sense to just get inside and blast the dish from the shuttle. Lambdas are armed, right?

[SirNitram]

We could always consider the possibility that the Tyderium wasn't as big as assault ships. The ones we saw land on Naboo were huge, the ones to carry AT-ATs would have to be huge, Acclamators are huge. It may be that bigger ships can penetrate from greater power.

[Crown]

We could always consider the possibility that the Tyderium wasn't as big as assault ships. The ones we saw land on Naboo were huge, the ones to carry AT-ATs would have to be huge, Acclamators are huge. It may be that bigger ships can penetrate from greater power.

Perhaps ... the quote the Kernel provided talks about dropping off assault ships 'on the edges' of a shield ... who has a screen grab of RotJ? I don't think there were any 'edges' ...

[playloud]

If the Hoth shield extended all the way to the ground, then the AT-AT's either walked through, in the same style as TPM, or the landing ship flew in through the shield and dropped off the AT-AT's inside the shield, and they walked the rest of the way to the generator. Either scenario asks why a Star Destroyer could not fly through the shield (even if it had to go to a weak point), and blast Echo Base with Turbolasers. The rebels obviously did not have enough firepower to take out a Star Destroyer flying low to the ground (they couldn't even hurt an AT-AT). The ion cannon seemed to only point high over the horizon. If it was capable of aiming lower, they should have used it on the AT-AT's.

[Sarevok]

Star Destroyers can not enter atmoshpere.

[Rogue 9]

And the ion cannon can't depress low enough to fire at ground vehicles, but that says nothing about vehicles just inside the shield, even if a Star Destroyer could enter the atmosphere and expect to get out again. (They can always enter atmosphere; the difficulty is flying it in there and getting it the hell off the planet once its there.)

[Lord of the Farce]

Moving through ground-based shields seem to require three conditions:
-The object moving through must be grounded (ref. TPM & TESB).
-The object moving through must be fairly slow (ref. TPM).
-The object moving through must be fairly small (notice how the droids do not attempt to have their tanks skid on the ground to move through the shield, ref. TPM).

[The Kernel]

That doesn't exaclt jive with confirming the assumption that they could have penetrated the shield without the codes 100% though.

Consider this; say that you don't need the 'captured Imperial shuttle and codes' and you could very easily sneek in. This would be advantageous for a few reasons;

For example if you do use the codes to get in, you are automatically by default on their radar screens, sort of speak. You just submitted a request (along with a flight plan), as soon as you deviate from it you risk the chance of being blown up to atoms, and/or (assuming you survive the actuall landing) you are now on the run because they know you were coming.

The fact that the Rebels managed to successfully pull it off, means that they were able to hide their ship from imperial scanners and sensors once inside Endor.

If this is true, why bother with the codes? Why not just sneak in through the cracks? It would remove one of the dangers of the codes not being up to date, or when you deviate from your flight plan.

The only plausible answer is because the shield was an effective barrier to ships who didn't have clearance.

Or that the edges were patrolled better than inside the shield. It makes sense, especially if any penetration at the point of the shield perimeter would register to the shields operators.

[nightmare]

-The object moving through must be fairly small (notice how the droids do not attempt to have their tanks skid on the ground to move through the shield, ref. TPM).

Refuted, unless you consider AT-ATs and SPHAs fairly small.

[Lord of the Farce]

-The object moving through must be fairly small (notice how the droids do not attempt to have their tanks skid on the ground to move through the shield, ref. TPM).

Refuted, unless you consider AT-ATs and SPHAs fairly small.

Refuted... only if you happen to think that one of the Gungan's portable shields is the same size as the one used by the Rebels at Hoth. Relatively speaking, AT-ATs and SPHAs are smaller than the battle droids at Naboo.

[nightmare]

-The object moving through must be fairly small (notice how the droids do not attempt to have their tanks skid on the ground to move through the shield, ref. TPM).

Refuted, unless you consider AT-ATs and SPHAs fairly small.

Refuted... only if you happen to think that one of the Gungan's portable shields is the same size as the one used by the Rebels at Hoth. Relatively speaking, AT-ATs and SPHAs are smaller than the battle droids at Naboo.

Pretty much anything is small using that distinction.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Pretty much anything is small using that distinction.

That's what she said!

(I'm sorry, I'm so so sorry... It had to be said. )

[Darth Wong]

Don't you love this Trekkie "if SW really had this ability (even though we've seen it) then they should be able to ..." logic?

If they were to apply that logic evenly to Star Trek, then most of Treknology would be thrown out the window.

[RedImperator]

One question: if the shield on Endor didn't envelop the entire planet, why couldn't the Rebels have simply bombarded the ground around the shield perimeter and let the ground conduct the heat to the generator? If Mon Cal cruisers are even remotely comparable to ISDs in power, they should have enough firepower to conduct a localized BDZ in a reasonable time frame. Granted, the presense of the Death Squadron might have prevented this as events actually unfolded, but it was never even considered as a fallback plan if the commando team failed.

[The Kernel]

Don't you love this Trekkie "if SW really had this ability (even though we've seen it) then they should be able to ..." logic?

If they were to apply that logic evenly to Star Trek, then most of Treknology would be thrown out the window.

Uhhh, what exactly are you referring to?

[The Kernel]

One question: if the shield on Endor didn't envelop the entire planet, why couldn't the Rebels have simply bombarded the ground around the shield perimeter and let the ground conduct the heat to the generator? If Mon Cal cruisers are even remotely comparable to ISDs in power, they should have enough firepower to conduct a localized BDZ in a reasonable time frame. Granted, the presense of the Death Squadron might have prevented this as events actually unfolded, but it was never even considered as a fallback plan if the commando team failed.

That's a good point, although you'd think that the Rebels would have issues with sterilizing an entire world, especially one with sentient life, regardless of how important it was to them. The EU paints the Rebels as hopelessly high-minded and a BDZ might have seemed an abhorent operation to them at the time.

Note that this isn't a very good answer to the question, but we are stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If Endor did have a shield that covered the entire planet that was also strong enough to ward off any bombardment AND could cover the Death Star II, then it is a technology far greater then ever demonstrated in the EU. So we are left with either throwing out half of what the EU says about planetary shields, or we have to assume the Rebels were moronically moral.

[The Kernel]

Okay, I have had another thought about the Endor shield. Let's assume for a second that it WAS planet wide and it was done by a single shield projector. Now, when we consider how completely overpowered most planetary shields are (it takes days for hundreds of ships to bring them down) perhaps the Death Star designers at Endor felt that instead of putting in a standard shield to protect against bombardment by massive fleets, they simply put in a strong enough generator (let's say 5x that of a standard one) that would cover the entire planet and the DSII, therefore being immune to covert invasion (we can assume that although assault ships CAN break through weak points in the shield, it would show up as stress on the shield and the alarm would be sounded).

Now a shield like this would be able to hold off most anything the Rebels could throw at them, which was all they needed since the DSII was not going to be permanately positioned at Endor. And even if the Rebel fleet could eventually punch through it, it might take such a long time that the Imperial Fleet might eventually be able to send help (since their original plan was a quick strike mission and they wouldn't have to be exposed for long).

[RedImperator]

They wouldn't have to BDZ the entire moon, just the area around the shield. And Endor is lost anyway--they have to know detonating the DSII in low orbit is going to cause a mass extinction.

Here's a thought: perhaps Endor was covered with a full scale planetary sheild network, with one specialized generator to project it around the DSII.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Coruscanti shield segments interlocked quite efficiently. Nothing penetrated without fully deactivating a segment.

The Slave II had her stabiliser sheared off and was only saved from total destruction due to her shields being up, and this was after a selected gap between segments was closed (had been open for the Starlight Intruder to get through) at Byss.

Also, shield rims as of X-Wing: Rogue Squadron, tend to absorb turbolaser fire, and bleed-off excess energy into the ground.

Personally, I don't see how Ukio's shield could've been consistent with other examples; perhaps she lacked a full deflector shield, instead using large Hoth-type shields over important regions, figuring the Empire couldn't afford to lose the planet.